My conversation with Riot support guy

SexyTaylorSwift·Nov 25, 2014·149 votes·20,729 views

"Can I know what I was chat restricted again for? I was definitely not toxic during my games." "Correct, you were not toxic." "Then why am I being chat restricted?" "Because your penalty is adjusting to you account health." "But you said that my health is improving. If that were the case, why is my penalty twice as large as the first one?" "Your penalties are adjusting to the level of you account. From what I can see, your account health is improving." "Again, if the health of my account is improving, and my penalties are adjusting to my account health, then why am I receiving more harsh penalties?" "We cannot go into detail."

What the actual fuck support guy?

Edit: Woohoo!! Lyte and Boourns to the rescue to actually tell me the reason.

137 Comments

AdgharKHNov 25, 201437 votes

Upvoting if only for the hilariousness of the conversation.

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 25, 20144 votes

I would find it funny if it wasn't me lmao. Been at this for almost 3 weeks and still no answer.

Rew711Nov 25, 201419 votes

I up voted because this is how I think Riot does a lot of explanations.

Thunder DreamssNov 25, 20149 votes

It really is. I had problems getting LoL to install recently and contacted support. I managed to work around the patcher's "limitations" and got the game working.

Support got back to me saying the problem was my internet connection. I explained that the problem was their installer/patcher and explained the steps I had taken to deal with it.

Support responded by asking me to do some network diagnostics. I went ahead and did so, sending them the results and telling them again that the network wasn't the problem.

They elevated my support request to the next level where they wanted me to run some script* on my computer. I packaged up LoL logs like the script would have done and sent them back to support with a link to where I documented my fix on the boards.

There as some more back and forth but you get the idea. I'd hate to be stuck in a position where I actually needed help from support. If I hadn't fixed the patcher myself I'd still be getting the "check your internet" runaround.

. * The script makes several system settings changes it doesn't clean back up, packages up some personal info and LoL log to send back to support, and installs all outstanding OS updates. I didn't really want to send the personal info or muck around undoing random changes so I just packaged up the LoL logs myself.

RiotboournsNov 25, 201435 votes

That seems weird. I'll poke Lyte and see if there's more we can share. I'll forward this to player support as well. Whether you deserve another chat restriction or not, we can be better at communicating with you. Note: the eye of sauron is now upon you, I hope you didn't embellish your exchange. ;)

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 25, 20144 votes

COUCH COMMANDO November 14, 2014 17:46 Hi again,

It appears that the punishment is adjusting to the health of your account. I do see that your behavior is improving.

JOSH23STEWART November 14, 2014 18:18 If my behavior is improving, and the punishment is adjusting to the health of my account, then why is my punishment going up?

COUCH COMMANDO November 16, 2014 16:56 Hi again,

Our system will look at where you are at, where you need to be, and what needs to be done to help you get there. There are several factors involved when deciding how to punish an account after an extensive audit is performed. I am afraid I can not go into further detail than that.

This was my actual experience. I left out the mumble jumble that had nothing to do with the post on account that nobody wants to read a bunch of fillers like "continue to follow the summoners code blah blah" lol.

ZashirNov 25, 20144 votes

Oh oh! Can I be watched, too?

That way, I'll never be alone again...

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 25, 20144 votes

Lol, he got me all nervous now!

RiotboournsNov 25, 201418 votes

Sorry your conversation was confusing, we're still working with player support on how to communicate these new player behavior systems. When I was looking into your account it looked like you had a spike in toxicity right after your received your first chat restriction. IMHO immediate feedback is always better (and one of the reasons why we have behavior alerts). Right now, we can't give you another restriction while you are serving an existing one. A good improvement would be to allow chat restrictions to increase while you're being restricted. This would let you know that you still need to improve and not seeing that message would give you confidence that you're getting better. I'll bring it up if we revisit the system.

