"Ahri is more appealing than Urgot for most players, so we expct Ahri to be more popular than Urgot"

Arabed·Oct 8, 2015·70 votes·4,069 views

Ahri is more appealing because she is stronger. If you want to test this out nerf ahri to urgots winrate and buff urgot to ahris winrate. Then lets see which is more appealing.

Also, people will always play stronger champions because they want to win. Not saying everyone will, but a lot of people will. That is why when a champion is overbuffed you will see a spike in their winrate and popularity. Take lux for an example, before they buffed her she had a ~50% winrate and 5%-8% popularity. After they buffed her she spiked to 15% popularity and 53% winrate. Basically, because she is stronger more people are playing her. Take skarner as another example. When that champion was buffed and his winrate spiked to 60%, people who never played that champion before played him if he wasn't banned.

80 Comments

Ser GarlandOct 8, 201534 votes

{quoted}

Ahri is more appealing because she is stronger. If you want to test this out nerf ahri to urgots winrate and buff urgot to ahris winrate. Then lets see which is more appealing.

Also, people will always play stronger champions because they want to win. Not saying everyone will, but a lot of people will. That is why when a champion is overbuffed you will see a spike in their winrate and popularity. Take lux for an example, before they buffed her she had a ~50% winrate and 5%-8% popularity. After they buffed her she spiked to 15% popularity and 53% winrate. Basically, because she is stronger more people are playing her. Take skarner as another example. When that champion was buffed and his winrate spiked to 60%, people who never played that champion before played him if he wasn't banned.

Or... OR... a bunch of lux mains re logged on to play their favourite champion after the buff.

There's always going to be a couple of people who only play FoTM champs. But that margin is pretty small in the long stretch of things.

Urgot is unpopular because of his looks.I bet you there are a ton more fans of Anime that play league, then fans of Wilfred Brimley in The Thing.

Then there's champion identity.

Ahri: She's a kite mage that you take mid. Simple mage build, nothing special, a flexible kit that anyone can understand and pick up.

Urgot: he's an Anti-carry, anti-tank, anti-anti Marksman that you take... Top? Mid? Bottom? You build him tanky but he does a ton of damage, he scales well with... Mana? Urgot is all over the place. A lot of his success comes from a bunch of invisible stats that only experience Urgot players can understand.

And that's why Ahri's more popular. The mobility meta only somewhat effects this.

Prospector PeteOct 8, 201520 votes

I bet you there are a ton more fans of Anime that play league, then fans of Wilfred Brimley in The Thing.

LOL

Silents429Oct 8, 20157 votes

Yeah I won't lie I avoided Urgot for 3 years because of his appearance, and I know at least 5 people who won't play him for the same reason.

139385129141xOct 9, 20155 votes

That's a dumb reason. Urgot is sexy and u know it.

BorblandOct 9, 20154 votes

They removed his nipples, so this argument is invalid now :X

xFrostKnightxOct 9, 20151 votes

=/ GG they nerfed his nipples.

I wonder if they will do a Sion level VU for Urgot.

WestonbirtOct 9, 20152 votes

Honestly, they already did a slight VU and he looks fine. Old Sion REALLY, REALLY looked like shit. It's hard to fathom just how ridiculously bad he looked.

Urgot might look a little funky but his design is not uninteresting. What mainly lacks I feel is smoother animation, especially walking.

Troll for TrumpOct 9, 20151 votes

Graves can quit smoking, but urgot can't have nipples?!?!??!?!

ArabedOct 9, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENXTBtRx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-08T19:42:45.861+0000)

Or... OR... a bunch of lux mains re logged on to play their favourite champion after the buff.

A person who mains a champion plays him even when he's trash. So lux went from 8% popularity to 15% popularity because "lux mains" are coming back? The lux mains are the 8%, the other 7% are people who are only playing her because she is strong.

AbyssphereOct 9, 20155 votes

{quoted}

A person who mains a champion plays him even when he's trash. So lux went from 8% popularity to 15% popularity because "lux mains" are coming back? The lux mains are the 8%, the other 7% are people who are only playing her because she is strong.

