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Jungle Monster Leashing

JRobin31··18 votes·1,956 views

Ocasionally I play a ranged jungler (no I don't mean Fiddlesticks), but RIOT is nerfing them again with more leash changes. When I do play a ranged jungler, I really depend on those leashes to be able to get through my jungle with enough health to be relevant because as a ranged jungler I do not have the armor and magic resist of a melee jungler.

  1. Skill Level: my skill level isn't very high, so I have to ask: Are there some highly skill players out there doing ranged jungle that RIOT is worried are an imbalance to the game? I understand that at my skill level I really need these leashes. Do higher skilled players not need these leashes?

  2. Professional Play: Are we seeing ranged junglers in professional play? I haven't noticed any in the LCS or at MSI... I don't keep track of Professional play all around the world, but I haven't heard of any ranged junglers being played professionally.

  3. Design Core: Are ranged junglers in Platinum and above demonstrating an imbalance in the game? I don't play at these levels, but I do occasionally spectate games. I haven't noticed any problems with ranged junglers in the games I've spectated.

  4. Reasoning: I like playing ranged champions. I like playing ranged junglers. Is there something fundamentally wrong with that? Does it violate RIOT's vision of the jungle? I see jungle monster leashing as important for ranged junglers who do not get the same amount of base armor that melee champions get. It is important for a jungler to be able to get through the jungle and to have enough health left to be able to be relevant.

  5. Prioritize Discussion: This post is specifically about ranged junglers. Even more specifically it is about recent changes to jungle monster leashing. And even more specifically, it is about the change in 5.10 to jungle monster leashing in which RIOT claimed ranged champions were using leashing to solo jungle camps without taking damage. That doesn't happen to me when I play a ranged jungler. So why is RIOT making this change?

18 Comments

FlashnFuse4 votes

It definitely neuters my Quinn jungle. Which makes me sad :/

Jungle Lux God3 votes

The last changes to jungle leashing should have been fine before 5.10 in terms of ranged champions abusing the leashing ranges.

It doesn't change the number of viable meta junglers, as all the currently good junglers are either melee or don't care about the leasing changes. It just hurts those that weren't already meta picks, and therefore are not already good in the jungle.

I feel pick diversity is pretty good, and I don't like this change because it inhibits diversity in the jungle.

FooDang3 votes

I'm pretty sure this due to how easy the bot lane can take golems, gaining a distinct advantage over their lane opponents...I could be wrong.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

if the opponent pushes in hard enough early on there´s no advantage gained in terms of xp, but you give up a lot of lanepressure early on ->rather suboptimal start + most duos still lose 1-2potions when taking krugs, takes to long to juggle them around and with the latest leash changes it had already been almost impossible to keep doing so till they were defeated with the little early-dmg there is without machete.

qetzel1 votes

Watching high level play, only one potion is burnt and the duo gets back to lane with an EXP advantage before three minions go down. It does give a sizeable advantage.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

that´s because most pros are way too hesitant to push in early on (though they often at least send their support to disrupt taking krugs, which makes it take 2-3potions and sometimes even gets the steal) + it doesn´t have much to do with the leashing mechanic anyway - if you never would want for lanes to take jungle camps early on you´d have to further increase spawntimes or make the 1st camps invulnerable for a person without smite. Both not really good solutions for sth. that really isn´t much of a problem.

Yorukin3 votes

I don't mind this change as a means to counteract ranged laners poaching the camps for an exp advantage. I do, however, mind that it impacts the already-iffy ranged junglers not named Fiddlesticks, especially since they just made jungle Karma a thing. I think this would be a change best implemented on anyone--not just ranged champs--who didn't pack Smite and/or a jungle item. That way ranged champions could still get away with several leash resets to survive jungling, but it's less abusable by anyone else.

Beddlam2 votes

I'm pretty sure this change is targeted at non-junglers (mainly ADCs and Mids) to prevent them from easily running into the jungle for bonus gold/xp/buffs with no real risk. It sucks that this hurts your champs, but I don't think that this is supposed to be a nerf to ranged junglers.

SlytherinUmbreon2 votes

Silly Robin. Don't you know? This is season 5, Where Riot has decided to push for "Strategic Diversity:" The act of pushing entire classes of champions out of the game.

