Its Crazy how Good Conqueror Is.

GigglesO··20 votes·14,580 views

Its actually crazy how much better conqueror is than other keystones. Take this game for example where almost noone built armor. So first of all lets take a look at builds: https://i.imgur.com/230w7Qo.jpg Darius had item 3143. Sion had item 3047 Look at all that armor we have (sarcasm)

Now lets take a look at the damage values of different champs. https://i.imgur.com/oICiaXl.jpg Holy shit fizz was popping off.

Now to compare the runes. https://i.imgur.com/AejsvSf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IIdF0cA.png

You know for fizz dealing more damage than yasuo, why does yasuo deal more damage with his keystone than fizz? "Because its supposed to counter armor" Noone really built armor, and to top it off he was botlane (aka not against the darius who was the only person that built armor)

So why is it balanced around the idea that noone is going to build armor? Shouldn't the rune that counters armor be less useful than other keystones if noone actually builds armor?

Honestly that shit is dumb. He did more damage than fizz, who was fighting more, and dealing more damage than yasuo. The worse part is if you can imagine trying to build armor into him? That number would have been through the ceiling. This legit just isn't fun or balanced.

Plz riot change conqueror so we can build armor without completely getting ass blasted. I would have loved to build an armor item as sion that game. I just knew it wasn't worth it because of Iedge+ Conq. It needs to be a less generic “pick me” rune.

Edit: Just FYI he did 14.5k total true damage. The 4.7k shown is only because we didn’t try to stack armor. I don’t think the rune should be balanced around players not building armor when it has such a huge effect against anyone that does build armor. It makes it generically too good every game.

https://i.imgur.com/wNbaDYT.jpg

Just take a look at that true damage. Its fucking bull shit. True damage from conqueror is an issue right now. How do you build armor to counter a physical damage attacker when they can just ignore your armor?

74 Comments

NemeBro13 votes

{quoted}

You know for fizz dealing more damage than yasuo, why does yasuo deal more damage with his keystone than fizz?

Because one is a burst keystone, the other is a DPS question.

Terrible thread. Bad post.

GigglesO8 votes

It’s supposed to be a “dps against armor” not a generally great because you picked it.

TehNACHO4 votes

I think you're missing the point. Different ways to apply damage can and will look skewed in the results screen. A DPS Rune especially would have much different numbers than a Burst Rune.

Here's an example: if you go on a stats site like champion.gg and rank champions based on damage, you'll notice all the AOE Mages are at the top of the charts. Is this because they're destroying the game with raw damage, or is it because they apply damage to multiple targets at once and skewing the end game totals that way? A bit of both, but what's important is recognizing that skew.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

I think you're missing the point. Different ways to apply damage can and will look skewed in the results screen. A DPS Rune especially would have much different numbers than a Burst Rune.

Here's an example: if you go on a stats site like champion.gg and rank champions based on damage, you'll notice all the AOE Mages are at the top of the charts. Is this because they're destroying the game with raw damage, or is it because they apply damage to multiple targets at once and skewing the end game totals that way? A bit of both, but what's important is recognizing that skew.

Some do. Some don't. Zyra I would argue DOES break the game, and it's really demonstrated with you pick Dark Harvest on her. She is the #1 user of Dark Harvest and averages 10 more stacks per game than the next best champion to use it on.

GigglesO1 votes

[deleted]

Illabethe2 votes

{quoted}

And you are missing the point that conquer is doing too much damage against a team that has little to no armor. Honestly I wish I would have built armor just to show you how silly conquer really is.

I think you're replying to the wrong person.....

GigglesO1 votes

Sorry hit the wrong reply!

Gilgayu1 votes

{quoted}

Some do. Some don't. Zyra I would argue DOES break the game, and it's really demonstrated with you pick Dark Harvest on her. She is the #1 user of Dark Harvest and averages 10 more stacks per game than the next best champion to use it on.

The #1 DH user is brand. 20 stacks average quite literally

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

The #1 DH user is brand. 20 stacks average quite literally

Not even close to what I get on Zyra. I just got 58 last game. Yesterday I got 39/42/32/36.

The 58 Stacks was in a 45 minute game. I had 9 stacks by 7 minutes.

