Seriously armor is fcking useless

Lets have shrex·Jul 5, 2018·117 votes·21,545 views

There was already and now you added Conqueror dealing true damage + dealing true damage and literally an "adc" dealing more %hp magic damage than attack damage. Why on earth would you do this

179 Comments

Fízz v2Jul 5, 201821 votes

Why on earth would you do this

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ig4W9L5wdII/maxresdefault.jpg <--

The Space CowboyJul 5, 201813 votes

Patch 9.1: true armor is introduced lol

SpongebobIsLifeJul 6, 20185 votes

Riot would like to know your location.

Zed geniusJul 5, 201812 votes

Ur trolling right?

Warlord RhinarkJul 5, 2018102 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-05T14:58:43.856+0000)

Ur trolling right?

I don't really know if I trust a Zed player when it comes to deciding the usefulness of armor.

Zed geniusJul 5, 20188 votes

all I know is that a serrated dirk(1100 gold) makes you ignore 7 armor, while a cloth armor(300 gold) gives you 15 armor

TrollmanshipJul 5, 201826 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:05:40.229+0000)

all I know is that a serrated dirk(1100 gold) makes you ignore 7 armor, while a cloth armor(300 gold) gives you 15 armor

[zombie-brand-facepalm] Might want to try reading the tooltips next time to see what your items do then.

Zed geniusJul 5, 20184 votes

uhhh, not sure I get what you're trying to say

TrollmanshipJul 5, 201823 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:11:09.179+0000)

uhhh, not sure I get what you're trying to say

You've never noticed you hit harder after buying a dirk?

Warlord RhinarkJul 5, 201849 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:05:40.229+0000)

all I know is that a serrated dirk(1100 gold) makes you ignore 7 armor, while a cloth armor(300 gold) gives you 15 armor

First off, the armor pen Dirk gives is based on level. It can give you up to a total of 10 armor pen at level 18.

Second off, Dirk also gives 25 AD and a 40 bonus damage on your next spellcast after killing a unit.

By no means does Cloth Armor counter Dirk.

Zed geniusJul 5, 20186 votes

It counter's dirk's lethality, not dirk in a whole. Also how many times have you been level 18 with just a dirk in lane phase?During lane phase a dirk ignores half of cloth armor's armor.The 25 ad is something you get obviously, and so is the +40 dmg on attack after csing,but this is a post saying armor is useless, and all I say is that a cloth armor with 300 gold completely negates dirk's pen

Who Fed RuJul 5, 201811 votes

don't even try to bother arguing.

In reality 2 item 1029 into item 3191 already counter early Lethality items hard which can even be proven by math, but hey, Armor is useless I guess.

bbQsauçeJul 5, 201810 votes

[deleted]

Who Fed RuJul 5, 20185 votes

Don't forget that it even has stacks and goes up to 45 Armor, and builds into item 3157 , which is the hardest counter to any Assassin.

"BuT iT hAs MoRe CD ThAn zEdS uLt!!! iTs UsElEsS"

Every time I hear that argument, I wonder how this dudes even got into Silver, because the concept of playing safe for like ~40 seconds and not positioning like a retard isn't familiar to them.

koshkyraJul 5, 201821 votes

40 seconds?

zed ult cooldown at rank 3 is 60 seconds. with the easy 40% cdr you get from lethality items, it is 36 seconds.

zhonyas cd is 120 seconds. it cannot be reduced by items.

120-36=84. 84 seconds, not 40.

the concept of playing safe for like 40 seconds

is nearly a full minute of time you have to waste just to not die to someone you've already bought an item to survive against.

not positioning like a retard

yep, I was totally positioned bad when I was 2 screens away from zed and then he crossed it in 2.5 seconds with W+ item 3142 +ult.

IllabetheJul 5, 20186 votes

I'm not apt to agree with Zed..... but....

There's no non AP equivalent item, that gives armor + AD, and the armor items don't relatively stop assassin builds, because they still do their normal AP damage in a Lethality item vs Armor world (after armor cancellations) reliably enough and early enough to get item 3071 item 3033 which DOES make armor useless.

Who Fed RuJul 5, 20183 votes

If you go for these 2 items, you have far more damage against full tanks than before, but you still need multiple combos and many autoattacks to take down a tank as Zed, and during that time no one is on the targets you should focus.

Armor isn't useless just because it can be heavily reduced, even if your enemy goes for armor reduction items that's a heavy tradeoff for them.

IllabetheJul 5, 201810 votes

There's really not.

Full Armor pen builds can get armor down from 300 to 30. They legitimately do almost true damage at 4-5 item builds. At that point the only real saving grace is to use a teammate's sacrifice to kill them on cooldown, or catch them in cc as they round an unwarded corner.

A full build Zed can shred 80% of a tank's HP in one non ult combo. And then they can wait on cooldowns to come back up, and finish the other 20%.

