Stubborn to a Fault (Poppy's W Passive) Is Pretty Damn Strong

48983507DEL1··6 votes·1,271 views

Ever wonder why a Poppy with just a Sunfire Cape or Cinderhulk feels impossible to take down, no matter what champion you're playing as? Do you rage when you get towerdove early in the game, with Poppy face tanking 5-6 shots, only to escape with more than 30% of her health still in tact?

Well this is (mostly) thanks to the passive on her W, Stubborn to a Fault. This portion of her kit grants her a permanent 15% increase to her TOTAL Armor and Magic Resist, which is DOUBLED when she is below 40% HP.

To make matters worse, she only has to put 1 point into this ability in order to receive its full effects.

Combine this with her Iron Ambassador Innate Passive, as well as Courage of the Colossus, and she's damn near unkillable at a very early rank.

IMO, this passive provides Poppy with way too much damage resistance before she's even built a significant amount of tank items.

There are few champions that can keep up with her in terms of being able to withstand tons of damage, and most of these competitors are only strong in this field situationally. For example, Moakai is only comparable when he uses his 10 second ultimate. Same with Dr. Mundo, and Volibear with his passive. And currently, Poppy is dominating all 3 of those in terms of win rate.

To nerf her, I'd suggest changing % TOTAL Armor/MR to % BONUS Armor/MR. This way she at LEAST needs a few tank items before she reaches her unkillable status.

Another recommendation would be to make her % Resistances Scale with the points she's put into Steadfast Presence (W). Perhaps something along the lines of 10 / 11.5 / 13 / 14.5 / 16% Increased Resistances, doubled when below 40% HP.

But that's just my 5 cents. Hopefully she'll AT LEAST get looked at.

19 Comments

TheOvermind2 votes

I've no idea why you are getting downvoted , your points are all valid are justified and make sense.

What got my attention is that she has access to the full potential of the passive from rank 1 w. IMO they need to change THAT. 3/6/9/12/15 % increase based on rank is what it should be.

48983507DEL11 votes

Possibly. It's just ridiculous in its current state.

JedenVojak2 votes

It's nowhere near as good as her old passive.

I mean this one will give you like 10 armor at lv 18, the old ability gave up to 35

48983507DEL11 votes

Hence why she was reworked

JedenVojak1 votes

I was talking about her bonus armor from Paragon of Demacia.

Though yes, she also lost her AD steroid, her 40% damage buff, magic damage, range, and good scaling. I don't know of any champion who was as severely nerfed as Poppy is now.

48983507DEL11 votes

I realize that.

Again, that's why she was reworked. Her kit was way too strong to be allowed to function. That's why her early game was the weakest in the game.

JedenVojak1 votes

Yeah but she's overnerfed now. You basically can't kill your targets anymore.

Honestly I'm surprised anyone would even complain about her at this point; the champ was ruined to deal with her supposed OPness, and people still aren't satisfied.

48983507DEL11 votes

You can tho. She can out-trade most Top Laners while also out-scaling them. She can get to an unkillable status faster than most other champs, all while dealing a good amount of damage to whoever she dives in on.

JedenVojak1 votes

The damage she does doesn't even compare to her damage pre-rework, and it's all physical damage now; she really doesn't scale well, her moves are unreliable, and she doesn't have any kind of windowed defensive cooldowns to help her survive diving carrys.

Her Q just feels awful now.

48983507DEL11 votes

I can see how she doesn't scale into a late game monster, but early game and especially mid game she's incredibly difficult to deal with. It's not like she falls off super hard. She's still unkillable with unique utility.

Her passive shield is a pretty good skill for surviving dives, not to mention her Stubborn to a Fault passive.

Her Q is still really good harass in lane; it does % max hp damage, it slows to prevent a counter-trade, it zones people off minions, it has a fair cooldown, and it's good waveclear.

JedenVojak1 votes

She does fall off super hard, her damage even in the mid game is not super hot and it really just takes her too long to kill carries. If you can't wall them at the start of a fight you don't even have a chance as she's super vulnerable to getting permakited - especially since her speed up move got its duration halved and its cooldown massively upped. The bounce block and team rocket ult are decent for what they are, but they're more about blocking people off than singling out people and killing them.

The passive shield is much too unreliable; if you're chasing someone down to kill them and your passive randomly comes up when you're 200 units away from your target, are you really gonna run back and go pick up your shield and not try to tackle them? It's a decent laning tool, but it has major issues outside of that.

As for her Q, it does mediocre damage: the scaling is based on Bonus AD rather than total AD, and while % max hp damage is nice in theory it's like 7% (which is weaker than current BoTRK which had to be buffed to 8%) and it's physical damage which is heavily resisted, particularly by top laners. The slow only lasts a second and is very easily walked out of negating half the effect 90% of the time you want to use it. And it can miss, which is terribad. Admittedly the waveclear is neat, but it's not worth everything else it lost. Also... they just walk out of it... WALK! :-/

Terozu1 votes

Go Yasuo, wrekc her.

48983507DEL12 votes

It's not about finding a counter to her, it's just addressing that it's a very strong passive.

TheOvermind2 votes

He didn't say he struggles beating her and needs help on how to do so; he is saying there is a lot of hidden power very easily accessed from her w. Also a good poppy dumpsters yasuo early on.

Ralanr1 votes

I could see it so making her resistances scale with the the points working. It'd cause more strategic thinking into her ability path.

48983507DEL11 votes

True, as she could max it first in lane if she's losing.

48983507DEL11 votes

Also to clarify, here's a list stats on a level 6 Poppy (with 9 Armor Seals) depending on the items she's picked up:

  • Base - - - - - - - - - 7.77 Extra Armor (51.8 x .15)

  • item 1029 - - - - - - - - - - 10.02 Extra Armor (66.8 x .15)

  • item 3047 - - - - - - - - - - 12.27 Extra Armor (81.8 x .15)

  • item 1031 - - - - - - - - - - 13.77 Extra Armor (91.8 x 1.5)

  • item 3047 + item 1031 - - - - - - - - - - -18.27 Extra Armor (121.8 x .15)

Now this may not look like much, but when she gets below 40% HP (which she will if she's playing correctly as a diver), then you get these:

  • Base - - - - - - - - - - 15.54 Extra Armor (51.8 x .3)

  • item 1029 - - - - - - - - - - 20.04 Extra Armor (66.8 x .3)

  • item 3047 - - - - - - - - - - 24.54 Extra Armor (81.8 x .3)

  • item 1031 - - - - - - - - - - 27.54 Extra Armor (91.8 x .3)

  • item 3047 + item 1031 - - - - - - - - - - 36.54 Extra Armor (121.8 x .3)

I don't know about the rest of you, 15 - 36 free Armor at level 6 seems kinda ridiculous.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

her old passive was much better. defensive stats don't really scale well my friend and early game she doesn't get much of it.

48983507DEL11 votes

Scroll down a bit. I made a chart of how much resistance she actually gets based on the items she'd most likely have at level 6.

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