Hardly. League isn't split between "Mains" and "Freelo abusers". There are a lot of people in between that. I don't think Lux mains are picking her up again, because she certainly was not bad enough to drop before her buffs, but I think a lot of "I like Lux a decent bit but why use her over X" people are back.

BayirdacusOct 9, 20152 votes

Do you understand how long this game has been around? I could have played 1,000 games with Lux years ago, and consider myself a "Lux main", but maybe I didn't play her for a few months and wanted to try out her new buffs.

WestonbirtOct 9, 20151 votes

The biggest problem Urgot has is that he is very misleading :

He is still designated as a Marskman/Fighter even though people who know what they're doing play him top. That's quite the main problem he has I feel, cause it affects everything else. People don't know what to build on him, and he really suffers from the lack of caster AD itemization, he can barely build 4 items and has very little ability to vary himself depending on the situation unless you build him as an off-tank where you can pick from the giant treasure trove of tank items.

CISTERNOct 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENXTBtRx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-08T19:42:45.861+0000)

Or... OR... a bunch of lux mains re logged on to play their favourite champion after the buff.

There's always going to be a couple of people who only play FoTM champs. But that margin is pretty small in the long stretch of things.

Urgot is unpopular because of his looks.I bet you there are a ton more fans of Anime that play league, then fans of Wilfred Brimley in The Thing.

Then there's champion identity.

Ahri: She's a kite mage that you take mid. Simple mage build, nothing special, a flexible kit that anyone can understand and pick up.

Urgot: he's an Anti-carry, anti-tank, anti-anti Marksman that you take... Top? Mid? Bottom? You build him tanky but he does a ton of damage, he scales well with... Mana? Urgot is all over the place. A lot of his success comes from a bunch of invisible stats that only experience Urgot players can understand.

And that's why Ahri's more popular. The mobility meta only somewhat effects this.

Ahri can kite endlessly with near zero counter play vs meele thats why ahri remains toxic

A5W9VPIhgQOct 10, 20151 votes

wait what? kiting is toxic now? are you joking?

MatezoideOct 8, 201514 votes

http://cdn.dota2.com/apps/dota2/images/heroes/pudge_vert.jpg

KONO RUBICK DAOct 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://cdn.dota2.com/apps/dota2/images/heroes/pudge_vert.jpg

why is pudge here?

Axis the DragonOct 8, 201513 votes

Probably because he's incredibly popular despite being ugly as shit

OshletOct 9, 20151 votes

Isn't pudge played a fair bit 'cos Dendi plays him, and people want to be like Dendi?

Either that or its his awesome VO, a thing which urgot doesn't really possess.

BIG BAD AXE MANOct 8, 201512 votes

i'm pretty sure ahri is more popular because she has bigger tits than urgot.

EnosetcOct 8, 20155 votes

{quoted}

i'm pretty sure ahri is more popular because she has bigger tits than urgot.

idk man urgot is pretty much a giant titty from the neck down

luckmalloryOct 8, 20158 votes

It's because Ahri is sexy and Urgot is ugly tho

WarlockLawOct 8, 20156 votes

The point of that statement-----------------------> Your head.

Seriously though the example may have been bad, but the point was that some people play champions for reasons other than strength (might surprise you). Some people play kits that are fun, some play champions because they have a little something they like. Urgot is boring kit wise with an outdated model; Ahri suffers from neither issue. There is a reason Battle Bunny Riven and Frostblade Irelia ate the most popular skins for those champions.

ArabedOct 9, 20152 votes

You are repeating what I said. I said most people, not all. You clearly don't remember when urgot was buffed and was in every game bot lane. Hell, there was a point when he was played mid lane in the lcs. Doesn't matter how boring or ugly a champ is, they will be played if they are strong.

WarlockLawOct 9, 20151 votes

If Ahri and Urgot were at roughly the same power level, then Arhi would have a much higher play rate than Urgot. That is what I was trying to say. Riot was trying to say the consider how much people like a champion and tend to play them regardless of whether or not they are good.

ArabedOct 10, 20151 votes

This I agree with.

