I didn't know Black Market Brawlers was becoming SR permanently...

TurquoiseYoshi·Nov 11, 2015·3 votes·481 views

But the new winion changes seem to make it look like it does. Now, a snowballing team will snowball even more, and a team with an AFK will get even more fucked! I thought League encouraged focusing on different points in the game (AKA Early game vs. Late game) and approved trying to come back from losing a player. But these changes just make no sense in realizing that.

I really do like Rito, and I agree (or can somewhat understand) most of the changes for Preseason 6. But this is absurd.

Edit: As a side note, RIP Revive. Riot didn't even mention it in their removed summoners they referenced.

22 Comments

disregardableNov 11, 20151 votes

Nah. This is great. Playing from behind feels absolutely awful, and I appreciate every measure that speeds up games.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20154 votes

There's making things more streamlined in losing (like lowering the timer to surrender), and then there's making it impossible for people who want to try to come back. There shouldn't be game mechanics directly making things harder for one group, just so that a group of people who don't care about the game to feel better.

disregardableNov 11, 20151 votes

I don't think reducing the length of bad games will make anyone unhappy. Just give it a chance. ^^

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20152 votes

They could reduce the length of bad games in a number of ways (lower surrender timer, lower percentage to 3-2 for surrenders) that didn't kill a team's chance to come back. I don't really want to play a game with my friends and know that if we lose early, we're basically done for, whether we want to win or not. I don't want to watch a pro game and know that, because of a bad early game, the team's comp, made for late game, is never able to do anything because the game doesn't want them to.

disregardableNov 11, 20151 votes

That is already how the game is. 90% of the time there are not comebacks, and when there are it's only because the team in the lead made a mistake, not because of superior skill of the other team. I only used "bad" games to try to be relatable, but apparently that's not something you connect to. Realistically it's almost all games that are going on longer than they should be. This change to minions doesn't actually change how the game is played at all. You're no less likely to comeback than you are now, because either way the only way you can come back is if the enemy team makes a mistake. Whether the minions are strong or not has no effect on that.

And actually, it could be good for defending teams too. Winning teams can't just be passive, because the farm will always push towards the losing team. If they -fail- to be aggressive, then the defending team can come back.

BluePolarizerNov 11, 20152 votes

There is absolutely no reason for plat and diamond games to be lower in quality so that bronzes can surrender faster.

Z StatisticNov 11, 20151 votes

I would imagine that the default choices for a winning and losing team are: losing - splitpush to try to even out the tower and exp disadvantage wining - 5 man push the broken lane to go for enrage

In those predicaments, it would seem that the losing team's damage dealers should focus on aoe while sending a splitpusher to take a tower. The aoe items like Runaan's could be enough to really beat back attacking teams who are clumped together in order to take a second tower.

The winning team holds the advantage and would probably attempt to rotate to another tower before the above can occur so that they don't get aoed down.

Single champions are still really good at taking down turrets. If anything, they got nerfed slightly in health.

In a round about way, this is better. If the losing team just tries to stall, they can't. The offense can just derp around and wait for their lanes to naturally push due to the hyperbolic nature of the buffs to minions. This forces defending teams to go on the offense and attack the enemy where they are weak instead of just turtling.

Essentially, Ziggs' niche just got killed in LCS. The only thing you want ziggs for now is just pure aoe in teamfights and beating people off of towers instead of just clearing waves.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20151 votes

The thing is, in the time it takes for one person to get to the nearest tower, a fed enemy can come to defend it. It's not like losing one person will really kill a team that far ahead too much, especially when it's to equal out the team numbers.

Z StatisticNov 11, 20151 votes

Or the enemy could 5 man push.

Numbers trump raw power for the most part. A tower provides a significant source of defense. Thus, if you are only somewhat ahead, then fighting a 4v4 around the enemy tower is risky. Fighting a 5v4 around the enemy tower is not. You can very easily push them off and take their tower. If you go 1 for 1 in towers, who cares? Just take the next one immediately.

Besides, the above is very unlikely because:

5 people push faster than 1 person no matter how fed they are.
The creeps themselves will make it harder for the one person to push due to the buff.

This pretty much force the losing team to take a risky play, and if/when it fails, the game is pretty much over. That's fun to watch, fun to play, and we can move on because the creep difference prevents people from stalling indefinitely.

The worst thing about DotA is that the losing team has to play risky in order to come back, but doing so doesn't really do anything noticeable. The game still takes forever to end even if you are really fed. While not as bad in League, we still get those kind of things when the comp has really good waveclear and doesn't even let the creep damage chip the tower.

As long as the coup de grace moment doesn't come too early, it should really help the pacing of the game where it's not slowing to a crawl while still letting back and forth games occur.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20151 votes

If someone wants to 5-man push, the winning team just brings 5 people to defend (or, better, bring someone around the back to flank). Easy ace right there.

Z StatisticNov 11, 20151 votes

I didn't say the losing team 5 man push. I said the winning team 5 man push.

My point is that when all the winning team's lanes are naturally hard pushed, and the winning team can simply deathball everything by virtue of being stronger, why wouldn't the winning team simply just 5 man push? The LOSERS are the ones that are supposed to come up with something creative.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20151 votes

Sorry, must have understood that wrong.

The losers already have to come up with something creative. They can either stall the game out until they can make a big play, or wait for a late game comp to scale up, or go for a risky Baron play, or try to catch out and assassinate people, or others. Now, many of those are much harder to do, making the losing players need to make even more drastic decisions.

PyrodiniumNov 11, 20151 votes

Take into account that the big pushing power-up requires your team to have a tremendously huge advantage (3 higher in average level), a situation in which a comeback is extremely unlikely, so it will impact a very small amount of games.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20151 votes

True, but you do get a base bonus from being ahead at all that will, most likely, push an unmonitored lane in your favor. It also gives you a small boost for every turret, so that'll help an ahead team even more.

PyrodiniumNov 11, 20151 votes

I am on the fence on that particular buff, and waiting to actually test the changes.

Having one of the smaller buffs will make your minion waves push away from you, making it so that the team with the advantage is required to keep going forward, taking the corresponding risks.

I am not sure how will that situation warp the game flow.

StoryDuckNov 11, 20151 votes

Look at the bright side. When you do have an AFK they can end the game in 10 minutes instead of 20.

Trash MammaINov 11, 20151 votes

Give Riven the buff goodbye top lane

Wind WhistlerNov 11, 20151 votes

Revive was removed last season, lol.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 11, 20151 votes

I know. When they said in the paragraph "Say hey to Fortify, Promote, and Surge for us", they left out Revive.

Wind WhistlerNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I know. When they said in the paragraph "Say hey to Fortify, Promote, and Surge for us", they left out Revive.

Oh. You can probably see how I thought you meant that they removed it this season though, especially because I didn't read the reference in the patch notes. Thanks for the summoner 13 .