BTW, I absolutely know how frustrating the game can be sometimes, and one thing I struggle with is how to talk about mistakes we've made constructively. Also, I often find that "mistakes" come from us not being on the same page about what we're doing. Keep in mind that your teammates are other, imperfect, human beings who are probably already frustrated by the mistakes they made. I know my first reaction when I make a mistake is to be defensive and try to blame someone else (the jungler, obviously) or the situation (that adc has a plat border!), or maybe I'll blame you if you offer me some unsolicited advice. I try to keep that in mind when talking to other players. We all want to win, we all want to play well, but mistakes happen.

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 26, 20144 votes

Hello, thanks for the feedback. I see that you say there was a spike in toxicity right after I received my first restriction. Can I get any insight as to what that was? I really didn't think that I had any toxicity during my chat restricted games, and this was what lead me to further investigate the issue. I feel like it may have been defending players that were being ridiculed for being bad. I do call players out that do this and tell them not to smurf if they are going to harass bad players because they are just learning the game. I do not remember harassing anyone for being bad, though. The problem that I am now running into is not knowing whether that is the reason I was banned. If it was, I fear that I may get more restrictions because I did not know that defending a teammate against verbal abuse is bannable. If I do get told that this is the reason I am restricted, I would be more than willing to not do it.

I do appreciate you giving me that answer, though. Even if I disagree with it, which I cannot comment on that without knowing the rational behind the ban, I at least have a reason as to why you guys did what you did. So for that I thank you. I don't understand how this original guy can sit and say that he looked into my account and that I was not toxic if you are saying I was.

RiotLyteNov 26, 201413 votes

Hey, bouurns is right, we're still working on refining the system and the clarity around chat restrictions isn't great yet. When the new Tribunal comes back, you'll actually get updated "Reform Cards" each time you get a penalty so you can see exactly what led to your punishment. These Reform Cards include chat logs and game stats for the games that contributed to the penalty. We're currently working hard to bring that system back online ASAP.

In your particular case, it looks like right after your first set of chat restrictions you were tagged for a string of verbal abuse. For example, you called players "baddie," or used phrases like "CALM THE FUCK DOWN FFS." There's simply better ways to communicate the same things, and to a bystander it looks like you (and the other player) are just getting more and more heated over the course of the game. There are a lot of other examples but I think you get the idea. These types of behaviors are low to moderate toxicity which is why you got a few more chat restrictions added to your set instead of something more severe like a game ban.

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 26, 20142 votes

Thanks! I remember these lol...and as I suspected, they were against so called "smurfs" that were harassing new players. Hence me telling them to "calm the fuck down" when he is going on and on about how bad X player was lol. At the time, I was unaware that this could get me banned. I thought since I was defending a player that was taking the brunt of it, that I wouldn't get banned for it. Now I know and will try to refrain from doing it in the future. Thank you both for actually taking the time to give me insight into my penalty, rather than just saying I didn't do anything wrong and was still working off previous penalties.

MathbalnaseNov 26, 20141 votes

Yeah, seems like it might be best to not speak up in game even in defense of other players, if your doing so would include the use of anything at all resembling profanity, insults, harassment, etc. I know I've said similar things in game before, and apparently have just been lucky not to get reported (enough?) for it to be an issue.

Just mute, report, and move on.

I really miss the tribunal. At least I had a decent understanding of how that thing worked, even if that was 'at the whim of the community'.

FatedTitanNov 26, 20144 votes

Hey, bouurns is right, we're still working on refining the system and the clarity around chat restrictions isn't great yet. When the new Tribunal comes back, you'll actually get updated "Reform Cards" each time you get a penalty so you can see exactly what led to your punishment. These Reform Cards include chat logs and game stats for the games that contributed to the penalty. We're currently working hard to bring that system back online ASAP.

