I feel as if there are better ways to execute tryndamere's gameplay

dontspinbutwin··3 votes·1,516 views

Before we get into this, no tryndamere hasn't suddenly stomped me one game which led me to cry on boards. I've always thought certain champions needed some work, specifically jax and tryndamere. Reason being is that there should be some plays and options between the fighting champions, and a margin of error for both.

For example, lets take someone like teemo. He isn't strong, but hes good at his role: which is lane poke and map pressure. Lets say teemo is fighting someone like olaf. If teemo keeps his distance and blinds olaf's autos, then teemo can win. However, olaf can do a few actions. He could max Q and try to poke down teemo, and sustain with his w on minions. He could run up to teemo, bait out teemos blind, then begin his autos. There are options on both sides, and whoever predicts the other's playstyle first tends to have an advantage.

This reason is why many players hate champions such as yasuo, renekton, irelia, akali, etc. The ball is in their court much of the time, and while there are a few dueling potentials for the opposing player, as skill level increases, it becomes more difficult to execute such fights. However, my point is, there still is a chance to fight, despite being small.

For example, I play a lot of illaoi. One of illaois best matchups is vs renekton, as she can E onto his dash, and just destroy him. However, there are so many times where Ive lost to a renekton, because hes been able to predict my movements and skills, and as such, won trades and have hard punished me. Counterpicks should exist, but they shouldn't nullify player skill. A skilled janna 1 trick should 100% be able to beat a 3rd game yasuo player, if janna outplays him correctly.

However, when fighting tryndamere, tons of times the ball is in his court, if not the ball is always in his court. Biggest factors of this are his crit and his ult, with the latter being the biggest issue here. No activation cost or penalty, hes free to activate it whenever he wants, through cc, no resources needed, etc. Its strong, so no doubt any tryndamere player would complain about any nerfs to it, so I expect downvotes from both tryn mains and "lol youre trash bc u complain about a lowelo pubstomp" player.

Look at Darius, Illaoi, Warwick, Olaf, and such. Champs who are powerful because they "refuse to die" with immense dueling potential and sustain, yet can be overwhelmed and killed, with illaoi and Darius having more 1v2+ potential (as they are juggernauts). I really wish Tryndamere was pushed in the direction of "Oh hes an immensely strong duelist, but with enough skill, you can beat him" kind of kit, instead of "Oh hes gonna die. What if he didnt".

18 Comments

Brotha1 votes

Without Tryndamere ult who is Tryndamere? No seriously. What part of his kit is actually iconic to the champion? It's an unfun mechanic I would LOVE to see removed but they're going to have to straight up delete the champion to achieve that. We wouldn't be getting a Tryndamere without his ult but a completely new champ.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Tryndamere is defined by his crit, his spin, and his undying. However, its also one of the most oppressive tools in the game, forcing the enemy to try and disengage while tryndamere is chunking your bar and lowering his E cd with every auto he does. Riot could make it so the condition to ult is his fury meter (which would allow for tryndamere to actually be punished for being caught out), make it so hes grounded while ulting (to further solidify his last stand, while also allowing for some counterplay as hes ulting, instead of him ulting/spinning just so he doesn't die after getting caught out). They could move his crit chance as a passive to his ult, to destroy the frustration of his early game RNG snowball cheese, yet make him immesnely powerful when he hits 6. They could have it so he gains immense lifesteal (like on par of that as dead sion) as he ults, with more lifesteal the lower hp he is.

I'm not a game designer, but thing should be tested. Aatrox lost much of his identity when they gutted his ult/kit, but part of him still exists. Sion gained a new, clear identity when he was reworked. Tryndamere needs to be looked at by a group of people, to alter his ult while maintaining his image.

Brotha1 votes

{quoted}

bad idea

Making him immobile during his ult sounds terrible.

Aatrox lost much of his identity when they gutted his ult/kit, but part of him still exists.

Not at all. Aatrox revive was core to his identity and they removed it. His Bloodwell was core to his identity and they removed it. They turned a sustained fighter into an sustained AD caster. The champion was completely deleted and replaced with a new one. The same is going to have to happen for Tryndamere.

Divin1ty1 votes

{quoted}

Making him immobile during his ult sounds terrible.

Not at all. Aatrox revive was core to his identity and they removed it. His Bloodwell was core to his identity and they removed it. They turned a sustained fighter into an sustained AD caster. The champion was completely deleted and replaced with a new one. The same is going to have to happen for Tryndamere.

No, Aatrox Identity always was being a draintank, that was his thing. He does it better now, than ever. Unfun and unhealthy champs have to go, just like an AA based Drain Tank takes no skill and gives little room to outplay, so I am glad that they reworked him into something with actual and good counterplay.

I had 400k MPoints on pre-rework and now 845k on reworked, so please don't come at me with yOu DoN't KnOw AaTrOx.

Brotha1 votes

{quoted}

No, Aatrox Identity always was being a draintank, that was his thing. He does it better now, than ever. Unfun and unhealthy champs have to go, just like an AA based Drain Tank takes no skill and gives little room to outplay, so I am glad that they reworked him into something with actual and good counterplay.

I had 400k MPoints on pre-rework and now 845k on reworked, so please don't come at me with yOu DoN't KnOw AaTrOx.

Old Aatrox didn't drain tank until about 2 months before his rework. The champion was in a sorry state for years. I typically don't OP.GG people to verify their claims but considering you're on a level 30 account that appears to have been made in season 6 I'm going to go ahead and say you clearly did not know season 3-4-5 Aatrox at all. There is no shame in it, NOBODY did.