Who Fed RuJul 5, 20184 votes

lul put a DrMundo with one Armor item against Zed and let me see the 80% in one combo.

I really want to see that.

IllabetheJul 5, 20186 votes

Depends if he has Ult up or not. Ofc he can live if Grievous wounds only reduces his R heal from 100% to 60%. That's still a huge recovery.

Don't quote the exception. You know that every single other tank will take the damage.

Who Fed RuJul 5, 20184 votes

Chogath Nautilus Malphite Ornn Rammus Sion

I never saw any AD Assassin ever taking 80% of these champs HP, unless

he is super ahead
they went full AP.

LordGeovanniJul 5, 20185 votes

This is not an exception Dr Mundo is still taking that damage he is just healing it back up as he is taking it. which in mundo chunks himself when he activates ult you are more likely to kill him if he does it when he is supposed to at low hp because of it. He would have to preemptively ult at which point you could just not commit as zed

TheCheekySneakJul 5, 20183 votes

I mean, GA is an AD/Armor item now. It even gives you a revive.

AmocJul 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I mean, GA is an AD/Armor item now. It even gives you a revive.

The revive is grossly overrated. Sometimes it's useful, sometimes it's useless (worse actually). Given that nobody (even the tanks) survive long these days, by the time your GA goes through its 4s revive, most of your team might be dead already.

IllabetheJul 5, 20183 votes

It's a FULL item. The components do not have a hybrid stat.

2800g vs 1100

Also, as a finished item Zhonya's is FAR more useful than GA. 45 Armor vs 40. 75 AP vs 40 AD. 10% CDR vs No CDR.

TheCheekySneakJul 5, 20183 votes

{quoted}

It's a FULL item. The components do not have a hybrid stat.

2800g vs 1100

Also, as a finished item Zhonya's is FAR more useful than GA. 45 Armor vs 40. 75 AP vs 40 AD. 10% CDR vs No CDR.

Oooooh, that's what you meant. Sorry, figured you only meant that there wasn't one at all. Well then you're absolutely correct.

AmazoXJul 5, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:14:50.300+0000)

First off, the armor pen Dirk gives is based on level. It can give you up to a total of 10 armor pen at level 18.

Second off, Dirk also gives 25 AD and a 40 bonus damage on your next spellcast after killing a unit.

By no means does Cloth Armor counter Dirk.

item 3191 is 1100 gold that counters the lethality item 3147 + item 3142 fully at level 18 & even way more during early & mid game.

Yeah, armor totally sucks.

Warlord RhinarkJul 5, 201839 votes

{quoted}

is 1100 gold that counters the lethality + fully at level 18 & even way more during early & mid game.

Yeah, armor totally sucks.

You're ignoring the literal 110 AD plus the bonus damage from Nightstalker.

NaymlissJul 5, 201813 votes

No, seekers actually makes it so lethality items deal 0 damage to you, including removing their ad and passives. Duh.

YumaS2AstralJul 6, 20184 votes

{quoted}

No, seekers actually makes it so lethality items deal 0 damage to you, including removing their ad and passives. Duh.

Yes, but the problem is not lethality alone

it is when you combine it with other sources of armor penetration

Lets have shrexJul 5, 20187 votes

[deleted]

Zed geniusJul 5, 20186 votes

Oh look a person that has no actual evidence backing up their statement so they try and dodge the explanation.

Warlord RhinarkJul 5, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:08:13.849+0000)

Oh look a person that has no actual evidence backing up their statement so they try and dodge the explanation.

Well.

Your second most played champion according to OP.GG is Yasuo so he's not wrong.

Source: http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Zed+Genius

Zed geniusJul 5, 20189 votes

I didn't say he is wrong, but that's literally the only thing he has supporting his opinion? That's not how a discussion works.I could copy paste my elo and say that I am right because of it, but I am not doing it because I have some human decency in me as well as basic conversation skills

Warlord RhinarkJul 5, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:15:28.398+0000)

I didn't say he is wrong, but that's literally the only thing he has supporting his opinion? That's not how a discussion works.I could copy paste my elo and say that I am right because of it, but I am not doing it because I have some human decency in me as well as basic conversation skills

Well I didn't say his opinion was more valid than yours.

I was just stating that what he was saying was, in fact, true.

Fízz v2Jul 5, 201815 votes

The problem isnt Zed or lethality tho, the problem is Conqueror making armor almost completely worthless. I remember going full armor today and a Trynd with 0 armor pen still easily melted me through item 3047 item 3076 item 3110 item 3067 kek

AmazoXJul 5, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2018-07-05T16:08:34.946+0000)

The problem isnt Zed or lethality tho, the problem is Conqueror making armor almost completely worthless. I remember going full armor today and a Trynd with 0 armor pen still easily melted me through kek

Video.

