Face of the Mountain: A QoL change to use its charges late game when the carry one-shots minions

Deep Terror Nami·Jun 11, 2015·185 votes·6,306 views

Instead of requiring the Support with FotM to last hit to proc Spoils of War, have his basic attacks mark the minion for 1.5 seconds. If the minion dies within that time by any means then a charge is expended and the gold is shared.

This would simply allow the support to continue generating gold with it without having the insurmountable obstacle of your own teammate's damage denying it.

I was thinking to only apply this to the tier 3 Face of the Mountain and not the previous two.

99 Comments

SinlaireJun 11, 201558 votes

Braum Leona Taric

all think this idea is fabulous.

well. 2 think it's great. one thinks its fabulous.

Lauricella3Jun 11, 201530 votes

{quoted}

all think this idea is fabulous.

well. 2 think it's great. one thinks its fabulous.

is it Braum i bet it's Braum

AkesgerothJun 11, 201527 votes

I concur. Spoils of War is unlikely to proc past mid-game precisely because of this.

333lomJun 11, 20158 votes

Exactly. Teammates kill minions so fast, the support never gets a chance to kill some minions to trigger the marks for healing.

Need Gold 4 TentJun 11, 20155 votes

The teammates who know the general champ roster and how items work are ok though. Some of them even ping the cannon minions in lane for me to take them. And there are also those who yell at me for using Shen Vorpal Blade on a full hp minion because it's extra damage on the minion that will push the wave. You're welcome for the hp regen. Needless to say, those same teammates are the same ones that ignore me and my stacks lategame...

ArveanorJun 11, 20151 votes

Wave management is serious business...

Need Gold 4 TentJun 11, 20157 votes

I'm a support with 0 damage items, and that Q does less damage than even an autoattack. you have to have significantly more damage or some form of aoe to actually do enough to have an effect on a wave.

edit: unless you're actually autoattacking but they complain about the Q.

ArkenStormJun 12, 20152 votes

seriously, people underestimate the hp regen. it gets crazy.

Nameless VoiceJun 11, 201511 votes

I'd rather have Face of the Mountain's execute instantly kill any (non-promoted and non-super) minion, regardless of health.

HouseCat01Jun 11, 20154 votes

but then if you rush it, you'd push your lane super hard

Deep Terror NamiJun 11, 201510 votes

Not really. You'd just refrain from attacking it until you wanted it dead. I don't want a full execute though

Nameless VoiceJun 11, 20152 votes

Exactly. ADCs don't automatically push the lane as soon as they get a damage item, either. They can still wait until the minion is almost dead before attacking.

Potentially unpopular opinion, but I prefer the execute so that the item stays as being sub-optimal on ranged supports. Being able to trigger it from range breaks the idea of the item involving putting yourself at risk of being attacked in order to get more income than the Coin line of items.

GavranJun 11, 20152 votes

It could still be a full execute for melee champions though, and none for ranged.

Nameless VoiceJun 11, 20152 votes

That was what I meant: a full execute for mêlée champions, as opposed to the "tag and reward" system suggested in the original post.

The execute doesn't work for ranged champions anyway.

VentiraJun 12, 20151 votes

Thresh is technically ranged, yet I see em use coin all the time.

Nameless VoiceJun 12, 20152 votes

The execute doesn't happen for Thresh, though his Flay passive makes last-hitting easier for him.

This is entirely fair in my opinion.

Spacesuit SpiffJun 11, 20154 votes

Yeah. Balance issues aside, it's really not fun to try and fail to get your stacks lategame because the carries are fighting over the cs. This would go a long way.

roroerJun 11, 20154 votes

Or just make it 1 shot minions with auto attacks whether ranged or melee

DengedenJun 11, 20153 votes

No! Those filthy carries must cooperate for the free heals we offer them!

Penguin EclipseJun 11, 20153 votes

I agree the late game gold potential with FotM sucks. But I think that is a fair price for the strength the relic shield brings to the laning phase. That early game healing is incredibly strong. Arguably way stronger than anything the other two gold items bring. They have zero direct impact on the adc until their final upgrade.

DrProfVibeCheckJun 11, 20152 votes

Think about it, the other items are meant for different kinds of supps. Spellthiefs gives AP and provides income when poking, great for poke supps. Ancient coin passively grants gold and mana regen, great for champs like Janna who don't really poke or tank. Then relic shield gives health and sustain, great for champs who have to soak up damage and regain health.

UPfreelyJun 11, 20153 votes

i think this would be better served as a level breakpoint(lvl 9ish). alot of the supports that start relic never finish building it, the ones i play anyway, they usually prio on FH/locket. regardless, a good change even if it only comes with the finished item.

YOU BEEN WARNEDJun 11, 20153 votes

While I agree it would feel good and I support it because of that,

I'm opposed to it unless it's coming with a wave of "feel good" other support item QoL changes. Every support item in the game falls off in terms of gold generation late game because of it's mechanic.

item 3069 Sit by minions? Ain't no body got no time for that, gotta ward.

item 3092 Hit champions? What you, wanna die to get 30g you say? Remember it's only worth if you say so in all chat!

The relic shield line is the strongest and most gold generating item among the three, the other items should receive similar buffs if this was to go through.

DrukyulJun 12, 20151 votes

I would argue that FQC does have a "feel good" mechanic when you upgrade it, because it removes the cooldown from killing minions that the earlier parts of the item have.

YOU BEEN WARNEDJun 12, 20151 votes

Sure, same for item 3302 upgrade since it stores more charges. That aside, the gold generation is not addressed; you lose gold flow because you cannot constantly harass the enemy team.

Relic shield's gold on the other hand is much easier to obtain late game which is ridiculous given it's lead in terms of gold generation and it's lead in terms of lane strength.. It would be very unfair to do this change because it further shits on the other support item lines.

