Dam i haven't seen a Kat since cinderhulk came out.

9kPluzZ·Dec 4, 2015·6 votes·1,173 views

She needs buffs

14 Comments

ApexInTheCircleDec 4, 20155 votes

Good, and no she doesn't. Kat is literally the epitome of cancer, You can walk all over her in lane and she can be down CS by a landslide. But the second she picks up one kill it's basically GG and becomes a monster. She doesn't need a fucking buff, she needs a remake to make her less toxic in an already snowballing environment.

Now before I get a shitstorm flung at me let me explain. I'm not saying she's OP or needs a nerf or anything of that matter, her kit is fundamentally flawed by design. Her resets offer her too much kill potential off of a team fight and with point and click CC being phased out it can make her a problem. Currently I think she's useless because of the AP item nerfs and that really slowed down her powerspike. However I come from an era where Kat used to mean instant victory when she was on a team. So I guess that makes me alittle biased.

ModWulf HelhammerDec 4, 20151 votes

Right. Yep, totally. A fed Katarina means you pretty much instantly win the game. /s

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2014403311/205363278?tab=overview

ApexInTheCircleDec 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Right. Yep, totally. A fed Katarina means you pretty much instantly win the game. /s

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2014403311/205363278?tab=overview

Need to learn to read man. I said basically GG which entails that she will start to get fed and usually leads to an easy win. You had 3 separate counters on their team that probably knew wtf they were doing. Plus your Riven was garbage...Just sayin.

ModWulf HelhammerDec 4, 20152 votes

That still denies your point of when a Katarina gets a few kills, it's basically GG.

If that were true, I should've been able to win that game for my team, even if they were bad.

ApexInTheCircleDec 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

That still denies your point of when a Katarina gets a few kills, it's basically GG.

If that were true, I should've been able to win that game for my team, even if they were bad.

You also missed the point where I said she's not op but does not need any buffs. Her kit is flawed in terms of power spikes, Riot has repeatedly stated in the past that they do not like super snowbally champs, yet Katarina's kit goes against that design philosophy that they've held onto. I think that if they buff Kat she will become a problem, if they nerf her they will destroy her completely and she'll basically be Yorick level. I think she needs a full scale rework so that she has a natural power spike instead of a situational one. That way she's more easily dealt with while also relying less on kills so she can be of use without them. Because in her current state if she's denied kills she's literally a walking ward, if she gets kills she's a walking massacre. IMO that's not a very healthy state of being, at least from a gameplay point of view.

ValyrianBladeDec 4, 20152 votes

Kat's mostly fine... have you ever actually tried playing her?

I don't play Kat, I don't like her as a champion. She's relatively easy to deal with though. First, you don't need to teamfight every game (splitpushing is a real strategy), and when you do teamfight you don't need to do it in closed quarters (give your immobile squishy adc/mage room to run away). Second, Kat is a good example of a champion that's easily dealt with using any hard CC (not just point and click) - her ultimate is channeled and therefore she's easy to hit with skillshots. Third, she has real weaknesses - if she enters a teamfight too early you can easily focus her down before she gets a reset, if she enters too late she lets her team lose a 4v5 and can't clean up by herself (in both cases, unless she or her team is far ahead, she puts her team at an extreme disadvantage in a teamfight). Simply don't get caught as a squishy against a Katarina and you'll deny her resets before you kill her.

I don't think Kat needs buffs either, but I think she's fine in the game. There are lots of champions whose kits are far more cancerous than Kat's (cough Yasuo cough Tahm Kench cough Thresh cough).

HelcaraxëDec 4, 20151 votes

Thresh? Why Thresh? He's not overpowered, and the hitbox on the hook is not overly large

ValyrianBladeDec 4, 20151 votes

Because of the safety of his lantern...

I don't care about his hook and follow, I can outplay him by dodging it. Don't care about the knock-up, I can avoid it. Don't even care about his ultimate, if he gets that close to the majority of my team he deserves the advantage it gives (and while it's a good escape many champions have better). But that lantern... it's the exact same reason I think Tahm Kench is cancerous.

Players in league make mistakes. You don't win games by making 'good plays' or 'fancy outplays' at any elo below challenger. Yes, even Master and Diamond. You win league by capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. They mess up and get caught, you get a kill and turn it in to an objective. Thresh and Tahm Kench invalidate this (which is why they're so popular and both appeared a lot at worlds). They both offer the ability for an ally whose made a mistake to get out free.

Tahm Kench is worse in the sense that even if you're under hard CC he can come in and save you. Although better in the sense that he has to come within range himself to do it (so you can use extra CC to stop him saving the ally, or just kill him as well). Thresh is worse in the sense that he just throws his lantern from over a wall and any ally who's able to click on it gets away free.

I don't even mind the lantern all that much when the ally using it knows it's going to be available. Oh, your adc just got caught in lane during a gank? Yea, that's Thresh's job - it's what makes him a strong laner. You just caught the enemy mid laner when thresh was only halfway up the river, and Thresh pulled him out just before you managed to kill him? Yea, not cool.

Same reason, to a much lesser extent, why there's often hate against champions like Zed / LeBlanc / Ekko. Except their 'safety' is for themselves only and is in the form of a mobility ability which they know they have available. So again, it doesn't feel so bad to see them get away because you know they knew they had that escape (and they're weaker because of it, hence why they often have sub-50% win rates). Meanwhile something like Thresh gets to save his allies (who make a lot of mistakes in solo queue) while still having an all-around strong kit for their role. Thresh and Tahm should both be incredibly weak champions overall to account for the ally-safety in their kits, yet both can actually hold their own in a solo lane against tanks/bruisers. That doesn't make sense, they're not punished for their safety.

UirayaDec 4, 20155 votes

NO SHE DOESN'T

ModWulf HelhammerDec 4, 20152 votes

I don't think she needs very large buffs, maybe just some reverts on the nerfs they did earlier. The problem is that tanks became tanks, so an assassin that needs to kill people to be effective became less so. Now there is too much CC for a Katarina to as well as she used to, but a master can still probably do well with her

Worst Kench NADec 4, 20152 votes

I agree completely! Katarina is honestly in the worst position right now. She's been trash tier ever since Cinderhulk. It's even worse than Nidalee.

Riot, if you're looking at this thread, and I'm sure you are, please buff Katarina before anything else. It's important.

dangopeeDec 4, 20151 votes

Got carried by one my last ranked game. Well she took all the kills anyway but I'm just glad she was a smarter Kat and not one of those ones that just throws over and over trying to 1v5 after they get fed. I don't mind one ksing everything if they actually carry me with it.

TASTE THE SANDDec 4, 20151 votes

at least no one bans her anymore ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

VeraskaDec 4, 20151 votes

Pls no, there's no one I hate playing against then kat, she just resets all over your team and it never feels fair, you ALWAYS have to focus her in fights even if she's like 0/4 and there adc is 5/0 just because of how devestating the reset chain can be. It might not always be the case but it certainly feels like it is.

She's absolutely terrible feeling to play against which is why she uses to be perma-banned even when her winrate wasn't that good.

I think a rioter said that kat is always chasing a high point (which I assume is her high speed reset pentakill) which is something unique to the game that only kat brings, but as long as she's chasing that high point they can't confidently buff her without feeling like they'll have to nerf her again