Fízz v2Jul 5, 201811 votes

Aight https://puu.sh/ARoe9/0b77b51403.webm
https://puu.sh/ARnbU/957ac28d27.webm Guess I havent finished FH in the first one but still. Also lets discuss his damage, not my Ornn skills in the first clip, I was tilted because Conqueror exists xd

Fermi ParadoxJul 5, 20185 votes

Everyone complaining about how useless ADCs are.

Meanwhile....this guy.

Lets have shrexJul 5, 201843 votes

{quoted}

Everyone complaining about how useless ADCs are.

Meanwhile....this guy.

The only people saying adcs are useless are biased adc mains who can't handle not being the shining star of the game anymore

AmazoXJul 5, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lets have shrex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:15:15.152+0000)

The only people saying adcs are useless are biased adc mains who can't handle not being the shining star of the game anymore

They lost their unbalanced BPS at 15 minutes that only required a CLICK to deal 500-700 damage.

ApollyonBainerJul 5, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lets have shrex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Enw7djV7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-07-05T15:15:15.152+0000)

The only people saying adcs are useless are biased adc mains who can't handle not being the shining star of the game anymore

Adc still do damage. But they need to be able to farm in order to afford items to do that damage. They arent getting spoon-fed anymore. Do you think people like sneaky are complaining about the current state of Adc? Probably not cuz at that level they have the skill to to realize the gold they need to take in to be relevant

FlashesJul 5, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Everyone complaining about how useless ADCs are.

Meanwhile....this guy.

It's not even ADCs that can abuse the lack of usefulness of Armor. It's only Assassins. A typical ADC should be able to 1v1 any given tank simply by auto-attacking regardless of how much armor a tank has, simply because ADCs have range at their disposal. Assassins rely on the lack of usefulness of armor and abuse it, hence why Zed is such a busted lil butthole right now.

AmazoXJul 5, 20186 votes

{quoted}

It's not even ADCs that can abuse the lack of usefulness of Armor. It's only Assassins. A typical ADC should be able to 1v1 any given tank simply by auto-attacking regardless of how much armor a tank has, simply because ADCs have range at their disposal. Assassins rely on the lack of usefulness of armor and abuse it, hence why Zed is such a busted lil butthole right now.

item 3191 this 1100G item will fully counter the lethality of item 3142 2900G + item 3147 2900G even at level 18 & way more before level 18.

Stop trolling.

Lets have shrexJul 5, 201814 votes

{quoted}

this 1100G item will fully counter the lethality of 2900G + 2900G even at level 18 & way more before level 18.

Stop trolling.

Not like item 3142 item 3147 have AD linked to them + cdr + extra damage on love when people pretend that "armor counters lethality" when they don't take in consideration the AD itself.

bbQsauçeJul 5, 20182 votes

[deleted]

ĘsdeathJul 5, 201811 votes

+55 attack damage +10% cooldown reduction

UNIQUE Passive: +18 Lethality

UNIQUE Passive – NIGHTSTALKER: After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack against an enemy champion deals 30 - 200 (based on level) bonus on-hit physical damage and Slow icon slows by 99% for 0.25 seconds. The enhanced attack lasts 5 seconds after being seen by an enemy champion.

[and more...]

The last aforementioned passive mixed with the stats is definitely NOT worth 2900 gold. I mean, most people pick this item because they are just delusional, as you stated. Should I mention how much you can abuse that passive to your advantage when you don't have Duskblade's third passive (BLACKOUT), and always get to know if a bush is either warded or not at the cost of absolutely nothing?

The only statement in your reply that I agree with is the part about Yoummu's - It is NOT worth the 2900g.

nGioJul 5, 20183 votes

A large reason why ADCs are useless is because no one is playing tanks anymore. Tanks are absolute shit atm. I haven't seen a tank in the jungle in 2 months. ADCs bring a lot more use when they're chipping down tanks with a LW, but no one needs ADCs or tanks when there's this much true damage or assassins who can 1 shot anything with a heartbeat.

AmazoXJul 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A large reason why ADCs are useless is because no one is playing tanks anymore. Tanks are absolute shit atm. I haven't seen a tank in the jungle in 2 months. ADCs bring a lot more use when they're chipping down tanks with a LW, but no one needs ADCs or tanks when there's this much true damage or assassins who can 1 shot anything with a heartbeat.

Tanks haven't been shit since Armor penetrating items nerfs.

nGioJul 5, 20186 votes

Yeah, you're right. It must be all those tanks that I see in every lane now, all with Electrocute. I haven't seen a tank in the jg in 2 months, but they're op as shit, and you're the only one who knows about it. I get that you're still bitter about tanks being too strong a few years ago, but give me a fucking break man. We are in a fast meta, tank items are too expensive and too conditional, and the rune rework heavily favors damage. With the exception of Sej after her rework, tanks were shit last season too. This season they're a troll pick.

We need some equality here, because damage dealers running down a lane into other damage dealers in a race to see who's Electrocute goes off first shows how poorly the game has evolved.