Davy Crockett1 votes

If you are having problems taking down camps and they keep resetting, I would suggest taking some AS runes with you to help deal faster dps

JRobin311 votes

[{quoted}](name=FLiQ Gr1d1ron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgO2vLbA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-05-28T03:39:44.680+0000)

If you are having problems taking down camps and they keep resetting, I would suggest taking some AS runes with you to help deal faster dps

Do high ranked players take the camp down before reset without taking damage?

Davy Crockett1 votes

I'm not sure. I would assume it isn't impossible. The only reason I suggest attack speed is because the camps will reset and start healing after you attack them. The attack speed will keep the camps reset. This is a good idea if you have AA reliant champs instead of casters.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

my thoughts exactly...ranged junglers are by no means dominating the jungle and still consistently get screwed over. kiting jungle-camps already slows down the clearspeed if you have to do it to that extend that some more vulnerable junglers had to.

just another thing where they screw over diversity completly unwarranted.

If they really want to fix some jungle-problems they should look at the alternatives to cinderhulk and maybe some of the smite-options - but just crippling already tier 2 junglers further doesn´t help anyone.

Llanite1 votes

If you want to play a ranged jungler, learn to stutterstep and agroo soft reset. I've done it pretty well as Teemo and Kayle.

Ranger has RANGE, melee has defense, if you're facetanking as a ranged champ, you're doing it wrong.

Newb the Legend1 votes

Quinn is an easier ranged champ to use for jungle clearing wise with her blind. I would have to say my top three favorite ranged junglers are Twitch, Quinn, and Vayne. Vayne has a harder time than the other two, especially early. She also doesn't have as strong ganking power.

Lich My Ashe1 votes

There was a very big issue with Soraka jungle in the last LCS, faker carried his team with this unheard of playstyle. I believe Riot caught wind of TSM's new five man ranged jungle team comp that has met with a lot of success and controversy in the higher elo's. These changes may be to offset any unfair play such as this in future tournaments.

arcinex1 votes

I think it's mostly to stop solo q players from taking gromp/krugs at level 1 (adc&support)or at least punish them more. Idk if that leash nerf is live but it's possible to take krugs/gromp while taking little to no damage.

JRobin311 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure this change is targeted at non-junglers (mainly ADCs and Mids) to prevent them from easily running into the jungle for bonus gold/xp/buffs with no real risk. It sucks that this hurts your champs, but I don't think that this is supposed to be a nerf to ranged junglers.

Are there ranged mid-laners taking jungle camps without sustaining damage? If so who?

{quoted}

Watching high level play, only one potion is burnt and the duo gets back to lane with an EXP advantage before three minions go down. It does give a sizeable advantage.

This. Even at high level of play the duo takes damage from the camp. However, the change in patch 5.10 specifically targets champions trying to solo a jungle camp. That means RIOT must be concerned about top laners, mid laners, or ranged junglers (not bot lane duos).

{quoted}

If you want to play a ranged jungler, learn to stutterstep and agroo soft reset. I've done it pretty well as Teemo and Kayle.

Ranger has RANGE, melee has defense, if you're facetanking as a ranged champ, you're doing it wrong.

Did you take the camp solo without sustaining damage using Teemo or Kayle? Do you think you had an unfair advantage over melee champions.

[{quoted}](name=Lich My Ashe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgO2vLbA,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-05-28T16:01:16.920+0000)

There was a very big issue with Soraka jungle in the last LCS, faker carried his team with this unheard of playstyle. I believe Riot caught wind of TSM's new five man ranged jungle team comp that has met with a lot of success and controversy in the higher elo's. These changes may be to offset any unfair play such as this in future tournaments.

Right... RIOT is making the leash limit harder because Soraka's bananas do too much damage...

{quoted}

I think it's mostly to stop solo q players from taking gromp/krugs at level 1 (adc&support)or at least punish them more. Idk if that leash nerf is live but it's possible to take krugs/gromp while taking little to no damage.

Duos aren't mentioned in the Patch Notes. If RIOT were really thinking this, then why didn't they say anything about it.

From the Patch Notes 5.10: "We're cleaning up a few exploit cases where solo ranged attackers are resetting monster aggro to clear camps without taking damage. Be careful with those leashes!"

This is really strong language. It was so bad RIOT considered an exploit.

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