Reminder number idk anymore since everyone been bitching about it since forever

Lets have shrex·Jul 7, 2018·49 votes·11,770 views

shuts down any mage midlane but doesn't do shit gives free stats and a huge shield if you take damage and you can still attack during it makes you into a stasis and the enemy can just wait for the stasis to end so he can finish you is used on 2 champions in the entire game because it doesn't provide anything useful to most AP champions is a WoA with 30% damage reduction

AD champions been bitching became an AP item, got released AD champions been bitching is too strong, got released and is free in runes

So now can we have an equivalent of for AP champions at least ? You even said "lol fuck you AP now double hexdrinker in runes too".

Here's my proposition. Make Hexdrinker the same way as passive and rename it as "Adaptative" someshit

First adaptative stat : amount of the shield scales with your ad / ap depending which one is the highest (not huge scaling, block max 200damage) Second adaptive stat : highest type of damage you received will procc the shield into either a shield blocking physical or magic damage and gives either 20armor or 10mr (only when the shield proccs, no static stat on it) Third stat : gives either 20 AP or 15 AD adaptative Price : 1600 golds

Boom an interactive item that would actually makes sense and not favor a class over another.

59 Comments

Evil Bisex PlantJul 7, 201829 votes

I would buy Adaptative someshit every game on every champion if it's called this.

MythPuppyJul 8, 20183 votes

"Don't worry, I've got my final item. they're finished!" "Oh no... is he building what I think he's building?!" "FUCK! HE'S GOT AN ADAPTIVE SOMESHIT!"

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJul 7, 201813 votes

Deaths Dance isn’t damage reduction, it’s traded upfront damage for damage taken later.

Rathar DashingJul 7, 201819 votes

That's true, but the healing you get from the item essentially mitigates the extra damage you would take later. It also gives you an extra few seconds to survive a burst combo that would otherwise be fatal.

It Hertz When IPJul 7, 201815 votes

But it isn't damage reduction. The distinction is REALLY important.

Yets4240Jul 7, 201818 votes

Technically it is damage reduction.

That 1k incoming burst hits you for 700. That's 30% instantaneous damage reduction.

You will then take a dot over several seconds equal to the 30% damage that was reduced, but note just from the set up of the situation, the damage you take is actually 30% of incoming burst - hp regen over 3 seconds.

If you had exactly 1k hp, and 5 regen per 5 (super low stats, most champions by the time they have 1k hp have noticeably more regen) and took 1k damage without Death's Dance, you're flat out dead at t=o.

With Death's Dance damage reduction alone, and no healing at all, you will live, with 3 hp at t=3s.

To pretend that no damage reduction occured is folly, if it didn't you would have died instantaneously in this scenario. Just because you'll take 1/3 of the mitigated damage as an additional DoT each second for 3 seconds does not mean the instanteous damage reduction was not applied. To say that it isn't damage reduction misconstrues how the passive actually works, as it most certainly IS damage reduction and is even coded as a 30% damage reduction to all incoming hits.

Yes, you will eventually take damage equal to this reduction, that does not invalidate the reduction (and all the effects of said reduction) this has. For example, if you do 1k physical damage with 20% lifesteal, you would heal for 200 health, would you not? But now, say you deal "1k damage" to a target with Death's Dance? You actually only deal 700 in the first hit, and heal for only 140-- notice, a full 60 hp less, or 30% less healing; you also will not heal for the damage Death's Dance does to them as a DoT, effectively losing out on 30% of the healing you should be able to do.

People who say it isn't damage reduction do not know what they are talking about, and are simply confused on the matter.

In the first example, you would need to deal 1430 total damage before Death's Dance's damage reduction to instantly kill them; a full 43% more damage required. Yeah, totally isn't damage reduction at all. That would be crazy talk.

Rathar DashingJul 7, 20181 votes

When people say it's not damage reduction, they mean it's not a simple take 30% less damage item, like a Phantom Dancer or an Adaptive Helm. They mean it's an item with "pseudo-damage-reduction" or damage-delay. This has obvious benefits of course, but is not the same as pure damage reduction like you'd get from an Alistar ultimate.