AbyssphereOct 8, 20155 votes

Well obviously Ahri's popularity is partly down to her being strong and Urgot's unpopularity is partly down to him being weak, but you can't seriously believe that Ahri as a character (League's premier waifu and fanart receiver) would be as popular as Urgot (whose whole point is... being really ugly?) if they were at the same power level, particularly given how much people love a variety of mechanics in her kit (charm, mobility) while Urgot has a lot of stuff that doesn't feel very fun even when it's strong.

I mean there are a ton of champions who are as powerful as Ahri but they're not all as popular as she is. There's reasons for that.

YCitizenSnipsYOct 9, 20154 votes

Looks don't have nearly as much to do with champion popularity as power does. After Ahri's initial nerfs + charm change in late season 3 her pick rate dropped to like 3-4% and she only became popular again when she was changed again in season 5.

Also people said Gragas was "too ugly" to be popular right before he became one of the most popular mids in the game, and afterwards being one of the most popular junglers. This whole too ugly argument is really taken out of context.

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but i certainly doesn't affect popularity to the degree you make it out too. Nidalee is in appearance is every bit as attractive as Ahri, and through in game dialog even more promiscuous. Look at Nidalee's pick rate http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/ why aren't all these Ahri players players playing Nidalee for the same reason? Because Strength of the champion is still the most prominent reason for a champion to be picked.

Chuck CharlesOct 8, 20154 votes

i hardly believe people only play champions because of their strength. thats definitely a huge factor of why people play champions, but if it was solely about strength, people would all commit to learning the strongest champions only. you would see most mid laners learning how to master Azir, adc mains playing draven constantly. People play champions because they like them and their playstyle. generally it comes down to how easy is a champion to understand. all champions can be understood, but usually people will feel a stronger understanding with some over others.

I personally play a lot of Lucian, not because he's strong right now, but because his kit fits my playstyle and I like his character. he's a spiteful bad ass who's mad over his wife getting her soul sucked out. Could I play Vayne every game? sure, but I'm not going to. I don't like her play style or her character or anything about her. she's just not...me?

DeynaTaggerungOct 8, 20153 votes

Specific example aside the point is that there are many more factors to pickrate than actual power. Liking the looks, kit, feel, responsiveness, etc of a champ are what will make me play them "power" aside. And as they mentioned, perceived power and actual power can oftentimes be two very different things.

HayRossOct 8, 20153 votes

I'd say it's pretty logical that Ahri is more appealing than Urgot

I mean, a young woman is FAR more attractive than the waste of a butcher's shop being piled onto some robotic legs

WalkingInACircleOct 9, 20153 votes

Or, y'know, her kit is fun to use. Mobile, fair skillshots, outplay potential, carry style champion. Urgot by comparison seems more about zoning opponents.

If your reasoning was correct, the highest winrate champions would be the most popular. They're not. Heck, Lee Sin has lower than 48% winrate and is over twice as popular as the next jungler.

ArabedOct 10, 20151 votes

I'm not saying winrate means strength. I'm responding to what riot was saying when it comes down to ahri being more appealing than urgot. I agree with riot when they said 50% winrate isn't balanced. All I'm saying is the spike in power will cause popularity to increase just because they are stronger than they were.

PyrokineticmageOct 9, 20153 votes

I'm just going to say that I'd trade a Urgot ADC for an Ezreal ADC 100% of the time. This is coming from a jungle main. Ezreal is a much worse ADC than Urgot but Ezreal's play rate is signifigantly higher. Why? because of his looks.

Why I think Ezreal sucks. He doesn't scale better than other ADCs and he is very mana hungry and his poke is meh for an early game ADC.

IcyPepperOct 8, 20152 votes

Ahri is more appealing because she is stronger.

I wouldn't say it's just her strength, you know.

I'm sure there's something else involved.

Slamurai JackOct 8, 20152 votes

Certain champions will never see large amounts of play unless Riot makes them OP and certain champions will always see large amounts of play unless they're complete shit. Lissandra Rammus Ryze Skarner Warwick Veigar Twitch Zilean Urgot Kayle Sivir are good examples of the former. Ahri Ezreal Jinx MasterYi Lucian LeeSin Riven Rengar Vayne Yasuo Zed are good examples of the latter.

KatCraftOct 10, 20151 votes

uhh what's wrong with Lissandra. Her visual style is pretty good. You should replace her and Sivir with Heimerdinger and Poppy.

