Anivia NEEDS to be smoother to play with all the mobility in this game

ÈvilMorty··27 votes·8,429 views

I may be bias because i just had a game where I faced a riven, irellia, lucian and udyr BUT this needs to be said. Riot I know why you changed anivia ult to be fully formed because or the E-R combo but my god everyone in this game can just dash out of it before it even forms making her ult useless. Now people will say but ult zoning is super useful, well its not really that useful when riven jumps on you, cancels your ult via cc and bashing your face in now is it. Hell every form of hard cc can cancel it now which everyone and their mother seems to have now a days. Most can even just walk out of it before it forms with the amount of movement speed in this game.

This wouldn't be so bad if her Q (which is 850 speed making it the slowest skillshot in this game even slower then morgana's and twisted fate), traveled at a decent speed like fizz ult or ahri charm but no. Hitting some one at range with her stun that has not already bypassed her wall is next to impossible now a days unless your facing someone like brand of viegar but even then no one above gold is dumb enough to walk into it, most immobile champions can easily avoid this by simply walking the other direction out even out running it before it before it gets to you. Everyone who doesnt play aniv: "but what about waiting until they use their mobility spells"? Lets answer that with another question. How often do you see a mobility champion use their mobility spells against a champ with cc other then to avoid said cc? or to jump on them when they do use it?. Take ekko for example, a smart ekko will never use his tumble other then to bypass her wall, making laning against him a farm only lane unless he jumps on you.

I could go on about other problems about having a super slow skillshot like dueling champions with much faster skill shots or how her stun has a long cd similar to every mobility spell cd which renders going in on champions whos mobility spells are on cd nullified(not to mention cooldown reductions) but I would like to suggest a couple of solutions. Lower the ult formation time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec. I understand we need to have the ult fully form cuz of the broken E, R combo but reasons listed above, i think this is a reasonable change. A movement speed buff from 325 to 335, birds shouldn't be so slow. Lastly her Q missile speed change from 850 to at the very least morgana Q which is 1200.

Thank you for reading.

32 Comments

SweedishGunner11 votes

But then she just shits on immobile champions even harder than she does now?

ÈvilMorty1 votes

some of her lowest win rates are vs immobile champs https://champion.gg/champion/Anivia/Middle

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

Don't ever post that meme site if you want to be taken serious.

Votable Jester11 votes

I don't know why you'd complain about forcing a farm lane against mobile champions (who are usually assassins).

Forcing a farm lane by holding your stun is good. Doesn't Anivia outscale most of those champions anyway?

Finally, Anivia has a solid winrate and has for a long time, I don't think she's in desperate need of buffs.

Jamaree10 votes

{quoted}

I may be bias because i just had a game where I faced a riven, irellia, lucian and udyr BUT this needs to be said. Riot I know why you changed anivia ult to be fully formed because or the E-R combo but my god everyone in this game can just dash out of it before it even forms making her ult useless. Now people will say but ult zoning is super useful, well its not really that useful when riven jumps on you, cancels your ult via cc and bashing your face in now is it. Hell every form of hard cc can cancel it now which everyone and their mother seems to have now a days. Most can even just walk out of it before it forms with the amount of movement speed in this game.

I doubt they would buff her much if anything, she is difficult to utilize because of her downsides and if she was made easier, with the massive amounts of CC, damage, and generally utility she had, she would fly up the usability list, even more so then she already does in the hands of good players.

This wouldn't be so bad if her Q (which is 850 speed making it the slowest skillshot in this game even slower then morgana's and twisted fate), traveled at a decent speed like fizz ult or ahri charm but no. Hitting some one at range with her stun that has not already bypassed her wall is next to impossible now a days unless your facing someone like brand of viegar but even then no one above gold is dumb enough to walk into it, most immobile champions can easily avoid this by simply walking the other direction out even out running it before it before it gets to you. Everyone who doesnt play aniv: "but what about waiting until they use their mobility spells"? Lets answer that with another question. How often do you see a mobility champion use their mobility spells against a champ with cc other then to avoid said cc? or to jump on them when they do use it?. Take ekko for example, a smart ekko will never use his tumble other then to bypass her wall, making laning against him a farm only lane unless he jumps on you.