KFCeytronJul 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Technically it is damage reduction.

That 1k incoming burst hits you for 700. That's 30% instantaneous damage reduction.

You will then take a dot over several seconds equal to the 30% damage that was reduced, but note just from the set up of the situation, the damage you take is actually 30% of incoming burst - hp regen over 3 seconds.

If you had exactly 1k hp, and 5 regen per 5 (super low stats, most champions by the time they have 1k hp have noticeably more regen) and took 1k damage without Death's Dance, you're flat out dead at t=o.

With Death's Dance damage reduction alone, and no healing at all, you will live, with 3 hp at t=3s.

To pretend that no damage reduction occured is folly, if it didn't you would have died instantaneously in this scenario. Just because you'll take 1/3 of the mitigated damage as an additional DoT each second for 3 seconds does not mean the instanteous damage reduction was not applied. To say that it isn't damage reduction misconstrues how the passive actually works, as it most certainly IS damage reduction and is even coded as a 30% damage reduction to all incoming hits.

Yes, you will eventually take damage equal to this reduction, that does not invalidate the reduction (and all the effects of said reduction) this has. For example, if you do 1k physical damage with 20% lifesteal, you would heal for 200 health, would you not? But now, say you deal "1k damage" to a target with Death's Dance? You actually only deal 700 in the first hit, and heal for only 140-- notice, a full 60 hp less, or 30% less healing; you also will not heal for the damage Death's Dance does to them as a DoT, effectively losing out on 30% of the healing you should be able to do.

People who say it isn't damage reduction do not know what they are talking about, and are simply confused on the matter.

In the first example, you would need to deal 1430 total damage before Death's Dance's damage reduction to instantly kill them; a full 43% more damage required. Yeah, totally isn't damage reduction at all. That would be crazy talk.

Zed ult takes time to pop, so, given hp regen, it basically heals his enemy. Buff Zed. Right?

Also, the DoT can interfere with combat status, channels, etc.

That passive serves its purpose of helping people survive burst, from mages as well as AD assassins.

SwiftKitten88Jul 7, 201812 votes

{quoted}

Zed ult takes time to pop, so, given hp regen, it basically heals his enemy. Buff Zed. Right?

Also, the DoT can interfere with combat status, channels, etc.

That passive serves its purpose of helping people survive burst, from mages as well as AD assassins.

right becuase it donest help vs the ap assassins?

do u have ANY idea how fucking broken that item is vs Nidalee ?

if not let me explain it to you.. the majority of the damage in nidalee kit come from her takedown.. which is AFTER she throws the spear AFTER she pounced in an AFTER she used swipe to get you as low as possible. so her takedown.. which does bonus damage based on the % hp you are missing. allows her to get the execute on low hp targets... u know.. like assassins are SUPPOSED to do in the first place and not be 100/0'ing people.

instead that damage from her spear is reduced by 30%. and the damage from her pounce and her swipe... so by the tim her takedown hits... possibly a second or a quarter of a second later. (because unlike AD assassins nidalee not only cant "kill you un less than a quarter of a second but ALSO need to land a SKILLSHOT to kill you)

so by the time takedown hits.. they still haven't taken about 20-25% of the damage they normally would havem from said combo.

which in turn mean by the take the damage from takedown is applied it the still have 20-30% MORE HP than they WOULD have had without having item 3812 .. so not only is reducing takedown damage by 30% as well as the rest of her kit.. but MOST of the damage on takeodown wont even be applied AT ALL. becuase they never hit that lower HP threshole to empower takedowns damage even more.

so ANYONE that says item 3812 is not "damage reduction" is a complete moron.

if somone lives from item 3812 not only are they not dead. me as a squishy ap champion... are stick in melee range... with no escape.. no abilities in melee form with ever ability on cooldown.

and u think thats FAIR?

