Boards›Gameplay

Can We All Be Serious For A Moment?

ZILLAGULA··93 votes·4,668 views

Katarina is dumb. Really fucking dumb. I'll get downvoted to hell by the Katarina mains probably, but seriously...

Katarina has evolved into a control mage/assassin, she does incredible amounts of damage and she can start out buying a item 3102 or item 3068 without losing much of that damage.

I've played the new Katarina for quite a while now and she works similiar to Ryze in the sense that if you have learned her combos you're basically unstoppable.

The combo I find myself using the most is: E to a minion - W - Q - (catch dagger from w) - E to Q dagger which will land close to the enemy laner, - E when they try to flash away This combo has absolutely 0 counterplay and you can expect to do up to half of the enemies hp at level 3.

Another combo I can't forget is E to a minion or enemy champion - W - R - Spin until you catch your W - jump to the enemy with the reset - Q again. This combo has very little counterplay too. She has great waveclear, great damage, she even has a bit of bulk. The only thing she lacks is CC, but she rushes item 3146 or item 3116 which gives her amazing damage output while also giving her CC.

Also, may I just add how big of a powerspike she gets by buying item 3146 ... It's absolutely incredible. She still has that roaming potential which allows her to get countless double kills at bottom.

It feels like Katarina's laning phase is 100% determined on how well the Katarina plays and not how well the enemy plays. If she doesn't mess up, she will win the laning phase. You simply can't outplay her due to her damage. I feel like she deserves a nerf.

77 Comments

Fisher No Chains12 votes

Just revert the last (unnecessary) buff to her passive damage. Her passive already dealt a lot of damage, and some people on the boards also complained about Katarina not being in need of buffs. I know it was a very small buff, but I think that her passive didn't need buffs at all.

What really bothers me, more than Kata, is that Gunblade targeted damage and slow on a 40 seconds cd, but that's another point.

ZILLAGULA2 votes

Yeah, gunblade is quite the item. If you rush it by the time you get it, it actually feels like an extra ability. It's as powerful as a Q

SweedishGunner1 votes

250 base damage (if I remember correctly) is insane.

Fisher No Chains4 votes

Having 250 + 30% AP damage and a slow is a very huge powerspike, especially if you build it as first item. If you're a squishy mage and you miss your cc (and you will, unless Kata is dumb) she doesn't even need her ult to kill you, just Q Gunblade E W E and you're 90% of times dead.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

I mean, it's a gun with a blade on the end. It's gonna hurt. :P

Ap Mid Burst8 votes

TBH if you avoid her daggers her damage is cut in half. Just walk forward when she q's to you

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

Then she just W's lmao.

Assassins also shouldn't be able to zone and force people into areas. Zed has proven a problem in the past due to this.

Ap Mid Burst2 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQEPhp1J,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-01-06T21:08:14.720+0000)

Then she just W's lmao.

Assassins also shouldn't be able to zone and force people into areas. Zed has proven a problem in the past due to this.

Ok, you avoided her dagger so she w's... then you avoid that dagger. Not that hard.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

First off, as I suspected, you're a Katarina main, so.......

The hitboxes of her daggers are enormous. If you move forward to dodge the Q you will be hit by the W, or in the very least come within her ult radius and E range. Playing against Katarina is zero fun because she keeps blinking around like a madman and you have to dodge and weave just to CS. It's obnoxious and introduces new problems with her gameplay.

I'll always maintain that assassins should not have zone control and be able to force you away, like Katarina does. She often dictates where you are allowed to move, and gains massive mobility by virtue of that.

Ap Mid Burst1 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQEPhp1J,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-07T02:20:23.935+0000)

First off, as I suspected, you're a Katarina main, so.......

The hitboxes of her daggers are enormous. If you move forward to dodge the Q you will be hit by the W, or in the very least come within her ult radius and E range. Playing against Katarina is zero fun because she keeps blinking around like a madman and you have to dodge and weave just to CS. It's obnoxious and introduces new problems with her gameplay.

I'll always maintain that assassins should not have zone control and be able to force you away, like Katarina does. She often dictates where you are allowed to move, and gains massive mobility by virtue of that.