GigglesO6 votes

And you are missing the point that conquer is doing too much damage against a team that has little to no armor. Honestly I wish I would have built armor just to show you how silly conquer really is.

Bears Dont Care3 votes

{quoted}

And you are missing the point that conquer is doing too much damage against a team that has little to no armor. Honestly I wish I would have built armor just to show you how silly conquer really is.

That makes no sense logically. True damage loses its value the lower the resistance of the target.

Let us say I have 100ad with conqueror against a target with 50% damage reduction

Conqueror converts 20% into true damage.

So I will deal 20 true damage and 40 physical. This is a total of 60 damage.

Without conqueror I would have dealt 50 physical damage.

As damage reduction lowers, the value of true damage and conqueror itself begins to drop.

Now a target with 20% damage reduction. Same stats as above.

Without conqueror 80 physical damage. With conqueror 64 physical damage with 20 true. Total damage is 84.

84 damage vs 80. This is a 5% damage increase. You would gain more damage through PTA.

Conquerors effectiveness is good only against high resistance targets. For a squishy target, there are many other runes which will contribute far more damage such as bloody arcane comet.

Conqueror is not an issue for anyone but tanks, stop trying to frame it otherwise.

GigglesO4 votes

That’s the thing. It was comparably better than electrocute while being against players that didn’t build armor. Don’t you see how that is an issue?

You said it yourself

“True Damage loses value the lower >the resistance of the target.”

So why the fuck is it doing well when no one is building armor?

You also fail to take into account the more ad that conquer gives making it universally also better against squishies.

Zedthul1 votes

{quoted}

That’s the thing. It was comparably better than electrocute while being against players that didn’t build armor. Don’t you see how that is an issue?

You said it yourself

So why the fuck is it doing well when no one is building armor?

You also fail to take into account the more ad that conquer gives making it universally also better against squishies.

That's just terrible logic and anecdotal evidence. You have two different players shown. We have no idea how well these players played, we have no idea how many ability attacks, auto attacks, time on a target, what roles were being played by the two players, etc? It is a terrible post because it's far more opinion sourced than data sourced.

This data is pretty much worthless when it comes to determining how strong and useful either rune is. Neither rune is used in the same way and neither runes are used on the same type of champion. You're comparing a rune used by an assassin to different rune used by a fighter, while both having different fighting techniques and then try and say they are on comparable ground.

Zedthul2 votes

We don't even know which champion killed what champion, what was the target? Were all of the kills vs tanks? I think not. Did each player kill the exact same player over and over? I think not. How many kills were mages, tanks, etc? Looks like the enemy team mainly built magic resist, so not an even balance there either. See where this is going?

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Does it really require too much brainpower for you to realize that electrocute is a flat burst dmg rune that has a 40 sec cooldown early on while yasuo botlane has conq up all the time and fights two people?

Wow conq does more dmg than the one time burst keystone that even lategame hits one target for 400 dmg or something and then goes on a 20 second cooldown.

If at all i'd be worried a burst keystone deals nearly as much dmg as a dps rune. THAT shit should worry you just how much burst is in the game because of shit like electrocute.

Tobykachu2 votes

Electrocute has a 25 second cool down and while it's true that it's a poor comparison at best, there is no denying that Conqueror way too overpowered and one of the main reasons why the tank class is suffering right now.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

Electrocute has a 25 second cool down and while it's true that it's a poor comparison at best, there is no denying that Conqueror way too overpowered and one of the main reasons why the tank class is suffering right now.

Yes there is denying. The mayhem does not lie. Conqueror is balanced, you guys are just repeating your statement over and over in different ways with the hope it will convince someone othereise. Politicians in the making.

Tobykachu2 votes

How can you deny it is the real question? Where is the counter play to this rune? What can you do, as a tank, against this key stone? Build flat health? Well as people keep pointing out it's a dps key stone, so it can be applied over and over again and in conjunction with other items and abilities, makes that an almost obsolete countermeasure.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

How can you deny it is the real question?

The math shows conqueror is not an issue. That is how.

Where is the counter play to this rune? Not everything needs to be counter playable. To counter it, you build HP.