EVERY time i go in i have to make a choice... if i go in.. can i make it out?

now we have Pyke and Urgot 's rework.. saying its not "damage reduction" when thier looking at you going..." ummm they havent taken the damage yet... i cant ulti them..." wtf u do want me to do?

ITS DAMAGE REDUCTION.

it maybe be damage reduction with a clause that says "you will take this damage later over three seconds" (i originally typoed that as "three seasons" which ironically, is how it feels. when they turned around and killed you in return in half a second because your didn't kill them and in doing so healing off the damage that would have kill them).

but its still DAMAGE REDUCTION.

and it NEEDS to be lowered back to to 15% becuase thirty is ABSURD

KFCeytronJul 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

right becuase it donest help vs the ap assassins?

do u have ANY idea how fucking broken that item is vs ?

if not let me explain it to you.. the majority of the damage in nidalee kit come from her takedown.. which is AFTER she throws the spear AFTER she pounced in an AFTER she used swipe to get you as low as possible. so her takedown.. which does bonus damage based on the % hp you are missing. allows her to get the execute on low hp targets... u know.. like assassins are SUPPOSED to do in the first place and not be 100/0'ing people.

instead that damage from her spear is reduced by 30%. and the damage from her pounce and her swipe... so by the tim her takedown hits... possibly a second or a quarter of a second later. (because unlike AD assassins nidalee not only cant "kill you un less than a quarter of a second but ALSO need to land a SKILLSHOT to kill you)

so by the time takedown hits.. they still haven't taken about 20-25% of the damage they normally would havem from said combo.

which in turn mean by the take the damage from takedown is applied it the still have 20-30% MORE HP than they WOULD have had without having .. so not only is reducing takedown damage by 30% as well as the rest of her kit.. but MOST of the damage on takeodown wont even be applied AT ALL. becuase they never hit that lower HP threshole to empower takedowns damage even more.

so ANYONE that says is not "damage reduction" is a complete moron.

if somone lives from not only are they not dead. me as a squishy ap champion... are stick in melee range... with no escape.. no abilities in melee form with ever ability on cooldown.

and u think thats FAIR?

EVERY time i go in i have to make a choice... if i go in.. can i make it out?

now we have and 's rework.. saying its not "damage reduction" when thier looking at you going..." ummm they havent taken the damage yet... i cant ulti them..." wtf u do want me to do?

ITS DAMAGE REDUCTION.

it maybe be damage reduction with a clause that says "you will take this damage later over three seconds" (i originally typoed that as "three seasons" which ironically, is how it feels. when they turned around and killed you in return in half a second because your didn't kill them and in doing so healing off the damage that would have kill them).

but its still DAMAGE REDUCTION.

and it NEEDS to be lowered back to to 15% becuase thirty is ABSURD

Hey Boards, I found the one person complaining that damage is too low these days!

...Because they can't instagib with a champ that also has poke, mobility, waveclear, and a heal!

Thee Pie ManJul 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Technically it is damage reduction.

That 1k incoming burst hits you for 700. That's 30% instantaneous damage reduction.

You will then take a dot over several seconds equal to the 30% damage that was reduced, but note just from the set up of the situation, the damage you take is actually 30% of incoming burst - hp regen over 3 seconds.

If you had exactly 1k hp, and 5 regen per 5 (super low stats, most champions by the time they have 1k hp have noticeably more regen) and took 1k damage without Death's Dance, you're flat out dead at t=o.

With Death's Dance damage reduction alone, and no healing at all, you will live, with 3 hp at t=3s.

To pretend that no damage reduction occured is folly, if it didn't you would have died instantaneously in this scenario. Just because you'll take 1/3 of the mitigated damage as an additional DoT each second for 3 seconds does not mean the instanteous damage reduction was not applied. To say that it isn't damage reduction misconstrues how the passive actually works, as it most certainly IS damage reduction and is even coded as a 30% damage reduction to all incoming hits.