Slamurai JackOct 10, 20151 votes

They can't even get people to play Heimer and Poppy even when they are OP. Lissandra and Sivir however see almost no play unless the pros are using them. Especially Lissandra. She was in every game for a while, got nerfed slightly, and then immediately disappeared.

AnomanderOct 8, 20152 votes

Ahri is also a super hot fox girl..... Where as urgot is a mechanical crab monstrosity. People in general prefer the cute over the fugly. This accounts for a lot of ahris pick rate even when she is nerfed to oblivion. And that is is what they are saying.

Olath QuortekOct 9, 20152 votes

For the record I don't really disagree with everything that you said... but your delusional if you think people aren't swayed by the fact that Ahri is appealing because she actually is appealing and Urgot isn't because he actually isn't... People really are that dumb bro... just sayin... XD

Reaper SorakaOct 9, 20152 votes

I prefer Ahri over Urgot because I don't want to play a blob of dead flesh stitched together. Urgot could be a great pick for all I know, I probably won't find out because of his visual.

Now if you made him look like Heartseeker Varus...

LVL 5 POROOct 9, 20152 votes

I'd still play her if she was olafed because shes my main and I like her visual, lore, and gameplay. Also, Ahri isnt strong. If you can dodge a skillshot you just avoided 50% of the damage in her kit. But sadly, everyone that complains about her is wood 5 and unable to do so.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 9, 20151 votes

Ahri is appealing for a lot of reasons, not just being stronger.

Comparative to urgot, she has a lot of skins and many ways to customize your champion. Urogt only has a few. Aesthetically, she's prettier than Urgot. VO-wise, she's more gentle on the ears than Urgot's gravely "I am about to die" voice. Kit-wise, many people find her dash-and-slash AP style more enjoyable than Urgot's target-locked playstyle.

Yes, people will always play champions strictly for power. This is nothing new. But don't discredit how many play for the simple enjoyment of a character. As one last example: Nobody. NOBODY played Old Trundle. He wasn't bad in any sort of kit sense (He was actually insanely strong and a sleeper pick) but his grotesque appearance turned off many, MANY players.

GlockHammerOct 9, 20151 votes

Exacly, Riot logic is always backward most of the times.

TwoDOct 9, 20151 votes

Taric is more appealing than Ahri , so why the other way around.

KatCraftOct 9, 20151 votes

League is a game where you can make most champions work if you play well, and most people will lean towards what is visually and stylistically pleasing as well as fun to play.

Even the most hardcore players ultimately play League for enjoyment, and a champion that looks and feels good to play will always be a factor. Yasuo is a very popular pick largely for this reason.

AbyssionKnightOct 9, 20151 votes

I agree strength does matter a lot for what champions are or are not played, however how a champion is perceived does indeed effect popularity. It's part of how some champions become 'sleeper op'. They are either ugly, or the community perceives them as bad champions, so they remain oblivious to the strength of those champions...right up until someone popular exposes the champions strength. The silly things happen, like Urgot becoming 'urgod', despite receiving no real changes at the time.

ABlueQuakerOct 10, 20151 votes

Wasn't Urgot pick/ban for a while earlier this Season? He literally hasn't even had any nerfs since then...

Bouncemaster ZacOct 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Blue Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENXTBtRx,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2015-10-10T08:53:35.991+0000)

Wasn't Urgot pick/ban for a while earlier this Season? He literally hasn't even had any nerfs since then...

That was because people realized Urgot hard-counters Zed. Zed ults Urgot, Urgot pops his shield and ults him back. Urgot wins the trade in 100% of cases.

ABlueQuakerOct 10, 20151 votes

Yeah, but he was even being played in Duo Bot lanes during the mid-season invitational.

EDIT: Can confirm - he got played in 2 out of 5 games in the Grand Final Bo5 of the Mid-Season Invitational. He was played extensively as a Bottom Lane AD Carry throughout the tournament.

The Sword SaintOct 10, 20151 votes

Irrelevant. The quoted comment only meant one thing - that they account for how appealing a champ is when they look at popularity. That's it. Don't try and read into it anymore than that.