What can you do, as a tank, against this key stone? Build as normal. You are still reducing the rest of their damage significantly. This simply reduces the effectiveness of your mitigation by 20% rather than the amount of armor which would be much more significant. Hence. Why champions who build penetration should never use thos rune. It is grossly inefficient.

Build flat health? Yes.

Well as people keep pointing out it's a dps key stone, so it can be applied over and over again and in conjunction with other items and abilities, makes that an almost obsolete countermeasure.

False. Your time until death is still significantly higher than a target with less resistance. Dos runes also need to outscale defensive runes. Offense should always outscale it.

Why should you be invincible to damage? Where is the counter play there?

You guys are just sheep, you complain about people being too tanky, and when you get something to manage it better you have a tantrum.

Jell. Damage really hasn't grown that much, but everyone builds squishy teams and complains when they die suddenly.

Like...bruh.

Tobykachu1 votes

Of course your time until death is higher than a target with less resistance. In other news, house fires are extinguished quicker when the fire department shows up versus when they don't. I'm not implying that tanks should be unkillable monsters, but that the threshold of damage versus tankiness hasn't been reached yet. In between conqueror and I.E giving true damage with crit, building armour feels so worthless. I understand that tank metas are just as unfun as any meta, I just wish more was being done to make tanks feel viable without bringing the 3/4 tanks per game philosophy back.

LordGeovanni3 votes

The reason Conqourer is doing well is actually because Armor's value (not healths value as a result of armor like everyone likes to then point out) is skewed to the first 100 points of armor which is 50% damage reduction versus physical damage. the next 100 armor is 13.5% 75% reduction in effectiveness for the same 100 points of armor. Almost All champions supposedly squishy one and supposedly tanky ones hover around this 100 armor as base stats and 50% damage reduction between 80 and 120 armor. Compared to the supposedly much more op (as told by mage mains) 40-60 magic resist as base stats if im being generous.

nm10101 votes

You forgot about the flat ad conqueror gives. The second scenario becomes roughly 97 damage vs 80 (at level 6 or so) or ~21% increased damage. Conqueror is also much better due to ad ratios on abilities benefitting from this ad. I’m sure if the rune was just true damage conversion most people wouldn’t have an issue.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Does everyone not have innate armor?

A i Bot 01 votes

^

Fízz v25 votes

damn thats actually a ton, 4.7k that wouldve been mitigated? he mustve hit the darius and you a lot mid game lul

plus the number doesnt even take into account the bonus AD you get from conqueror xd

Zedthul1 votes

Nope, the Fizz and Yasuo were on the same team. Also, the enemy team was stacking magic resist, not AD resist. Electrocute is effected by magic resist correct?

Sire Hippington5 votes

Worst thing about it is that the number in the stats doesn't even account for the 6-35 ad it gives...

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EeFjG3iV,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-01-01T15:13:22.555+0000)

Worst thing about it is that the number in the stats doesn't even account for the 6-35 ad it gives...

It wasn't forgotten it was omitted for the sake of simplicity which I mentioned earier. Even when you account for the ad you still would perform better with any other damage rune on a low resistance target.

If you are not fighting anything with high resistance and up then you have no reason to use conqueror. You are better off with any other damage rune outside of a non stacked dh.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Lets look at a common toplane matchup like jax vs renekton(both at around 10% pickrate)

Lvl 3, Renekton has 45armor and Jax both have 45 armor with 1 armor rune

At lvl 3, conqueror gives 9.41 ad.

Renekton on his Q+AA+W with W empowered has a 4.05 ratio on his Conqu empowered combo, (4.95 if second E hits), so ~38.1 (~46.6) damage from just the AD, further increasing with every aditional AA you land. PTA does 56.5 on the proc, so you need only one more AA on a full combo to break even. EC does 47.7 +0.4ad, asumeing double adaptive and a dorans blade start, you get 55.7, so again just one more auto on the full combo and just the ad from conqu deal more damage.