Yes, you will eventually take damage equal to this reduction, that does not invalidate the reduction (and all the effects of said reduction) this has. For example, if you do 1k physical damage with 20% lifesteal, you would heal for 200 health, would you not? But now, say you deal "1k damage" to a target with Death's Dance? You actually only deal 700 in the first hit, and heal for only 140-- notice, a full 60 hp less, or 30% less healing; you also will not heal for the damage Death's Dance does to them as a DoT, effectively losing out on 30% of the healing you should be able to do.

People who say it isn't damage reduction do not know what they are talking about, and are simply confused on the matter.

In the first example, you would need to deal 1430 total damage before Death's Dance's damage reduction to instantly kill them; a full 43% more damage required. Yeah, totally isn't damage reduction at all. That would be crazy talk.

"Technically" Yes, it AT THE TIME reduces the damage, however overall and as the item it is, it's not damage reduction. It buys you time to get heals and etc, but it's not like armor. You don't "lose" that damage, it still happened/is going to happen.

Damage reduction as most know it as, is actually preventing damage from happening from an amount that has been inflicted. This doesn't "prevent" as much as mitigates it for a short time. This should be known as a Damage Mitigation item instead.

It's useful, but it really isn't damage reduction as most people see it, it's not confusion as much as incorrect terminology being applied to the item in question in the first place and people fighting over the definition while everyone understands the benefits and cons of such an item.

I'd much rather have a 30% damage reduction item, as would most; I'd say. Which is why there's arguments happening.

Again I'm not saying there's no benefit to that 30% being taken and then reapplied as per your example, but 'initial reduction' shouldn't really be classified as "Damage reduction" because it's not actually changing the value. It's like a loan of health, you have to pay it back; it has no interest which makes it the best loan. But most people would just want the money free to begin with/30% never needing to be payed back.

Yets4240Jul 8, 20185 votes

Except for in the example I gave, and in any other case similar, it functions exactly like damage reduction. You only heal for the damage the initial hit does, which is 30% less than what it would otherwise be. Abilities that increase their damage based on the damage you do during their duration factor in the initial hit at 70% its value due to Death's Dance's "total-not damage reduction."

It's coded as damage reduction. It IS damage reduction. It just has extra steps.

Imagine a burst shield that slowly decays over 3 seconds like Sterak's passive or something. Say it shields for 1000 to start, scales down to 0 after 3 seconds to keep it nice and simple. Now, it would be wrong to call that a 3 second 1,000 damage shield perhaps, but it's worth pointing out that it can block 1,000 damage initially. I know its not the strongest comparison, but when the item in many cases functions exactly like damage reduction to the point where the initial effect is virtually and entirely indistinguishable from damage reduction, it truly makes more sense imho to realize that it is damage reduction, and that item 3812 then has an additional damage over time component to offset how broken the item otherwise would be.

Thee Pie ManJul 8, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Except for in the example I gave, and in any other case similar, it functions exactly like damage reduction. You only heal for the damage the initial hit does, which is 30% less than what it would otherwise be. Abilities that increase their damage based on the damage you do during their duration factor in the initial hit at 70% its value due to Death's Dance's "total-not damage reduction."

It's coded as damage reduction. It IS damage reduction. It just has extra steps.

Imagine a burst shield that slowly decays over 3 seconds like Sterak's passive or something. Say it shields for 1000 to start, scales down to 0 after 3 seconds to keep it nice and simple. Now, it would be wrong to call that a 3 second 1,000 damage shield perhaps, but it's worth pointing out that it can block 1,000 damage initially. I know its not the strongest comparison, but when the item in many cases functions exactly like damage reduction to the point where the initial effect is virtually and entirely indistinguishable from damage reduction, it truly makes more sense imho to realize that it is damage reduction, and that then has an additional damage over time component to offset how broken the item otherwise would be.

