@Meddler: Is Kog going to be getting more work?

Rebonack·Oct 27, 2016·6 votes·3,465 views

Once the initial pre-season patch is done, I mean.

Or are we going to have to wait for 2019 for a VGU?

23 Comments

RiotMeddlerOct 27, 201611 votes

He seems a likely candidate for work later this year yeah.

NodirjonSattarovOct 27, 20164 votes

finally.....after a month of trying to open dialogue.

Hooked On PhonesOct 28, 20164 votes

KOGMAW CIRCLE JERK. EVERYONE GET IN HERE

RebonackOct 27, 20163 votes

{quoted}

He seems a likely candidate for work later this year yeah.

Thank you so much for the reply, I've been trying so long T_T

If you guys could try to focus on his mid-game power spike, that would be fantastic. For the Juggermaw comp to work, Kog needs a powerful mid game power spike. If his team is going to hedge on Kog doing all their damage, that damage needs to be formidable by the time team fights and larger skirmishes are beginning in earnest.

Weak early, very strong mid, solid late (weaker than Twitch or Vayne but stronger than lane bullies) is the ideal success curve for Kog to let him do what he's supposed to do.

NubNoobNewbieOct 31, 20161 votes

what is the point of kogmaw then... twitch actually has a good early. If you trade using auto w auto e not many adcs can just walk it off.. and vayne sometimes hit her spike when she gets ult. i'd say vayne is actually not too bad early. so if kogmaw cant out scale them late game, or just peak during mid game, he would just become a redundant hero as most adc get some sort of dmg spike during mid game beside i think he was meant to be a hyper carry... peaking mid game just makes no sense.

RebonackOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

what is the point of kogmaw then... twitch actually has a good early. If you trade using auto w auto e not many adcs can just walk it off.. and vayne sometimes hit her spike when she gets ult. i'd say vayne is actually not too bad early. so if kogmaw cant out scale them late game, or just peak during mid game, he would just become a redundant hero as most adc get some sort of dmg spike during mid game beside i think he was meant to be a hyper carry... peaking mid game just makes no sense.

His early game could be improved as well, really. As long as he isn't comparable in strength to the lane bullies he's fine on that front.

Different champions have different power curves. Being an absolute monster with just one item (Trinity most recently, old Madred's if we look back further) meant that Kog could function as the damage centerpiece in a team that otherwise lacked damage. He supplied enough to make up for everything else when he was working properly. Ideally Kog's team would dominate the team fight phase and close the game out before the 40-45 minute mark when actual hyper-carries really start coming into their own.

With actual hyper-carries building your whole team around them is a terrible plan since they typically aren't game changing enough by mid-game. In an organized setting, champs like Twitch and Vayne are more or less the back-up plan. You draft a team with plenty of damage that can hold its own. Hopefully you win the game before they kick in, but if the game stalls then you've basically got an auto-win once they hit a full item build.

And Kog has never been a hyper-carry. Or at least ADC Kog isn't. The fact that Riot keeps saying that only makes it clear that they don't really understand what makes Kog (or the Juggermaw comp) work. If Riot wanted to totally cast aside the whole Juggermaw concept then yeah, sure, make Kog an actual hyper-carry. Give him a new passive that allows his OnHit effects to crit and lifesteal. That would be more than sufficient to give him an actual hyper-carry curve.

This is why I've been trying to strike up actual dialog with Riot on Kog. There's a great deal of confusion over what he is and what he's supposed to be. The two visions they keep describing for him (super late game scaler and Juggermaw) are mutually exclusive. Unless, of course, they give him a super-powerful mid game and an even stronger late game. But that would just net him nerfs.

NubNoobNewbieNov 3, 20161 votes

I think the identity of kog is solely dependent on Riot... there is no "suppose to"..there is no "properly"... on hit kogmaw late game is literally crazy, other than bursting him with insane crits or just stun locking him, not many can stand against him. I know hyper carrys should have a very weak early game due to their late game dominance.. but coming online at the 40 minute mark is just ridiculous. Basically all adc come online when they hit 2 or 3 items disregarding boots, if a twitch is going ghost blade, then he can either get online after hurricane or after hurricane + ie; a vayne is not that diffferent, she can get online with only 2 items, or 3 to make it save (if hes going bork instead of static ie). With so many early-mid game dominate adc, it is nice to see some resurgence of late game carrys. It will be nice if kogmaw is included.