If you are going to compare skills, you need to be unbias about them and compare ALL parts of the skills. Yes, it is one of the slowest skillshots in the game in turn, it is one of the few skills in the game that is an AoE stun, on a basic ability at that. Ahri's charm is faster, but it can be blocked by minions and can only affect one target, Fizz's is faster as an ultimate, but if played against well, will only CC a single person and is an ultimate, so not really fare to compare there. If you want it to move faster, it would either need to lose its AoE stun part, or lose the stun altogether, or lose the ability to go through minions.

I could go on about other problems about having a super slow skillshot like dueling champions with much faster skill shots or how her stun has a long cd similar to every mobility spell cd which renders going in on champions whos mobility spells are on cd nullified(not to mention cooldown reductions) but I would like to suggest a couple of solutions. Lower the ult formation time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec. I understand we need to have the ult fully form cuz of the broken E, R combo but reasons listed above, i think this is a reasonable change. A movement speed buff from 325 to 335, birds shouldn't be so slow. Lastly her Q missile speed change from 850 to the same as ahri charm speed which is 1600 or at the very least morgana Q which is 1200.

I can agree with the first two, the last, no, bad and stupid idea. If you want to buff its speed, it needs to lose the ability to AoE stun and/or lose the ability to go through minions.

ÈvilMorty1 votes

I see your point and it is a good point to make, your right in i did not think about that BUT, my point still stands as it is too slow to hit anything from mid to long range. Making it same speed as morgana is reasonable, morg q is already super easy to dodge so i dont see a problem making it as fast as hers.

Jamaree10 votes

{quoted}

I see your point and it is a good point to make, your right in i did not think about that BUT, my point still stands as it is too slow to hit anything from mid to long range. Making it same speed as morgana is reasonable, morg q is already super easy to dodge so i dont see a problem making it as fast as hers.

Because Anivia's has a larger hit box, is a harder CC, is AoE, AND ignores minions, if you want it to go as fast as Morgana's, you need to trim some of the power it has.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Implying it matters that is aoe. The chances that you will hit more than one target are astronomical. Xerath's e has a nice duration at max range. As someone that mains xerath i will tell you that, hitting max range e is nigh impossible. Bonus difficult points because you cant know its exact max range.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

Implying it matters that is aoe.

It very much does matter, what?

The chances that you will hit more than one target are astronomical.

Based off what exactly?

Xerath's e has a nice duration at max range. As someone that mains xerath i will tell you that, hitting max range e is nigh impossible. Bonus difficult points because you cant know its exact max range.

What does this have to do with Anivia?

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

It very much does matter, what?

No it doesnt. The effect radius is only 225. You will hit more than 1 target within that small radius every ~30 q shots. Its aoe properties hardly matter when it is so rare.

Based off what exactly?

Experience, numbers (its radius) and ofc elo. In bronze the chances are actually good. As you climb however, chances are starting to fall off, hard. People know that they shouldnt stick extremely close to each other against anivia.

What does this have to do with Anivia?

Just an example. Hitting xerath's e at max range is analogous with anivia's q aoe. Both of them are capable of strong feats. Its chances are extremely slim. You wouldnt think that this could be an indication of skill and whatnot. But it isnt. As anivia/xerath (or any other skillshot for that matter) you have only to options when you target someone. Aim their current location and their probable location.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

No it doesnt. The effect radius is only 225. You will hit more than 1 target within that small radius every ~30 q shots. Its aoe properties hardly matter when it is so rare.

Doesn't matter how rare it happens, the fact it can happen is why. It is very rare you will hit five people with Yasou ulti, it is very rare you will hit everyone with a Cho Gath knock up, it is very rare you will land a five man bard ulti, whether or not it is rare doesn't matter, you have to factor it into the power budget.

Experience, numbers (its radius) and ofc elo. In bronze the chances are actually good. As you climb however, chances are starting to fall off, hard. People know that they shouldnt stick extremely close to each other against anivia.

Actually, Anivia at low elo is shit, low elo players don't know how to utilize her hence why her win rate is only 45% at bronze, however as you go up and the players controlling her get better, her win rate leaps upwards by leaps and bounds. If what you said was true, she would see higher win rates at low elo and lower at higher elo when the exact opposite is true instead.