Except not, healing damage that is dealt isn't damage reduction, it's damage that's done and then healed. You're not reducing anything like I said you're MITIGATING it. Reduction would imply it gets rid of it completely. You're not lessening the damage, you're lessening the blow AT THE TIME which is entirely different. Which is why it's not damage reduction like armor.

If armor gives you 30% damage reduction from a 100 auto, that means only 70 damage hits. Which means you reduced 30 damage.

In the case of death's dance the value is STORED and then re-utilized as true damage later in a True damage DoT (1/3rd) 33.3%~ of the damage done/sec over 3 seconds. That is not reduction that's mitigation.

" Stores 30% of all physical and magic damage received, and is taken as damage over time true damage instead, dealing one-third of the stored damage every second." - Quoted from the Wiki.

That means it ALL comes back eventually, regardless of how you want to twist it. Healing the damage doesn't make it go away, because that health could have gone towards that 70% you lost in your example if it had been armor that blocked 30%, but in this case the healing has to heal 100% of the amount, just not all at once which is not reduction in the end, but mitigation.

So if a user with death's dance had 100(1000) damage done to them, they take the 70(700), and then immediately applied is the additional 30(300) broken up into 3 seconds. meaning you get 10(100) damage almost immediately after and then 20(200) additional damage broken up over the next two seconds. The damage is STILL going to happen, you just don't take as much initially which is why it's different than reduction. It's not coded like reduction at all it's a stored value, that's reapplied.

Yets4240Jul 8, 20181 votes

Read what I actually said, and actually look at the specific example I had given before and that I am referencing here initially instead of talking completely past it because, well, I don't even know why. Did you respond to the wrong one of my comments perhaps?

You're completely missing the point that the damage dealer doesn't get lifesteal for the true damage dot being dealt, so they lose out on 30% of their lifesteal.

That DoT damage is not connected to the initial hit except that its value is calculated off of it.

People do not heal for that damage, or get any other benefits they would otherwise or normally get from that damage. It does not count as damage they dealt to you, but simply damage you took. This is a hugely important distinction that I have two comments, three now with this one discussing that you are completely talking past. Read what I'm saying, or reply elsewhere where that isn't being discussed.

SwiftKitten88Jul 8, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thee Pie Man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NrBY6ZF,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2018-07-08T00:55:09.041+0000)

Again I'm not saying there's no benefit to that 30% being taken and then reapplied as per your example, but 'initial reduction' shouldn't really be classified as "Damage reduction" because it's not actually changing the value. It's like a loan of health, you have to pay it back; it has no interest which makes it the best loan. But most people would just want the money free to begin with/30% never needing to be payed back.

just ganna throw this out there

you literally have a "im not going to pay it back option" in the heal built into deaths dance.

it literally SYNERGIZES with ITSELF.

and your also missing the entirely point of.

you need 143% fatal damage to burst someone down through it.

meaning... if u use your whole kit.. to do that and thier not dead.

THEY ARN'T FUCKING DEAD, PERIOD!!!

for the exact second. they took 30% less damage..

do u have ANY idea how long THREE SECONDS IS? in this game during a fight??? MOST people die in LESS than 2 seconds.

deaths danace wouldn't BE an issue. if it took 5 seconds to die in the first place.

becuase if said players goes in on you and u wold have died within 1 second (and I'm being generous when i say 1 second with the start of damage creep)... then u just lived THREE TIMES LONGER. becuase the damage to do was REDUCED.

having the damage delt later does NOT mean the damage INITIALLY dealt was no REDUCED.

and maybe if people took 5-10 second to die.. it wouldn't MATTER.. but people DON'T take 5-10 seconds to die... they die INSTANTLY.

and the fact that they are now alive for three more second.. which btw is PLENTY of time to get say ONE FREAKING ATTACK OFF which would be amount to COMPLETELY negate the bleed damage over the next three seconds to make them live.

it is DAMAGE REDUCTION.

it does MATTER if you take the damage later. the fact that YOU DIDN'T TAKE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

#MEANS IT WAS REDUCED.