Kog And BallsOct 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He seems a likely candidate for work later this year yeah.

This is satisfactory.

I only ask that you do one thing, talk to the Kog community about how we feel about him when his time comes. Lets not have a repeat of this season for Kog.

A very vocal minority have come out since 6.19 to speak their thoughts and opinions and we understand you can not possibly satisfy everyone's desires for the champion, but please speak with us so that we can help you achieve a satisfactory state of balance in the future.

Zero Skill TankOct 27, 20163 votes

Could I hijack the post to ask if you also keep your eyes on Teemo? Several PBE changes seem to hurt him real bad, like new shroom-denial tools and Edge of the Night, which he has really hard time outplaying, considering that he only has two abilities that pop spell shields.

Pierce The VealOct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Could I hijack the post to ask if you also keep your eyes on Teemo? Several PBE changes seem to hurt him real bad, like new shroom-denial tools and Edge of the Night, which he has really hard time outplaying, considering that he only has two abilities that pop spell shields.

Only real way is to buff his damage, which I doubt they want to do.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 27, 20162 votes

I think kog needs a VGU more than any marksman in the game. well other than urgot but urgot is more of a bruiser really. idk where is he on the VGU priority list. but i'd put him somewhere near irelia.

RebonackOct 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think kog needs a VGU more than any marksman in the game. well other than urgot but urgot is more of a bruiser really. idk where is he on the VGU priority list. but i'd put him somewhere near irelia.

I would argue that Corki needs the visual side of the VGU more than Kog to bring him in line with the other Yordles, but yea, Kog is pretty bad. Honestly Corki would be fine with just a few number tweaks. Or possibly making his passive do something other than give him a weakness. But Kog's kit is a mess especially now that Riot has assured us they'll drop the hammer on AP Kog if he's ever good.

That makes me think he needs a Yi-level VGU.

paperbIadeOct 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He seems a likely candidate for work later this year yeah.

or bring back ap kogmaw

AbyssphereOct 27, 20162 votes

They already did. He's very good mid right now.

paperbIadeOct 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They already did. He's very good mid right now.

nope his ult is a execution

AbyssphereOct 27, 20162 votes

Lol. Well next time they change AP Kog it'll be a nerf sooooo.

ErablierOct 27, 20161 votes

How big of work? Simple balance changes or something much bigger (since his win rate dropped like a rock once he went back to his old self)

NodirjonSattarovOct 27, 20164 votes

current kog is nothing like old kog

Hooked On PhonesOct 28, 20161 votes

He's talking about pre-rework kog'maw ya dingus

UnbornHereticOct 28, 20161 votes

The problem is that he does not have much of a defining characteristic besides being good against most tanks. Jinx is just the better-against-squishies Kog'Maw because her Q is better than Kog's W in every way except not being as good against tanks, her E is hard cc so she gets peel as opposed to his slow, her ult is less spammable but more useful in most cases than Kog's ult, and her W is Kog's Q except with a slow, more damage, and not as good against tanks.

NubNoobNewbieOct 31, 20161 votes

yea ad kogmaw feels super dull right now... not only does he lack personality, but he also has a low win rate... hope the season change and the VGU will do him some good... at least make him stand out and keep his supposed hyper carry identity.

YumeiiOct 27, 20164 votes

Hopefully Kog'Maw's VGU will finally give him some of that beautiful violet coloration. Would love to see Kog'Maw look like a real Void creature that spits actual Void Ooze instead of this puke green stuff.

I'm also hoping they'll look into that armor/resist shredding suggestion you've been throwing out the last several weeks. Definitely a unique mechanic that hasn't been fully explored yet, and totally fits with Kog's acidic theme.

RebonackOct 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully Kog'Maw's VGU will finally give him some of that beautiful violet coloration. Would love to see Kog'Maw look like a real Void creature that spits actual Void Ooze instead of this puke green stuff.

I'm also hoping they'll look into that armor/resist shredding suggestion you've been throwing out the last several weeks. Definitely a unique mechanic that hasn't been fully explored yet, and totally fits with Kog's acidic theme.

I would be totally okay with Riot bringing Kog more in line with the rest of the Void critters in terms of appearance. There's a really great mockup I ran across a while back, hang on...

There it is.