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Think Tristana's too OP? How about Requiring her to Upgrade like Kha'zix's Evolve?

Deep Terror Nami··1 votes·706 views

There was another thread about changing Trist's abilities to gain bonuses at max level just like Syndra. They suggested things like Explosive Shot only getting the on-kill explosion at max level and before that it merely does its active. My counter proposal was something like;

Nerf her abilities, and add them back through an Upgrade system when you level up R exactly how Kha'zix evolves abilities, so you can pick an upgrade at 6/11/16

  • (Q)Rapid Fire - Trists AA range now scales with champion level
  • (W)Rocket Jump - Resets on champion kill or assist
  • (E)Explosive Shot - Causes shrapnel to explode from the target when you deal the killing blow, and applies 1 Bullseye passive to each enemy hit {as opposed to on autoattack kill as currently, since you have to use an upgrade for it}
  • (R)Buster Shot - Range now scales with skill level, and has minor AD scaling
  • (Passive)Draw a Bead - Autoattacking a target puts 1 Bullseye on the target for 4 seconds. While the target has 3 stacks of Bullseye, autoattacks gain slight AP scaling and causes Explosive Shot to apply 10% Lifesteal to any allied autoattacks against that target. Explosive Shot resets current Bullseyes each tick of damage.

This is just off the top of my head, no number crunching done, but in general it looks like it would remove or reduce her early lane bully potential while also removing the world class accidental lane pushing that causes ppl to save points and not buy Explosive Shot. Could (with correct tweaking) also slightly weaken her late game scaling because she can only upgrade 3 abilities.

11 Comments

MrBuffington4 votes

I don't think Riot is particularly looking to do a full rework on Tristana; there are other priority champions that have been waiting in line for a while :P

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with Tristana's kit, I don't think there needs to be a huge change to her. She was fine for a long time, and nothing has really changed about her recently. Ghostcrawler made some comments on her; basically what I took from them is that her mid game is a lot stronger before since the ADC itemization changes allow her to go IE + SS without much consequence, since this is the same item/power curve as most other ADCs. Also, her early game isn't as weak because there aren't as many lane bullies anymore (ie. Lucian was changed to nerf his bullying capabilities). I've posted my thoughts on her a few days ago; I don't think she needs huge changes; if her early game is nerfed, it delays her getting her items, making her mid game weaker as a whole, and she becomes a lot like the old Tristana.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

I don't care if she's changed either, but I keep hearing people complain about her E pushing the lane and losing CS and her W being unfair for chase and escape when it resets. My suggestion isn't what I want, it's just a thought for how to quell the complaints without changing the kit.

MrBuffington1 votes

Oh, don't get me wrong, I care a great deal if and how Tristana is changed; she's one of my mains (I thought you knew this...), I just bought her rocket jump skin this morning (leftover RP, and it was on sale :D). Her E pushes your wave, but you learn to work around it and with it; it also provides you a way to harass your enemy since you don't have a long range poke skill (only autos and E, which is bound by your auto range).

I realize she needs to be nerfed for the sake of the game, and I think you have a fair idea of how to change her kit, though I can't say truly how it would feel without trying it. Realistically though, I don't think her changes will be too great; I could be very wrong in that though. Plus a lot of the Tristana complaints have been hushed with all the complaints about lore changes ;P

Serpents Embrace3 votes

I think the main problem with this is that it doesn't really lend itself to Tristana's identity - it just takes from Kha'Zix's.

From a balance point of view, yeah, giving Tristana some sort of gate for her abilities to reach their full potential may help curve her power in a more manageable way for the enemy team but I don't think stealing the evolve mechanic from Kha'Zix is the best way to do it.

It's a start, though.

Deep Terror Nami2 votes

Her AA range, W reset, and Explosive Shot forcing her to wave push and/or miss CS are exactly what everybody hates about her. Something like this fixes every single one of them to where they aren't all a problem at the same time, or a problem at all. I don't see any reason why any champion at all should have a monopoly on a skill; very few have something at least one other champion does not. Even Syndra shares similarities with Kha'zix because her abilities become more powerful, albeit at max skill level rather than each time you level your ultimate (only difference is instead of skill boost at 6/11/16, she can get them at 9/13/16/18). The difference between them is almost indistinguishable if you realize it, but nobody thinks Syndra stole from Kha'zix or vice versa.

Aamano2 votes

Just smacking other character's traits onto tristana isnt a fix

it just makes a mess and cheapens whatever character she's leeching from

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

So which champion is "cheapened by being leeched" currently; Kha'zix or Syndra? Literally the only difference between their Empowered/Evolved ability is what level it happens, and Syndra doesn't have an animation to show it happening.

Syndra gains an Empowered ability (assuming she puts 1 point in everything then maxes 1 at a time) at levels 9/13/16/18. Kha'zix gains an Evolved ability (assuming he levels his ultimate and uses the evolution) at levels 6/11/16

So please tell me, which one is stealing from the other? Does it cheapen the other? No, I don't think you believe it does, and I don't think you ever considered it because Syndra's doesn't prompt input from the player.

Edit: Also another one you might consider is Heimerdinger. He does the same thing except it's on a cooldown instead of passive.

KSHarrison1 votes

I agree this crowds the real estate of other champions, while simultaneously placing her further from a balanced state.

For example, her live state is essentially these changes assuming you take Q, W, E as your upgrades. From this perspective, a shortcut to effecting the same changes suggested would just be to nerf the range of her R. The only difference would be the potential to upgrade other lines on her kit, such as her passive or taking her ult over, say her iconic autoattack range scaling in Q, which opens up several new avenues to complicate the balancing of Tristana.

Her early laning phase would have to be rebalanced, her mid game is arguably weaker than ever. You would have to do a lot of changes. I'd rather see targeted, judicious adjustments. If you want to weaken her late game, hit her steroids; her safety, reduce her ranges; her early game, nerf early damage; her resets, remove them; etc.

Zhugan1 votes

Would only be a buff in the long run, given that you are giving those bonuses scaling.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I don't see a huge problem with tristana. poke her with skillshots early game and don't let her be relevant late game. People say she counters caitlyn because she outranges her late game, but I pick caitlyn in to tristana and just harass her enough to get a 2+level lead and an item lead and basically make her irrelevant. It may be worse in ranked play (I'm only level 21) but I think you beat tristana by focusing on harassing while cs'ing. I also play tristana a lot and love her kit. You get used to her e passive and time it to get your cs while pushing the lane while her jump let's you escape a gank easily. admittedly I heard she dominated the recent NA lcs play, but my guess is that happened because top players put so much importance on absolute farming instead of relative farming (it's okay if your adc misses some farm if it makes their adc miss more! )

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Would've been nice if the people who thought there are problems with Trist commented, instead of everybody that doesn't. Even though the very title addresses the former, I'm getting the latter. You're all preaching to the choir.

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