In your particular case, it looks like right after your first set of chat restrictions you were tagged for a string of verbal abuse. For example, you called players "baddie," or used phrases like "CALM THE FUCK DOWN FFS." There's simply better ways to communicate the same things, and to a bystander it looks like you (and the other player) are just getting more and more heated over the course of the game. There are a lot of other examples but I think you get the idea. These types of behaviors are low to moderate toxicity which is why you got a few more chat restrictions added to your set instead of something more severe like a game ban.

That's all he said? I deal with worse than that every other game in Ranked.

PurdrewDec 14, 20143 votes

Oh no he said "baddie"!??! What a fucking monster! I'd probably piss my pants if he were in my game that toxic fuck!

disregardableNov 25, 20147 votes

That's just how the system works. Get worse and worse punishments until you're permabanned and need to get a new account, giving Riot more money. Yay. :D

Joey MontagueNov 25, 20144 votes

That's just how the system works. Get worse and worse punishments until you're permabanned and need to get a new account, giving Riot more money. Yay. :D

Well, when you get permabanned, you lose everything in your account and can't transfer it over to a new account. So like one of my friend's friend spent $1,000 on champs and skins - if his account were permabanned they would all go poof.

I'm pretty sure Riot isn't trying to exploit people for RP though. They're just trying to keep the 8-14 year olds who play this game from seeing: "**** **** **** *** all over my *** **** *** with your **** *** and my **** *** omg I want ot *****"

Argomecha PerdixNov 25, 20149 votes

I'm pretty sure the ones that thrash-talk the most are those 8-14 year olds.

Artillery MageNov 25, 201412 votes

League of Legends is still a "free-to-play" game. You don't have to give Riot anything to unlock all champions / runes ... not sure why I have to explain this to you.

BaculusNov 25, 201423 votes

Time is a finite resource.

MrBuffingtonNov 25, 20146 votes

And time is money. Boom

Lord FrogberryNov 25, 20143 votes

Loads of people buy skins for their main accounts. I'd even say most of them do. You lose all of that if your account is banned.

PryotraNov 25, 20147 votes

Seems legit. =P

Killer X 12Nov 25, 20147 votes

"We cannot go into detail"

Idk what the fuck is going on

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 25, 20144 votes

I believe what is going on is that it is an automated system that they don't look at, but don't want to admit it. So when it fucks up, they avoid answering you lol.

CoolKnightSTNov 25, 20146 votes

What they really want to say: Let's say you recieved 500 chat restrictions but you only recieved 100. So you behavior is improved but the system just now finished all the calculations to give you all 500. So now you are improved you lost let's say 100 of them. You still had 400 in the first place.

W.o.w. it's the delay. That's why you get that strange result.

AK47WOLFNov 25, 20145 votes

Here is a crazy revelation. When you send in a support ticket about something completely asinine and infinitely subjective, their ability to help you is going to be limited.

Thunder DreamssNov 25, 20143 votes

Have you ever contacted player support? Every time I've tried I've ended up fixing my own problems because they take so long and even when the do get back to you they just give you the runaround.

FOOKING PrawnsNov 25, 20145 votes

I've been banned for calling intentional feeders "toxic" and "idiots" (because they were of course shit-talking the entire time as well).

When I asked why this is bannable, they said "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

So if someone comes up to you and punches you in the face and spits on you, you just sit there and smile right? No, I'm going to defend myself.

And yeah it took me nearly 2 weeks to get a non-automated answer from Riot as well. I filed 2 seperate tickets asking for a reform card and never got it. The only worse customer service I've ever had to deal with other than Riot is WB's games who make you fill out a 3 page support ticket and then just don't reply at all.

Edit: It's only a matter of time before I get permabanned I think, as I just played with a Pantheon who, for no apparent reason other than maybe our Zed going 0/9/1 (lol), started intentionally feeding and giving the enemy team dragons (tried to solo it despite seeing the Rift Scuttler ward right there). I said "wtf? why?" and I think in Riot's view that's bannable. He reported me at the end for "negative attitude" lol.