SwiftKitten88Jul 7, 201812 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thę Weeknd XO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NrBY6ZF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-07T15:48:00.310+0000)

Deaths Dance isn’t damage reduction, it’s traded upfront damage for damage taken later.

its burst damage reduction, meaning you need to deal 143% fatal damage to burst them through it. the same item also has an even MORE broken form of life leech which means they can not only surive the burst, then then heal off the damage that would have killed them by killing you in return because u just blew your entire kit on them, and the only reason u escape after that is because they're DEAD.

Bob the ToastrJul 7, 20186 votes

I'm still salty that AD champs get 16 different forms of lifesteal (not actually 16): item 3144 item 3153 item 3812 item 2140 item 3139 item 3074 item 3072 item 1053

And AP champs get only one, and even that they have to buy into AD which most can't use. item 3146

Remind me why again AD champs get sustain and mages don't? I'm still salty WoA got removed, I used to first buy it on Rumble way back when.

IceAYonJul 8, 20181 votes

cause there are mages that can kill you from a range without needing to be close along with range CC to help them with that. Probably the reason.

Bob the ToastrJul 8, 20185 votes

Because ADC's don't have both range and ranged CC

Ashe Ult and slows Caitlyn Traps and Nets Draven Stand aside Jhin Root Jinx Chompers and Zap Kalista Rend and Ulti Quinn Knockback + blind Tristana Knockback Varus Root and slow Vayne Knockback (+conditional stun) Xayah Root

For the sake of levity I just listed ADCs with hard crowd control but there are many others with slows and such.

IceAYonJul 8, 20181 votes

So what is the difference between mages and marksman, besides the fact mages are abilites-based and AP and marksman are autoattacker and AD?

How come mages can mid lane better than marksman?

Bob the ToastrJul 9, 20182 votes

Not 100% sure on this but I would guess that mages do better in midlane and marksmen do better in bot lane is due to how they scale.

ADC's primarily scale with gold; ability levels aren't quite as important to them because they focus primarily on auto attacks.

Mages on the other hand, scale more with levels in abilities, because they focus on using their abilities, not their autoattacks.

2Charmnot2CharmJul 8, 20189 votes

Remind me why again AD champs get sustain and mages don't?

Because of this stupid champion Vladimir

remakoroJul 8, 20183 votes

Which actually didnt do shit for him. He still has stupid amount of heals and he still has access to external healing.

2Charmnot2CharmJul 8, 20184 votes

They were removed before Vlad's rework.

Edit: Never mind Will of ancients was removed in the same patch Vlad got his update lol

InfernapeJul 8, 20183 votes

Vladimir.

GrãñðmãstêrShãçøJul 7, 20184 votes

I wholeheartedly agree, because im tired of being shutdown by a fucking zed and yasuo 24/7

Rathar DashingJul 7, 20183 votes

Which two champions are you refering to? I take item 3146 on TwistedFate and Kaisa

AtmosphereJul 7, 201814 votes

Your specific choices don't represent the most common usage. The only champions that commonly take it are Katarina and Akali.

Rathar DashingJul 7, 20182 votes

I was just asking a question. I like those items on those champs. No idea why I'm getting downvoted for asking for clarity.

Lets have shrexJul 7, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NrBY6ZF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-07T16:18:18.231+0000)

Which two champions are you refering to? I take on and

Akali Katarina

Beacon AcademyJul 8, 20181 votes

Does Leblanc not take it anymore?

Or have I been out of the loop for too long?

Lets have shrexJul 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NrBY6ZF,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-08T05:37:07.853+0000)

Does not take it anymore?

Or have I been out of the loop for too long?

Nah, her burst is instant now. She used to buy it because her burst was delayed, and for a short duration she didn't deal damage at all and alos synergised well with her old AoE Q waveclear (really good sustain), hence the need of it. I've seen a few Leblanc buying it, but now they either go item 3152 or no hextech item at all

HungryAngry2SPPJul 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NrBY6ZF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-07T16:18:18.231+0000)

Which two champions are you refering to? I take on and

item 3146 Rakan

Rathar DashingJul 7, 20183 votes

Holy sh*t you're a genius

jocomotionJul 7, 20183 votes

item 3812 : it’s not damage reduction if you’re going to take the damage eventually anyway.