Now for the truedamage, the 45armor grant a 31% reduction, so post mitigated ohysical damage is at 69%. with conqueror, it s 20% + (80% X 0.69) = ~75%, which euals a 8.7% increase in damage(69 X 1.078 = 75)

So it has a slightly lower boost than PTA, but starting on the first hit rather than after 3, and the bonus ad stay relevant as long as the trade goes while PTAs damage proc is a one time effect. Also, it means that Conquerpr on Renekton adds more damage to his combo than electrocute on top of haveing the better sustained dps and less downtime.

And again, for every Aditional AA one does, Conqerors values increases compared to the other options, so champs like Yi, Jax or Yasuo that prefer to keep hitting their target as long as possible, it will outclass the other options even vs more squishy targets. The only rune that probably beats conqueror for the laneing performance is grasp, mostly because it can be used for quick 1-AA trades.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EeFjG3iV,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2019-01-02T02:07:13.624+0000)

So it has a slightly lower boost than PTA, but starting on the first hit rather than after 3, and the bonus ad stay relevant as long as the trade goes while PTAs damage proc is a one time effect.

Allow me to correct you on one matter here. Conqueror does not apply its bonus ad and true damage to the hit that procs it. U less I am misinterpreting your intent here.

Furthermore, in order for the damage increase of conqueror to beat out pta, you would need to go beyond the 6second mark in terms of fighting and in that case, a sustained damage rune should be better.

Also, it means that Conquerpr on Renekton adds more damage to his combo than electrocute on top of haveing the better sustained dps and less downtime.

If it goes beyond a certain amount of attacks yes. The key word is how many attacks are going through? What kind of attacks? Conqueror is worse for Auto users which is why adcs dont use it.

And again, for every Aditional AA one does, Conqerors values increases compared to the other options, so champs like Yi, Jax or Yasuo that prefer to keep hitting their target as long as possible, it will outclass the other options even vs more squishy targets. The only rune that probably beats conqueror for the laneing performance is grasp, mostly because it can be used for quick 1-AA trades.

Well yes, I would hope a rune meant for sustained would be better over time compared to a burst rune.

You supported what I said earlier. Sustained, conqueror is better. Bursting, other runes are better, but it still doesn't mean conqueror is an issue.

All ot does is reduce your resistance value by 20%.

As I said earlier, many champions use it not just for the true damage but the ad bonus it gives since other runes are not as worth while.

Jax and yi can do without it due to their aa nature. They could easily run hail of blades or lethal or pta.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Furthermore, in order for the damage increase of conqueror to beat out pta, you would need to go beyond the 6second mark in terms of fighting and in that case, a sustained damage rune should be better.

No, you wouldn't. Conquerors truedamage matches the damage amp from PTA(both increase you're damage done by ~8%) while the bonus AD further increases AA damage for the full duration, while PTA only has the amp and the one-time damage proc, so anything that goes beyond those 3 attacks is in favour of Conqueror

If it goes beyond a certain amount of attacks yes.

Nope, just the standart combo for renekton, E-AA-W(furry)-Q-AA-E, and conqueror will bypass EC

Conqueror is worse for Auto users which is why adcs dont use it.

plain wrong, Conqueror is the superb AA rune, which is why every irelia, jax, yi, yasuo or tryn takes it. It's has nothing to do with adc useing AAs, but with conqueror haveing a huge penalty for ranged users. It only last for a very limited time instead of refreshing as long as you are in combat, makeing it harder to use than lethal tempo. 3sec after the first hit with min 4 sec downtime afterwards is not that great.

All ot does is reduce your resistance value by 20%.

That is just wrong aswell. 20% armorpen would do that, truedamage conversion scales differently. Lets compare the two on some armor values:

100 armor: 50% reduction, so 50% damage remaining With conqueror you have 20+80/2 = 60% remaining damage, which is a 20% increase to no pen damage With 20%pen, you face 80 armor which equals a ~45% reduction, so you have ~55% remaining damage, which is a 10% increase compare to no pen, so only half as effective as the truedamage

200 armor. 66.7% reduction, 33.3% remaining for conqueror, its 20+80/3 = 46.7% remaining for armorpen, it's 160armor -> 61.6% reduction so 38.4% remaining

300 armor, 75% reductoion, 25% remaining conqu: 20+80/4 = 40% remaining pen: 240 armor = 29.5% remaining 40% pen 180 armor = 35.7% remaining

700 armor, 88.5% reduction, 12.5% remaining Conqu 20+80/8 = 30% remaining pen: 560 armor = 15.1% remaining 40% pen, 420 armor = 19.2% remaining

It's clear to see that truedamage conversion is superior to pen, especially at high armor values to a point where even 40% pen is worse than 20% truedamage...