Just an example. Hitting xerath's e at max range is analogous with anivia's q aoe. Both of them are capable of strong feats. Its chances are extremely slim. You wouldnt think that this could be an indication of skill and whatnot. But it isnt. As anivia/xerath (or any other skillshot for that matter) you have only two options when you target someone. Aim their current location and their probable location.

Yeah, that is....literally every skillshot, what you said here can and is said about literally every skillshot...that is how skillshots work?

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Doesn't matter how rare it happens, the fact it can happen is why. It is very rare you will hit five people with Yasou ulti, it is very rare you will hit everyone with a Cho Gath knock up, it is very rare you will land a five man bard ulti, whether or not it is rare doesn't matter, you have to factor it into the power budget.

The ones you are talking about have a good radius. Not an 225.

Actually, Anivia at low elo is shit, low elo players don't know how to utilize her hence why her win rate is only 45% at bronze, however as you go up and the players controlling her get better, her win rate leaps upwards by leaps and bounds. If what you said was true, she would see higher win rates at low elo and lower at higher elo when the exact opposite is true instead.

I was talking about our q specifically. Not anivia as a whole.

Yeah, that is....literally every skillshot, what you said here can and is said about literally every skillshot...that is how skillshots work?

Good since you know that, skillshots =/= indicator of skill.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

The ones you are talking about have a good radius. Not an 225.

They also have pre requistes, longer times to get off, or can hurt as much as they help, that is kind of how this game works and how power budgetting works.

I was talking about our q specifically. Not anivia as a whole.

You kind of have to talk about a champion's entire kit when factor in things like elos.

Good since you know that, skillshots =/= indicator of skill.

Except they are, that is why they are called SKILLshots, the word SKILL is literally in the name?

Nyarlathοtep

They also have pre requistes, longer times to get off, or can hurt as much as they help, that is kind of how this game works and how power budgetting works.

Implying anivia's q doesnt have a delay (in the form of travel time, unless they are close to her).

Except they are, that is why they are called SKILLshots, the word SKILL is literally in the name?

But are they? Again, you dont have control over them once you fire them. Lets say that you aim at someone with a skillshot like xerath's e. You can throw it at your targets current location or his probable. HOWEVER because there is a travel time and because my target has a brain, he can adjust his location in response to my e. In 1v1 (or during lane phase) this sucks A LOT. You dont get to play your champ until teamfights roll. You dont get to have fun. You just farm because you know your enemy can evade your spells. Ive played A LOT of times where people could literally walk out of every of my spells (as xerath). They didnt have to use their mobility. They just had to walk out. Can you imagine how frustrating that can be? Can you imagine how SHITTY IT FEELS WHEN YOUR TEAM NEEDS YOU TO SNOWBALL BUT YOU CANT?

Anyway skillshots ARENT an indication of skill. Period.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

Implying anivia's q doesnt have a delay (in the form of travel time, unless they are close to her).

It does indeed have a delay, would be broken if it didn't.

But are they? Again, you dont have control over them once you fire them. Lets say that you aim at someone with a skillshot like xerath's e. You can throw it at your targets current location or his probable. HOWEVER because there is a travel time and because my target has a brain, he can adjust his location in response to my e. In 1v1 (or during lane phase) this sucks A LOT. You dont get to play your champ until teamfights roll. You dont get to have fun. You just farm because you know your enemy can evade your spells. Ive played A LOT of times where people could literally walk out of every of my spells (as xerath). They didnt have to use their mobility. They just had to walk out. Can you imagine how frustrating that can be? Can you imagine how SHITTY IT FEELS WHEN YOUR TEAM NEEDS YOU TO SNOWBALL BUT YOU CANT?

Anyway skillshots ARENT an indication of skill. Period.

I don't think you know what skillshot means. Yeah, you have to predict, that is why it is called a skillshot, before you use your skillshot, you have to predict and lead your opponent into it, you have to figure out and know if they have the mobility to dodge it, if they don't, then you can fire it based off where they might go, if they do, you have to factor that in and possible use your skills in tandem to land your stun, that is literally the point of skill shots, and yes, skillshots are an indication of skill, the factoring of mobility just goes along with it.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

It does indeed have a delay, would be broken if it didn't.

They way you worded it it sounded like anivia's didnt have a delay.