SwiftKitten88Jul 7, 20185 votes

{quoted}

: it’s not damage reduction if you’re going to take the damage eventually anyway.

if we both have guns. if i shoot you in the leg and say "im good going shoot you in the head and u will be dead in three seconds" unless you shoot me back first"

are you still dead? or did u shoot me back?

its damage reduction

[COMMENT THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE CONSTRUED AS AN ENCOURAGEMENT TO SELF-HARM REMOVED - ULANOPO]

IceAYonJul 7, 20186 votes

The passive of Bleed effect is damage delay.

Damage reduction means you take less dmg overall.

If you take one auto attack without Death Dance, the dmg is instant.

If you take one auto attack with Death Dance, the same amount of dmg comes later in 3 seconds.

Plus, if they shoot back, Death Dance has life steal, so it is a sustain item, not a dmg reduction item.

jocomotionJul 8, 20181 votes

Thank you. You commented back before I got the chance lol.

Also, a better analogy would be two people shoot each other in the stomach, one dies immediately from shock while the other dies after bleeding out for three seconds. In both cases you’re dead.

Yets4240Jul 8, 20184 votes

For that to apply you'd need a lot longer to bleed out and you'd also have to have some readily available bandages and be near a hospital, cause item 3812 also gives you omnivamp to sustain through whatever damage you take to help you survive as well.

jocomotionJul 8, 20181 votes

Ok, so a few things 1: at this point you’re complaining about the lifesteal than the actual item alone

2: DD does physical damage healing only, it won’t heal off of magic or true damage. The only items to give oknivamp in the game is item 3146 and item 3156 (Realized as I’m writing this, but that means you’re metaphorically shooting yourself in the foot by buying the new item 3031 and item 3812 )

3: it literally ticks for 3 seconds, like it’s literally in the item description so no you wouldn’t have a lot longer to bleed out.

My original statement was that deaths dance does not grant damage reduction. And I will elaborate since it seems people don’t understand what I mean.

Death’s dance will not make you take less damage. It delays damage but it does not mitigate it. It rewards players for continuously fighting and pushing through the pain rather than running off with their tails between their legs. And yes it can save your life in a fight but so can literally every other lifesteal item. item 3072 : more lifesteal and a shield (that ironically enough does actually reduce damage you take) item 3153 : grants better lifesteal on auto attacks and has an item active that lets you run away and kite more effectively item 3139 : I really hope I don’t have to explain why this one saves lives item 3074 : Grants AOE sustain on auto attacks at 50% efficiency.

DD’s great for a dueling item but is terrible when you’re behind (since you sticking around to fight would be suicide when behind).

KFCeytronJul 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

if we both have guns. if i shoot you in the leg and say "im good going shoot you in the head and u will be dead in three seconds" unless you shoot me back first"

are you still dead? or did u shoot me back?

its damage reduction

also.. if your responce is "im dead"

then please... stay that way...

League of Headshots

Beacon AcademyJul 8, 20181 votes

If you are damaged and deal physical damage to heal the amount you would have lost, is that not a mitigation of the damage overall?

jocomotionJul 8, 20181 votes

No, because if you take 70 damage with the other 30 being dealt over time and heal 30 exactly you still take the 100 damage, you just also happened to heal an additional 30, giving you a total of 70 health after the trade. But correlation is not causation.

If it where actual damage reduction that usual 100 damage shot would take only 70 damage and and if you where to heal then you’d have only lost a net total of 40 health

It’s not reducing damage you take so it’s not damage reduction. You could heal more, you could heal less, you’re auto could be dodged or you could run away without attacking, but no matter what you’ll take the 100 damage.

I hope I’m explaining this simply enough.