FaustianHeroNov 25, 20142 votes

Hello, and welcome to the definition of a false analogy. People playing poorly in a game (even if intentionally) are not assaulting you. You are not defending yourself, you're verbally abusing them.

The point of self-defense is to protect oneself, but in what situation has calling someone an "idiot" ever improved anyone's behavior? Maybe it only serves to escalate tensions?

You may want to consider how you would react to being called an "idiot".

FOOKING PrawnsNov 25, 20143 votes

Hello, and welcome to the definition of a false analogy. People playing poorly in a game (even if intentionally) are not assaulting you. You are not defending yourself, you're verbally abusing them.

The point of self-defense is to protect oneself, but in what situation has calling someone an "idiot" ever improved anyone's behavior? Maybe it only serves to escalate tensions?

You may want to consider how you would react to being called an "idiot".

So when they not only verbally assault me but actively ruin the game for me, I have no right to be angry?

LOL ok. By the way, I'm pretty comfortable with myself so some random kid on the internet calling me an "idiot" doesn't phase me, and anyone who's secure with themselves shouldn't care either.

RiotboournsNov 26, 20145 votes

I appreciate the sentiment here. Defending other players is a noble goal. Keep in mind that smurf probably got reported in that game as well. For myself, I always try to diffuse the situation in game and I want to avoid escalating the situation. It's not always possible, but when I see negativity like that I want to try to get us back on track to thinking positively/constructively, trying to win, and breaking the cycle of blame.

CuixNov 26, 20143 votes

Pretty sure you replied to the wrong post

Stealth PandaNov 26, 20144 votes

Can you give my account a look? My support guy response was just as weird if not more. The support ticket didn't help. I appealed for my loss of season rewards. It was just a short paragraph, not like an essay. Guess what my response was?

The support guy explained to me WHY I GOT A RANKED RESTRICTION (cuz my account was audited blah blah blah ect...). What the Fu-ck? I have NEVER GOTTEN a rank restriction before and I DO NOT have one right now. CLEARLY he didn't even look at my support ticket.

But on the other hand. could this be a mistake? Could riot think that I got rank restrictions ect, when I never did, and therefore thinking Im most toxic of the toxic ones (When im actualy positive all season but messed up 2 weeks before season end due to retaliation against death threats/sexism insults ect), taking my season rewards away? Do you mind looking into my account? Please, and thank you for your time.

My Question was basically:

Lyte have said that players who show reform will still get season rewards. I got some chat restrictions at the START of the season and after that, I was neutral/positive in all my games therefore not getting any punishment, including bans, ALL season.

I realized that I just lost all my season rewards today. I am asking for a chance for you guys to re-look at my punishment. Please, I have never been banned before and always encouraged teamwork/diffuse conflicts within teammates when I see them. I am not a toxic person in real life, but I had a bad week A FEW WEEKS ago and got some SERIOUS insults in game towards me including death threats, just because I was doing badly in game. So I basically just lost it and insulted them back. I SINCERELY apologize for what I did and the next time, I will just mute them WITHOUT saying anything.

I was really happy and looking forward to the ranked rewards that I've put many hours into. It's my fault that I messed up near the end of season, but I hope that you guys will give me another chance on this considering how neutral/positive I was for the majority of the season, as well as all my games after the season ended. Together, lets make my favourite game's community a better place.

Thunder DreamssNov 26, 20141 votes

Someone getting reported after the game doesn't help in the here and now. If I see someone being effected by harassment I'd rather give a jab or two to the rager to change the target of their anger to myself then wait and report afterwords. Better to have them attacking me who doesn't care then someone who's more sensitive to that kind of thing.

Joey MontagueNov 25, 20142 votes

CRs will go away if you just not say anything and continue to play games. After 3 rounds they should be permanently gone as can be seen from numerous posts throughout NA and EUW

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 25, 20142 votes

According to Riot janitor that somehow got access to support tickets, that is wrong. They are not automated and re-evaluated after each restriction lol.