I don't think you know what skillshot means. Yeah, you have to predict, that is why it is called a skillshot, before you use your skillshot, you have to predict and lead your opponent into it,

What are you not understanding. Even if I DO predict their probable location they can still E V A D E IT.

you have to factor that in and possible use your skills in tandem to land your stun

N O T POSSIBLE most of the times. There is something called CAST TIMES. There is also the fact that I cant use my spells to herd my targets when the spells on their own need a cc in order to land. In xerath's case i can use my q to hide the cast time of my e, but lets be honest now, why waste my q in order to land my e? My q is the highest most reliable spell. And dont you dare say "USE IT TO RUN AWAY" because his q reduces his speed and unlike varus xerath will pause momentarily to fire his q.

skillshots are an indication of skill

For the target not the user. Once the user has fired his skillshot, he cant adjust it. His target however can adjust his course.

Jamaree1 votes

{quoted}

What are you not understanding. Even if I DO predict their probable location they can still E V A D E IT.

N O T POSSIBLE most of the times. There is something called CAST TIMES. There is also the fact that I cant use my spells to herd my targets when the spells on their own need a cc in order to land. In xerath's case i can use my q to hide the cast time of my e, but lets be honest now, why waste my q in order to land my e? My q is the highest most reliable spell. And dont you dare say "USE IT TO RUN AWAY" because his q reduces his speed and unlike varus xerath will pause momentarily to fire his q.

I don't know why you keep talking about Xerath at all when this entire post is about Anivia.

For the target not the user. Once the user has fired his skillshot, he cant adjust it. His target however can adjust his course.

Yeah, and you have to factor that in.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

I don't know why you keep talking about Xerath at all when this entire post is about Anivia.

Well this problem is not exclusive to xerath (well apart his q slowing him). Anivia has cast times too. She cant cast q and w simultaneously.

Yeah, and you have to factor that in.

Yeah no. Thats not how it works. Again, your target has COMPLETELY CONTROL over his action. The user cant control his skillshot once they get fired. Your target will always control whether he will evade your skillshot or not (as long as the ping and movement speed allows it). Besides im not a machine. I cant predict every of his actions. The furthest me (or any other average human) can predict his targets movements is 3. Any further than that its extremely unreliable.

But still even if you do predict that he will move there, well he can just not move at all and this will lead to your skillshot hitting the absolute nothing. You can try to predict his movements. You cant read his mind and his actions. Its impossible. Even at the higher ranks people will miss their skillshots because their targets can sidestep them as long as they pay attention.

GigglesO2 votes

I actually wrote an article about mobility vs. immobile champions 4 seasons ago, and how mobility was toxic for the game, and the only way for an immobile champion to compete with an overbuffed mobile champion is to buff their numbers.... well we hit that where everyone is fucking one shotting...

We need to do a bunch of tone downs on damage, followed by mobility, so that we can have actual non-instant death gameplay again.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4282128

JackMcSnipeyz10 votes

Anivia does not need ANY buffs, the last thing we want is her to be a popular pick.

dragfin128 votes

{quoted}

I may be bias because i just had a game where I faced a riven, irellia, lucian and udyr BUT this needs to be said. Riot I know why you changed anivia ult to be fully formed because or the E-R combo but my god everyone in this game can just dash out of it before it even forms making her ult useless. Now people will say but ult zoning is super useful, well its not really that useful when riven jumps on you, cancels your ult via cc and bashing your face in now is it. Hell every form of hard cc can cancel it now which everyone and their mother seems to have now a days. Most can even just walk out of it before it forms with the amount of movement speed in this game.

This wouldn't be so bad if her Q (which is 850 speed making it the slowest skillshot in this game even slower then morgana's and twisted fate), traveled at a decent speed like fizz ult or ahri charm but no. Hitting some one at range with her stun that has not already bypassed her wall is next to impossible now a days unless your facing someone like brand of viegar but even then no one above gold is dumb enough to walk into it, most immobile champions can easily avoid this by simply walking the other direction out even out running it before it before it gets to you. Everyone who doesnt play aniv: "but what about waiting until they use their mobility spells"? Lets answer that with another question. How often do you see a mobility champion use their mobility spells against a champ with cc other then to avoid said cc? or to jump on them when they do use it?. Take ekko for example, a smart ekko will never use his tumble other then to bypass her wall, making laning against him a farm only lane unless he jumps on you.