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EeFjG3iV,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-02T05:07:16.282+0000)

No, you wouldn't. Conquerors truedamage matches the damage amp from PTA(both increase you're damage done by ~8%) while the bonus AD further increases AA damage for the full duration, while PTA only has the amp and the one-time damage proc, so anything that goes beyond those 3 attacks is in favour of Conqueror

PTA provides a damage amp from 8% to 12% at level 18. It would be a poor comparison to utilize level 1 rune and compared it to the 35 AD from a level 18 rune.

Nope, just the standart combo for renekton, E-AA-W(furry)-Q-AA-E, and conqueror will bypass EC

Renekton also has ratios of over 100% AD on all of his abilities. So an extra 35 AD enhances his damage abilities rather significantly, just as it enhances other champions with high AD abilities. Similar to why Draven enjoys utilizing it which I also mentioned in my previous post.

The ratiop on his W alone is 150%. which means 35AD alone is going to increase the damage of the ability by 52 damage. Similar to how Draven utilizes conqueror because of how his abilities all have 100%+ AD ratios on his abilities. Champions such as twitch can't utilize it because despite having a 205% AD ratio on his E, needs time to stack it.

plain wrong, Conqueror is the superb AA rune, which is why every irelia, jax, yi, yasuo or tryn takes it. It's has nothing to do with adc useing AAs, but with conqueror haveing a huge penalty for ranged users.

Huge penalty? Conqueror lasts for 3 seconds and the average TTK for an adc at level 6 and up is well below that on anyone who is NOT a tank. Hell a fed ADC is going to blow up a tank very quickly due to the combination of ASPD, AD, Crit, and Pen.

If it were the superior AA rune, everyone who is auto based would be using it and this is clearly not the case outside of the exception of Draven. This is clearly not the case, so clearly, the reality is not matching the hypothetical screams of the community.

It only last for a very limited time instead of refreshing as long as you are in combat, makeing it harder to use than lethal tempo. 3sec after the first hit with min 4 sec downtime afterwards is not that great.

Here is where I disagree with you. Let us consider the requirements to activate it. You need to be in combat for 3.9s. You need to land a basic attack. You then get 3 seconds where you ignore 20% of the resistance value. So if they have 50% damage resistance, it instead acts as if they have 40%. So on an so forth.

As for Master Yi. Let us do a quick DPS check on a dummy. Level 18 no items.

Conqueror Yi: 132 PTA Yi: 126 Letal tempo Yi: 138

Dominik 35% armor pen conqueror: 219 pta: 216 lethal:248

Mind you, this is after I loaded conqueror to proc on one dummy to then use on another dummy. PTA has the biggest issue because it is based on the number of auto attacks dealt to proc it and it refreshes on any new target. Lethal was easier to do, and displays the biggest bang for your buck.

Let alone it is a contradiction. You can't say "It is the superior AA rune, but ADC's don't want the superior rune because it only lasts 3 seconds."

If it was the superior AA rune, they would use it anyway because the end game DPS of an adc at level 6 is over 248. Squishy targets at level 6 have only 957 hp. They die in less than

That is on a dummy with 50% damage mitigation with NO armor pen on a twitch. Let's be real dude.

That is just wrong aswell. 20% armorpen would do that, truedamage conversion scales differently.

Pardon allow me to rephrase it.

I meant to say the END resistance value. Ergo, if you have no penetration on a target with 50% resistance, using conqueror will provide damage as if it only had 40% damage resistance which is an increase of 20% flat.

I deleted the rest of your quote because we both have an understanding of how it works, and I think it would be pointless to go ciruclar o something we both objectively agree upon, which is how the rune works. I simply do not agree with your end conclusion of it being comparable to the other runes that AA users would like particularly because those runes have a stronger multiplicative effect such as PTA which only grows in strength based on how quickly the player autos.