LeetriJul 8, 20182 votes

It's not, cause you're still gonna take that damage even if you heal. I'll simplify it to show why. ¤ Say you're at 1000 HP. You take 300 damage, but your lifesteal healed you for 100. You end up at 800 HP. ¤ With 30% damage reduction you only take 200 damage and drop down to 800 HP, but you still lifesteal for 100 so you're up to 900 HP. ¤ With Death's Dance you take 200 damage first then 100 damage over 3 seconds. You heal for 100 HP from your lifesteal. You end up at 800 HP.

So you still take the same amount of damage, nothing is reduced, but you're given time to heal if you can.

SpongebobIsLifeJul 7, 20182 votes

seekers doesn't do ish? an 1100 g item effectively counters all the lethality from 2 core assassin items and it doesn't do ish?

ok.

wildfox99Jul 7, 20185 votes

item 3155 counter an entire champion kit and all his items

SpongebobIsLifeJul 7, 20181 votes

and seekers does the same thing lol you guys are all so close sighted.

Yets4240Jul 8, 20184 votes

No it fucking doesn't. The fact that you think armor being negated by lethality somehow makes assassins worthless is so simplemind and ignorant I can barely make sense of it.

You are a damage champion, with abilities and passives that do and give you damage, and passively even more damage, and then some more damage with some mobility thrown in. Before you even buy those lethality items, you have more innate damage than most other champs. But wait, assasssins don't actually scale off of lethality in any way, shape nor form. No, what they actually scale off of is AD, which every single lethlaity item gives, and CDR which hey guess what? Is on lethality items as well. Oh and don't forget being immune to wards, passively, and one shotting wards, traps, control wards, etc as well, oh and free resetable burst damage that scale off AD that this item also gives you. Oh and what about an ability shield, or massive movement speed on demand? Those are what assassins actually need.

And guess fucking what? Even with the unholy, ungodly, unstoppable item 3191 FULLY STACKED It. . . doesn't actually remove any of that at all from you. In fact, with runes, you'll have more lethality than the armor that item provides at up to 56-- and you'll still have over 6,000 gold worth of AD, CDR, and actives/passives AND YOUR ENTIRE KIT AND EVERY OTHER ITEM, AND ALL THE DAMAGE FROM YOUR RUNES AND EVERY OTHER SOURCE YOU HAVE EXACTLY UNLIKE WHAT THE PERSON ABOVE YOU WAS LITERALLY TALKING ABOUT.

Like, are you specifically trying to miss the point utterly and be as obtuse as possible? Or is your view on this game really that twisted and warped?

SpongebobIsLifeJul 8, 20181 votes

the op said that hexdrinker shuts down mages mid lane whereas seekers doesn't do ish. I am saying that this is bs and those are the two items im comparing. Unless you are already feeding or you're getting camped, it's very difficult for an assassin to snowball off of you unless you really just mess up. That 1100g really makes it difficult for an assassin to snowball, as until he gets to a 3rd lethality/pen item, you are effectively countering what it is that allows ad assassins to do the damage that they do, armor penetration. And generally, unless the assassin has really roamed and picked up kills, by the time he gets to the 3rd item, you are more useful then he is.

I am both a mage and assassin player, and think that people really do not realize how much of a cockblock seekers plus some defensive summoner like barrier or exh can be to ad assassins.

The only reason ad assassins are even as strong as they are currently is because the game time keeps getting reduced which makes lethality stronger bc the last that accrues in a game, the less armor per lvl is built up. It wasn't that long ago this season, when assassins outside of kha'zix were considered sub-par.

SoarinJCJul 8, 20182 votes

Speaking from a pure "feel" standpoint, I buy seekers a ton more than I do hexdrinker, but I still notice hexdrinker a lot more than I do the reduction from seekers. I'll often say, "wow, I would've died without HD", but I cant recall once thinking the same think about seekers itself. It may be a purely psychological thing, but HD always feels a ton more impactful than seekers.