Divin1ty1 votes

{quoted}

Old Aatrox didn't drain tank until about 2 months before his rework. The champion was in a sorry state for years. I typically don't OP.GG people to verify their claims but considering you're on a level 30 account that appears to have been made in season 6 I'm going to go ahead and say you clearly did not know season 3-4-5 Aatrox at all. There is no shame in it, NOBODY did.

Yey he draintanked, he usually went into Lifesteal + his W.

You are obviously new to the boards. My main got banned here, shoocks, I can't use it. Maybe have a bit of common sense.

Brotha1 votes

{quoted}

Yey he draintanked, he usually went into Lifesteal + his W.

I repeat, Aatrox did not draintank ANYTHING until 2 months prior to his rework. He did not have to damage to out sustain the damage he took, and didn't have the damage to kill before he died. There is a reason they reworked him and scrapped his identity as a sustained fighter and opted to make him an AD caster with sustain. A drain tank is a champion who is capable of regening more HP than they lose while dealing damage. Aatrox simply couldn't pull that off because he did not have the defensive stats/abilities to get the lifesteal in that he needed.

You are obviously new to the boards.

No. If you mean to say you're some type of.. forum celebrity that everyone should know.. LOL.

My main got banned here, shoocks, I can't use it.

I checked NA, EUW, and EUNE only EUNE has an account name "shoocks" that is above level 30 and it has no Aatrox games played ever.

Maybe have a bit of common sense.

Common sense to know a random forum poster has an alleged 600k+ mastery Aatrox account? Are you actually serious?

Divin1ty1 votes

{quoted}

I repeat, Aatrox did not draintank ANYTHING until 2 months prior to his rework. He did not have to damage to out sustain the damage he took, and didn't have the damage to kill before he died. There is a reason they reworked him and scrapped his identity as a sustained fighter and opted to make him an AD caster with sustain. A drain tank is a champion who is capable of regening more HP than they lose while dealing damage. Aatrox simply couldn't pull that off because he did not have the defensive stats/abilities to get the lifesteal in that he needed.

No. If you mean to say you're some type of.. forum celebrity that everyone should know.. LOL.

I checked NA, EUW, and EUNE only EUNE has an account name "shoocks" that is above level 30 and it has no Aatrox games played ever.

Common sense to know a random forum poster has an alleged 600k+ mastery Aatrox account? Are you actually serious?

Shoocks = shocker, not an actual name, just an ironic saying of "how suprising and unexpected" That you mistook it for my name is hillarious.

Divin1ty1 votes

Just make his R a buffing Ultimate, maybe with DMG reduction, but a 'oh I can't die for 5 seconds, because I want to' is just unfun for everything and doesn't really makes me feel the powerfantasy I expect from Tryndamere.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

Not sure about the damage reduct: Tryndamere's identity is "High damage duelist who can't die". But I do agree: I want a power fantasy from tryndamere.

Darius' Power fantasy is when he fights 1v3 and wins because his heal and dunk.

Illaoi's Power fantasy is when she lands a clutch flash 5 man ult.

Shen's is when his ult barely saves the ally adc.

Tryndamere doesn't feel powerful when he ults. He just feels unfair to fight. I want him to be a strong duelist who gets angry and fights to the bitter end, not "smack smack smack".

Divin1ty1 votes

{quoted}

Not sure about the damage reduct: Tryndamere's identity is "High damage duelist who can't die". But I do agree: I want a power fantasy from tryndamere.

Darius' Power fantasy is when he fights 1v3 and wins because his heal and dunk.

Illaoi's Power fantasy is when she lands a clutch flash 5 man ult.

Shen's is when his ult barely saves the ally adc.

Tryndamere doesn't feel powerful when he ults. He just feels unfair to fight. I want him to be a strong duelist who gets angry and fights to the bitter end, not "smack smack smack".

I meant just something along the lines of DMG reduction and stuff, simple spitballing.

Tryndamere overall doesn't feel impressive honestly, Aatrox does, GPs Spells hurt even with only the SFX, Aatrox is just plain badass, just like Darius.

Trynda is just a normal sized human being with a large sword that plays casino to win lane, that's it.

Mahoh1 votes

Make him get dizzy after spinning and apply a blind to him for like a second.

CominTowardsYa1 votes

Maybe he should have slower walk speed too and slip on banana peels randomly because thats always fun. Make champs that have built in nerfs and things that take control away from the player.

dontspinbutwin1 votes

I mean, as silly as it sounds, it is something that helps deal with player frustration.

For example, Blitz's w. Massive movement speed sterroid. However, it used to have no slow at the end of it. Reason this was added was blitz kept abusing his w whenever it was off cooldown, even when not going for a pull, because he could and it was great mental pressure.

There was old swain's ult nerf. They increased its cooldown because players didn't have much reason not to use it, except to conserve mana. In fact, people would just randomly turn it on simply to farm and waveclear, even if they didn't need to. As such, higher cooldown was added to punish that.

As of right now, I think tryndamere suffers in the same way of "well, its up. Why not?" and spins, hoping for crits to lower the E cooldown. Some penalty such as lowering his dueling potential when using it might be a good way to express skill as a tryndamere main. Like you could go in, but if you can't auto for 1 second, you might lose the duel. Should you back off, or risk it?

And trust me when I say this: as much as it sucks to take away some control from the player, itd make it feel far more fair to the people fighting him.

CominTowardsYa1 votes

I guess that is one way to look at it. I just don't like the philosophy of taking control out of the player's hands. I would prefer give something less OP than make a penalty for the champ. Thats just me though.

Mahoh1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe he should have slower walk speed too and slip on banana peels randomly because thats always fun. Make champs that have built in nerfs and things that take control away from the player.

My idea man! When he ults a banana peel pops out and he falls.

CominTowardsYa1 votes

Like the banana peel in Mario Kart or the one on Soraka's head?

Mahoh1 votes

Mario with some wacky sfx.

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