It's clear to see that truedamage conversion is superior to pen, especially at high armor values to a point where even 40% pen is worse than 20% truedamage...

Yes...that is the point of conqueror. To provide a means of damaging a target when they have especially high armor/MR values. People who stack armor penetration will generally perform better. For example if you are Zed and utilizing duskblade with dominik's on a target with 100 armor, their armor will be approximately 46, which provides a mitigation of 31%. This is better than conqueror's mitigation of armor to where its value is 40%.

In this case, conqueror would be inferior because the amount of penetration items stacking is superior.

Champions who build lethality/percent pen regularly are better off using other runes because of how it stacks unless it s avery high armor target such as say, rammus where conqueror is naturally better because it shaves off the end value rather than the armor values contributing to it which penetration does. It provides counterplay for champions in top lane who may have to deal with someone possessing high armor value but being unable to build penetration like some champions can. Vi, for example, would build only black cleaver. 24% armor pen is not enough for dealing with higher armor targets. Or champions such as warwick who do not build penetration items. Or Master Yi who does not build penetration items until later on in the game( even though he can use PTA or Lethal tempo_

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

Because Conquerer is, at its core, a DPS rune, whereas Electrocute is a burst rune.

DPS will always have higher total damage than burst.

EDIT: Not to say conquerer isn't OP. It is. It gives too much. Should honestly be cut down to just the true damage, and completely ditch the AD gain. Just pointing out why conquerer did more damage.

Illabethe2 votes

{quoted}

Because Conquerer is, at its core, a DPS rune, whereas Electrocute is a burst rune.

DPS will always have higher total damage than burst.

EDIT: Not to say conquerer isn't OP. It is. It gives too much. Should honestly be cut down to just the true damage, and completely ditch the AD gain. Just pointing out why conquerer did more damage.

You missed the point entirely (understandable with the mess of the OP's post)

That was 4717 True damage that would have been mitigated. NOT the entirety of Conquerer's effect.

In other words, he didn't post:

-The additional Physical damage from Conquerer's AD addition.

In other words:

Conquerer in this game did both "Would have been mitigated" True damage and "True damage that would NOT have been mitigated, as WELL as Physical damage.

That's three damage stats. Only one is reflected when compared to Electrocute. It's likely Yasuo did 2-3 times as much damage with Conquerer than Fizz did with Electrocute.

Zedthul2 votes

Ok, and how many times did each player do damage, what kind of attack, and to what kind of target etc? The entire premise is predicated off anecdotal evidence.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, and how many times did each player do damage, what kind of attack, and to what kind of target etc? The entire premise is predicated off anecdotal evidence.

Even if in normal cases, the chat is anecdotal, in this one case it's not.

Yasuo has that reset capacity to abuse it more than any other champion.

Fizz on the other hand is gated by cooldowns, no sustain, and post skill vulnerabilities.

Even if you do not know the nuances of the game, you do know that Yasuo is a spam lord who never stops attacking, while Fizz AND Electrocute are both gated by cooldowns.

Zedthul2 votes

{quoted}

Even if in normal cases, the chat is anecdotal, in this one case it's not.

Yasuo has that reset capacity to abuse it more than any other champion.

Fizz on the other hand is gated by cooldowns, no sustain, and post skill vulnerabilities.

Even if you do not know the nuances of the game, you do know that Yasuo is a spam lord who never stops attacking, while Fizz AND Electrocute are both gated by cooldowns.

That's my point, this is not an apple to apple comparison. It's junk data really, Fizz purpose is not the same as Yasuo's. One is a huge burst champ and the other is about sustain. Trying to compare the runes in such a fashion with only one source of data is anecdotal at best, and knowingly misleading at worse.

Conq may very well be better, but comparing them in this fashion is pointless. Reminds me of the first few years Wow was out, people would swear up and down x was better than y, but once logs came out they were proven wrong. There are a plethora of reasons something maybe possibly performing better, for example as other poster said, Yasuo may have had Sion as his opponent for Yasuo to spam on while Fizz may have been roaming for a large part of the game, sniping just as assassins do.