FluxBoundNov 25, 20142 votes

but sometimes stupid people report you for "not communicating"

BoompenguinsNov 25, 20142 votes

The Tribunal doesn't do anything about those posts though, so it really doesnt matter.

CarniverousNov 25, 20142 votes

Bump:

Yeha, the heck? Like really? Is he paid to be miss leading?

TAYL0R SWIFTNov 25, 20142 votes

Upvote for T.Swift!

TotalwanabeNov 25, 20142 votes

most technician are low level one are basically reading a script with pre determinated error and solution list. Sometime they drop on the right one other time they just make you waste your time and even worsen the problem. If you know how to read and know a little about computer just do google search and good chance you will find a solution before the tech department respond to your request.

RiotboournsNov 26, 20142 votes

I haven't seen the system in action myself, but that is what behavior alerts are supposed to do. The gist of it is that we tell you when you've gotten an unusual number of reports from a game. I think it's not always immediately after the game though. It also doesn't tell you about every single report you get. On the upside, if you haven't seen it, you're probably an upstanding member of our community!

Behavior Alert FAQ Link

AdgharKHNov 26, 20142 votes

In your particular case, it looks like right after your first set of chat restrictions you were tagged for a string of verbal abuse. For example, you called players "baddie," or used phrases like "CALM THE FUCK DOWN FFS."

Those are so weak they don't even deserve a report, let alone a chat ban

Not everyone comes from a background of military or high-octane sports, so not everyone is able to "deflect" insults and verbal abuse as easily as others. Some people have these things called "feelings," and no, it's not being a wuss or girly or emotional to have them, or to have them hurt during a multiplayer game. Why do you think there have been masses and throngs of people clamoring for more action against toxicity and for the Tribunal to be reinstated? The Tribunal was successful because the majority of people agreed on what constituted toxicity, including excessive use of "baddie" etc.

You baddie.

WullfNov 26, 20142 votes

this a helpful thread.

I also sometimes try to calm all down with "Shut the fuck up and play" in different variations "stfu and play", "shat yer traps and play" etc.

But that is only if there is message in chat every few seconds and I see my teammates standing in one place focusing on typing.

I guess I should better watch my keybord. that little evil thing with letters on it.

OJ191Nov 25, 20141 votes

"Can I know what I was chat restricted again for? I was definitely not toxic during my games." "Correct, you were not toxic." "Then why am I being chat restricted?" "Because your penalty is adjusting to you account health." "But you said that my health is improving. If that were the case, why is my penalty twice as large as the first one?" "Your penalties are adjusting to the level of you account. From what I can see, your account health is improving." "Again, if the health of my account is improving, and my penalties are adjusting to my account health, then why am I receiving more harsh penalties?" "We cannot go into detail."

What the actual fuck support guy?

At a guess, I'd say it means basically

Account health was -50

You only got the penalty for -10 because for some retarded reason penalties are delayed while the system adjusts to you or some shit

Account health improved to "only" -30, so your penalty increased to -30

jQueryNov 25, 20146 votes

Correct, you were not toxic.

End of story. The next thing the support should say:

"I'm very sorry. Let me see if I can correct the error"

There is no need for math in this. It should be clear and simple ;

You** Did **impose an inappropriate experience for other players - "u need something to remind u that that was unnecessary and did not help anyone".

You** Did NOT **impose an inappropriate experience for other players - "enjoy ur game without any bull from our side".

CuixNov 26, 20143 votes

That is true, if they'd said OP wasn't toxic. However, that line (like the rest of the conversation as posted originally) is entirely fabricated.

CaptnJakSparrowNov 25, 20141 votes

Meanwhile, I get free ip boosts. You must be doing something wrong there, fido.

SexyTaylorSwiftNov 26, 20142 votes

Well, to be fair, I am not the one that is saying I am not doing something wrong. I merely asked for the reason I was restricted again. Support guy is the one that said I wasn't doing anything wrong lol.