TreyenJun 11, 20152 votes

i've gotten to where i just sell the relic after it's paid for itself/lane phase is over. FotM isn't all that great and you'll rarely get to use the proc on it to heal/give free gold because teammates are numbskulls and hate getting extra money for nothing and spam clear waves when theres no pressure. It's almost like people have no idea how item's work even though they have been in the game for quite a long time now.

R110Jun 11, 20152 votes

I still wouldn't sell it though, as the item is still 90% gold efficient with it's raw stats (500HP and 10% CDR is decent). As you lose 33% of the gold invested I don't think it's worth it unless it's a 60 minute game. The active is also usefull.

TreyenJun 12, 20151 votes

I said "relic" not FotM. I don't ever upgrade the relic shield, just use it in lane phase where it's great, then sell it when i need a slot/a bit of cash later once it's paid for itself.

CoolKnightSTJun 11, 20152 votes

I like the idea, however the only thing I'm worried about is the use of item 3401 on range supports. Not to mention buffing Thresh indirectly.

ProfDrDeathJun 12, 20152 votes

If it was part of the Execute effect, it wouldn't work on ranged supports.

Puri Puri TaricJun 11, 20152 votes

well i use coin it gives so much more gold and utility i poop with it all over you face of the mountain users coin + 20% item cdr ms boost every 32 seconds in combination with righterous glory sanic boost all day

It Hertz When IPJun 11, 201512 votes

Punctuation and capitalization are your friend.

Puri Puri TaricJun 11, 20153 votes

its pretty obvious that i dont care cuz its the internet

HouseCat01Jun 11, 201517 votes

If you don't care, how can you expect us to respect your opinion?

MarhsallLee67Jun 12, 20152 votes

Don't try reasoning with it. Its age is probably still in the one-digit territory.

HouseCat01Jun 12, 20152 votes

what unit? days or weeks? or hours?

3TWarriorJun 11, 20152 votes

coin gives 2-3 per minion defeated, 1 extra if you have utility masteries. Kill even one minion and that pays for an entire wave of coin

6 minions = 12 gold (18 if you have utility mastery), relic shield = 42 per minute, face of the mountain = up to 108 gold per 2 minutes or if you consider it the same, it gives the same amount of gold per minute but lets you farm more for free depending upon cannon minion

that's a very, very large difference

Sozan5Jun 12, 20151 votes

Remember that Cannon minions spawn every 3 waves (which is 90 seconds).

Generally Relic will grant you up to 33 gold per minute (but it does increase slightly as the game progresses, due to the fact that minions are worth more gold). Coin will grant you up to 38 gold per minute. Spellthief Edge will grant you up to 42 gold per minute.

Targon Brace will grant you up to 53 gold per minute. Nomad's Medalion will grant you up to 51 gold per minute. Frostfang will grant you up to 72 gold per minute.

So yeah, I think it's somewhat comparable, though important thing to remember is that you can go back with Relic and you won't lose as much gold as from Coin. Also, Spellthief have the highest gold gain potential, but it's actually quite hard to reach.

Sire HippingtonJun 11, 20152 votes

sounds good, just one more change: have his ~~basic attacks~~ damage mark the minion for 1.5 seconds. If it's just basic attacks, it's of no use. usually in the mid/late, you want to clear out minionwaves as fast as possible, so you throw ranged waveclear at them. The chances to get into melee-AA range befor they die are pretty low, especially in a standoff/siege scenario as the enemie team would heavily punish you for walking up to the minions.

Deep Terror NamiJun 11, 20152 votes

You only have so many charges. If I Flay a wave, which gets marked? The 3 casters that are worth the least gold? Or the siege minion and melee?

This comment doesn't make much sense to me. The chances to get into melee range are not low, and it isn't useless to mark only a single one by using basic attacks. How do you think the item works right now?

Sire HippingtonJun 11, 20152 votes

closest minons first should work well for speels that hit multiple targets at the exact same time(Ludens works the same way i belive)

Also, later in the game the gold part of the item prettymuch doesn't work at all, which is exactly the problem.

ShosukoJun 12, 20152 votes

I support this! I never buy that item because it's gold farm is just retardedly bad late game.

This change could also help clear up communication in laning phase where you're unsure if the support is going to take the cannon minion so you go for it anyway... or worse let it die...

Silents429Jun 11, 20151 votes

Spur of the moment idea but what if the item just passively finished off minions when they were low enough so you didn't have to hit them but just be in range.

Then mid/late game everyone clears the wave before you proc thing can't happen, laning phase won't put you at as big of a risk etc.

Deep Terror NamiJun 11, 20159 votes

Sometimes you want to leave a minion alone to freeze a wave or to kill your own for denying xp/gold. If it was passive it would just be like Ancient Coin too; Relic Shield line is intended to be riskier than that while Ancient Coin line is the safest and most passive.

Silents429Jun 11, 20151 votes

Why would it be intended to be riskier when it has no advantage over the other items? The only stat it gives is Health.

LittleBlastJun 11, 20153 votes

It has the highest gold income i think, and it heals you and your adc, and almost garentees them a cannon minion.

Dr PoroJun 11, 20151 votes

I would love this! But FotM is currently already the best support item line (making tanky supports so strong), so I doubt this one will get a buff unless the other items get one too.

HouseCat01Jun 11, 20152 votes

I'm all for this! supports need more gold xD

PokladnicaZlaJun 11, 20151 votes

Maybe add abilities also apply the marc?

Deep Terror NamiJun 11, 20153 votes

Single target only, and only 1 mark can exist at a time, sure. Otherwise you have priority issues when hitting a wave, because siege minions are what you want most and casters are what you never want.