I know Katarina needs nerfs, but the original post is pretty inaccurate. The only thing I think she needs nerfs is her dagger hitbox and her e damage.

SerBlaise7 votes

Very few people in bronze/silver elo have figured her out yet. IMO, I've only seen two good kats, but they absolutely destroyed.

Honestly I'd try to learn her but I hate the feeling of her new Q and W; Q having a random landing position and W being delayed. But I guess it hasn't bothered other people as much.

And, though I'll probably get downvoted for this, a pretty clear counterplay that I can see is "don't go near the dagger". As you said, she's now a control/zoning assassin; that means the counterplay will inherently be to avoid the zones she's controlling.

Pale Pirate1 votes

Q falls behind the target. W is delayed, but this isn't too bothersome, and you can cast if right before ulting.

SerBlaise1 votes

casting before ulting seems most logical I agree. Other than that and for wave clear though...how else do you use it offensively?

ZILLAGULA1 votes

If you E on an enemy champion, then instantly throw a W in the air, catch it and get the reset, that is very offensive.

SerBlaise1 votes

I find the enemy is usually out of range of the W damage by then. It's a full 1.25 seconds til it drops. I agree the reset is useful...just not damaging in most laning scenarios.

TheCharmingCharm1 votes

I normally Q the enemy, jump to them and instantly use w, grab my dagger from my Q and E them from the reset and then pick up my W dagger as soon as it falls. Then from there i usually auto attack them until they try to flash away or something. thats what i do at lvl 3 and i normally get first blood :P

ZILLAGULA1 votes

No, you are not doing direct damage with your W but you're still using the ability offensively.

TheOnlyJoe32 votes

Q isn't random at all, always falls 350 units behind target

Dynamiku Entry1 votes

Behind the target its initially cast. I think this guy is thrown off when the q bounces to other targets then jumps back to behind the first one he hit. Old q would drop on last target hit, don't think they have gotten used to the change but it isn't random as said.

TheOnlyJoe1 votes

Old Q wouldn't drop at all though?

Dynamiku Entry1 votes

It didn't, they're right. I must have been mistaken. But "the buck stops there"

SerBlaise1 votes

if you Q to minions that switch directions basically "at random", does it really matter? "Behind" is a very unpredictable thing in league.

Quepha9 votes

{quoted}

if you Q to minions that switch directions basically "at random", does it really matter? "Behind" is a very unpredictable thing in league.

It's "behind" from the perspective of Katarina when she threw the dagger, it's always the opposite side from where she was standing when she cast the spell.

not "behind" from the perspective of the target where their back was facing.

SerBlaise2 votes

ahhhh... ok. so does it calculate from the last minion hit or from the first? Will moving around while it's bouncing still affect it?

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

ahhhh... ok. so does it calculate from the last minion hit or from the first? Will moving around while it's bouncing still affect it?

first enemy hit.

moving after the throw should not affect it.

Rikari5 votes

you're talking about how katarina isn't op when you're just now learning how she works,i hate people like you

SerBlaise1 votes

please point out where I said she isn't OP. And then stop hating people over a video game.

woodvsmurph6 votes

"Can we all be serious for a moment?" Shaco : No

Pale Pirate4 votes

New Riven/Yasuo.

RavenMagus3 votes

I upvoted you :)

I actually agree, Katarina's early game power is way too insane right now. Her lv 3 all in is extremely strong; she's basically Riven except AP - she hits powerspikes as early and as powerful as Riven does, and proves a very potent threat at levels 2-5.

That being said, she's easily shut down late game by the Exhaust/Locket/Redemption support trifecta. Absolutely any support can (and probably will) have those and they completely destroy her ability to do anything in teamfights.

Slimegoon3 votes

If I can destroy Zac's blobs, Poppy's shield, Zyra's plants, etc., why can't I destroy Kat's daggers?

japhib10 votes

You can't destroy Bard's shrines or Thresh's souls though ...