The data is going to be skewed. Look at the screenshot, who did the most damage to champions? Fizz stomped him, it's called balance, why should Electrocute have just as much overall damage as Conq? Then Fizz's damage would have been even more lopsided? See, I can look at it that way too.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

That's my point, this is not an apple to apple comparison. It's junk data really, Fizz purpose is not the same as Yasuo's. One is a huge burst champ and the other is about sustain. Trying to compare the runes in such a fashion with only one source of data is anecdotal at best, and knowingly misleading at worse.

Conq may very well be better, but comparing them in this fashion is pointless. Reminds me of the first few years Wow was out, people would swear up and down x was better than y, but once logs came out they were proven wrong. There are a plethora of reasons something maybe possibly performing better, for example as other poster said, Yasuo may have had Sion as his opponent for Yasuo to spam on while Fizz may have been roaming for a large part of the game, sniping just as assassins do.

The data is going to be skewed.

Because Yasuo hitting 4-5 times per second with 50% Bonus Armor Penetration, Double crit rate...... isn't "Burst."

You can actually mitigate Fizz's damage. Good luck trying to reduce those 600-700 damage hits spammed by Yasuo ......

LordGeovanni1 votes

Its not that it isnt burst but that he can sustain it.

Saianna4 votes

I love those "here's proof of a lie" threads. There's nowhere Riot can backtrack. They can (and surely will) only ignore it.

What could you possibly say while facing it? No matter what would you say, it's a PR bomb.

This argument:

{quoted}

Because one is a burst keystone, the other is a DPS question.

Terrible thread. Bad post.

what's burst? What's DPS (sustained damage) exactly? Tbh both of them are the same with difference of time they apply to the target. But what could it matter... like... at all?

Conqueror was designed to be anti-tank, yet it's just overall better.

Ragnaveil2 votes

It was designed as such, but was it necessary? Its prototype form actually looked more balanced than this version is, and would allow AP bruisers to take it compared to the current form that applies to maybe about 1/3 of of the bruiser class.

The rune at this point is a mistake that is not being addressed, even with the multitude of things it creates that makes a hypocrisy of their own statements. "Old Aatrox was too stat check and too similar to Tryndamere" Ok, and what's Tryndamere nowadays? A living breathing stat check that stat checks even harder than old Aatrox because of this singular rune and the crit changes.

AirKingNeo4 votes

One is constant in battle, the other is burst.

Obviously, something that is more constant rather than instant is going to deal more over the course of a game.

Also, normal games for data?

Físt3 votes

As much as I love conq I have to agree. I can only speak for Yasuo, but to me it just feels like a mandatory pick and I agree it shouldn't be like that. Even if I'm against a squishy mage it's just a better option overall and for the sake of balancing that has to change in some way.

uNhoLeee3 votes

didnt play for a month or so, so missed a patch or w/e. as far as i recall they nerfed elec/ and dark harvest? ran electrocute, checked the rune, 310 damage. checked the enemy fiora and irelia conqueror damage, 2000... yup good balancing as always riot.

ankoanko191 votes

Dont think I've ever had a game where I dealt 4.7k ''true dmg that would be migated'' dmg on conquerer.

GigglesO2 votes

Sadly that number was low compared to if we had built armor.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

Dont think I've ever had a game where I dealt 4.7k ''true dmg that would be migated'' dmg on conquerer.

You probably don't build a Static Shiv. IE /Conquerer also convert part of Shiv into true damage.

A i Bot 01 votes

Conqueror actually has a huge weakness. Especially on Yasuo, but if your teams are always used to aram fights then you will never find it

Físt6 votes

I love how cryptic this is. It's like saying Unicorns exist but it's a secret where they hide

A i Bot 01 votes

Happy New year. Conq. Excels at aram style fights where you push waves into enemy team. but It is weak in the jungle. It's somewhat the same as if you were to face a mord vs in lane. you get a Huge advantage out of lane than in lane. Which is why Champs use split push to keep the passive up incase of a fight or they may use jungle camps. Which is also a good idea to fight when they are down if you are in the jungle. I don't mean to sound like some idiot, I kind of was waiting for someone to ask instead of Harrass me like normal in these Board Discussions.

So thank you Fist!

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