I could go on about other problems about having a super slow skillshot like dueling champions with much faster skill shots or how her stun has a long cd similar to every mobility spell cd which renders going in on champions whos mobility spells are on cd nullified(not to mention cooldown reductions) but I would like to suggest a couple of solutions. Lower the ult formation time from 1.5 sec to 1 sec. I understand we need to have the ult fully form cuz of the broken E, R combo but reasons listed above, i think this is a reasonable change. A movement speed buff from 325 to 335, birds shouldn't be so slow. Lastly her Q missile speed change from 850 to the same as ahri charm speed which is 1600 or at the very least morgana Q which is 1200.

Thank you for reading.

Don't need to read anyway. Title says you are bad at Anivia. Nuff said.

Blåbæret8 votes

Lmao, Anivia is cancer incarnate. This champ doesn't need anything other than nerfs.

Noor Sakata7 votes

I mean , As Ahri main or Generally mages main , Anivia is one of the most pain in a@@ picks to deal with

You must not compare her with Ahri , you should never do that , her E is no way even near of being easy to land, she uses her ult to reposition to land it Same exact as anivia who uses her w and r to help that , but comparing it to Ahri ? her E hit box is already small af , and it's not an aoe cc ability like Anivia

Anivia usually shits on other immobile mages too in lane with her kit

That being said , I understand What do u mean , the thing is the mobility became disgusting in this game , reminded me of last time I played Syndra vs a Similar Team Irelia Yasuo{ Lucian Pyke as I remember Couldn't land a single q or w

Daddy Ants7 votes

52.5% win rate.

No Anivia buffs at all.

She's fine.

Z3Sleeper6 votes

"Hey Froggen your champ sucks".

RebeccaUCuber4 votes

Valor gives Quinn a huge movement speed while trasporting Her. Anivia has wings But flies like a chicken. Feelsbad.

Anivia item 3070

EDIT: btw i agree that she's perfectly fine atm ^^

Nasus Bot2 votes

why are you complaining about her slow abilities, her ult slows the enemy so MUCH and her wall is MASSIVE, basically free skill shots, and her stun goes through minions. I main veigar and i swear if these buffs came, I will quit the game. Why do you propose those buffs? there're champs that are countered by others, just accept that. I also play a lot of Nasus, I can not, for the love of god with ghost and righteous glory get out of anivias ultimate, and if I do, im walled back into it, my champion is thus countered and ill have to play around that, just like how you have to play around those mobility champions. Last of all, you can not play a champion in every matchup, I can play nasus top lane vs malph (free stacking lane 400-500 stacks by 20mins) however, enemy has morgana, malzahar, vi and ezreal, would I play nasus top lane? N O! because I would be rendered useless in teamfights, doesnt matter how fed I am. same thing goes to anivia, too many mobility champions? dont play anivia, even if ur against a veigar or a brand. I just can't contemplate to why a person wants anivia Q, an AOE stun to go as fast as ahri charm. It would be ok if it doesn't have an AOE stun and doesn't go through minions. plus you're rewarded extra damage if you land it.

Vivial Moon1 votes

I agree but... q speed atm is good for me at least. It deals a LOT of dmg if it double procs at any stage of the gsne*[sg-ahri-2]*

Kelg1 votes

How do you think I feel getting out bruisered and out maneuvered by all these champs as a Mordekaiser main. Feels fucking bad. And no, don't buff Anivia, she is cancer to lane against if you don't have dashes.

FullmuteAll play1 votes

It is fun to see thread being upvoted, but comments being negative about this idea. People focus on the wrong part of thread. The idea is to find a solution to Anivia's inability to deal with mobile champions, which are tons nowadays. And I agree with that. I don't play Anivia, but I have recently tried her and it was fun experience to see how I can easily deal with lvl18 full build adc and sup, But I get zoned out by lvl 16 Aatrox who can just dash over my wall and with R speed boost run into my face and keep ccing me.

Pika Fox1 votes

Anivia can single handedly stall games virtually forever when behind just by pressing R to kill minions. She doesnt really need help.

Sergeant HbA1c1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Emx43YqR,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-10-15T12:59:23.054+0000)

Anivia can single handedly stall games virtually forever when behind just by pressing R to kill minions. She doesnt really need help.

This. This needs to be addressed. Riot wants players to engage. However, because of the way her ult works, she just needs item 3070 and blue buff and she can practically keep channeling her ult indefinitely.

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