What would be the point of destroying them? If you could destroy them in 1 auto-attack, Kat couldn't play the game. If it took 2 or 3, it would be really weirdly balanced because melee bruisers with low range and low attack speed would be extra vulnerable to them, while ADC's (the champs that assassins like Kat are meant to kill) with high range and high attack speed, would be a hard counter to Kat.

Ahristocats1 votes

should be destroyed by walking into it, that way if you dash into them they're destroyed

japhib3 votes

I can see why that would seem nice when playing against Kat, but if it were that easy, Kat would be useless AF. Enemies have to be close to the daggers to take damage from them anyway so if it was just a matter of walking another teemo or two closer to the dagger to destroy them, Kat's windows of being able to do damage would be so small that she'd most likely need further buffs to her amount of damage done.

SUPERX4PANDA6 votes

I dont know if you meant chimes or shrines from W, but you can walk over Bard's W to destroy it

6Sfool3 votes

Want to beat Kat? Pick Velkoz , and learn to predict.

She's a bit overtuned, but she has so much counterplay. Probably the only cahmpions that can't retaliate are melees with no cc, but there aren't many of them in mid.

Suspicious Xebra3 votes

There is plenty of counterplays. She is very predictable (oh look a dagger on the ground, wonder what she is gonna do with that..). You can deny her farm early on very easy. Does she have the potential to get very strong? Yes, but if she doesn't get fed (and don't tell me "I didn't feed her, she left my lane and fed off X lane" because then that is either you not pinging MIA/following, or you have teammates with poor map awareness) she isn't a big deal. Diana Fizz Fiddlesticks Leblanc Lissandra Heimerdinger

Revali3 votes

ive... never had an issue as a katarina player, then again maybe I haven't faced a good one, usually just out burst her with Ekko item 3146 before she has time to even setup her daggers.

a special one3 votes

lol what no.... shes in a good spot but definitely not OP

ZILLAGULA2 votes

What makes you say that?

a special one2 votes

48% win rate in plat+

TeCoolMage2 votes

QE a champion as close to the Q dagger as possible before it lands, WR, catch both daggers at nearly the same time, EQ

Lucian Waifu2 votes

Let start by asking what players stay close to your dagger from your Q in the first place. The only problem I had against her is that her jump range to her dagger is much higher than before, but her dagger jump pre-6 I was able to kill her easy because she didn't think I would bait the jump and then Charm her with Ahri.

Elisheva2 votes

Downvoted by a noob who shits on every katarina they fight against :)

zaire902 votes

if i remember correctly when the rework 1st came out everyone was saying shes balanced and she actually takes skill now unlike the old one, but now everyones complaining about her

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I'm sick of getting all in-ed lvl 3 because I happened to step outside of my turret range. The last time I managed to charm her under my turret, she still killed me and shunpoed out.

Her early damage is ridiculous, she can 100-0 almost everyone with her e w e q e, the fact that she can shunpo 3 times in a lvl 3 engagement is ridiculous, and most mid laners at that point don't have enough movement speed to evade her w dagger.

Gut her base damage but buff her snowball plz

KraDEsluP2821 votes

i fought against her level 2 with Zed

my Q did 75 damage to her.

with those knifes she can teleport to me, she did 175 damage to me at LEVEL 2.

could you possibly imagine how it went level 6?

inplane1 votes

I like how Katarina is more of a control and disruption mage than Taliyah, a champ who was created to zone people out through the use of a minefield and directional shove. Stepping on Taliyah's minefield has no threat whatsoever ever since patch 6.14. Step near Katarina's blades though? Oh boy. You better hope you have at least 2 MR items.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

just CC her before she can catch her daggers.

the counterplay to Kata is just to pay attention to the delay in her daggers fall times. They never change.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by ZILLAGULA

You know what I really fucking hate about promotions?
Gameplay54 comments
164
votes
Why Duskblade Is The Most Broken Item In The Game
Gameplay72 comments
129
votes
Can we talk about Ahri??
Gameplay160 comments
78
votes
Ahri Hasn't Been Getting Attention For Over a Week
Memes & Games68 comments
58
votes
AMAZING. New patch.
Gameplay29 comments
51
votes
Why does this exist
Gameplay29 comments
33
votes