Swain Nevermore (W) root duration reduced to 1/1.3/1.5/1.8/2 seconds from 2 at all ranks
What the hell is this Riot. First you destroyed him with Grievous Wounds now you will reduce his root duration too?
Just give me your context of this pathetic change.
Tobsters20 votesGreat, I have been waiting a very long time for a swain buff/rework and in the end they nerf him to the ground. Thanks Riot.
At least fix his shitty attack animation.
Weiner the Pooh2 voteshow did they nerf him to the ground? its the same duration at max rank.
Melledoneus7 votesNobody gives a flying f*ck about max rank when it's the last ability you max out. Swain's early game is already frustrating, and this W change means one of his only strengths is gone. He has no range, no reliable CC that isn't a shitty slow, and his W is the second most telegraphed ability in the game (Aatrox Q takes that title). Also, his mana costs are absurd and his auto attack animation makes Karthus look like an Olympian javelin tosser with his auto attack animation being much more reliable. If they're going to nerf Swain instead of a certain wind-shitter (Janna, not talking to you, you'll be addressed later) who is currently able to hit 100% crit chance with a yellow sword and a purple blanket.
Silents4291 votesIf you seriously think knocking 1 second off his early game root is "one of his only strengths" you don't play Swain.
Reliable CC like the Root and point and click slow. He isn't a tank this is more then a lot of mages.
Mana costs are absurd-ish, but then again his passive also throws more then plenty mana back at him.
Swains attack animation is garbage but this revolves around him getting a visual update and gameplay update, maybe sometime in 2016
The nerf did nothing at all, his root serves the same function early game as ever, and it's to hold someone in place for the brief time it takes for you to activate ult and have all your abilities throw.
Melledoneus2 votesI actually do play Swain, and most Swain players will tell you that his W is one of his strongest abilities because it allows him to fight his opponents, even if they outrange him. It also helps him get maximum harass with his E and Q, and auto attacks that are enhanced, allowing him to have some notion of presence in lane to make up for his range.
Then explain why Annie has a passive that essentially gives her a point-and-click, an AoE, or a bigger AoE nuke stun. She isn't a tank. Also, Lissandra has AoE and point-and-click CC, and Fiddlesticks point and click abilities galore. Almost every single mage in the game has some sort of CC, and most of them are hard CC that aren't as telegraphed. Swain is actually on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of CC if his W is down. Nerfing his all-in ability means that he's going to be overall weaker.
He's notorious for being the hardest mage to farm with, even with his ult. HIs auto attacks are, as you say, garbage, his DoT has such slow ticks that they're not reliable for farming, and his ultimate overall drains more mana than what you get for using it. Sure, his passive gives him good mana sustain, but it's hard to utilize it if the only ways he can are completely terrible.
He's not going to get a visual update anytime soon. There are 6 or 7 champions higher on Riot's list, and you see a maximum of 2 or 3 a year. 2016 is unlikely.
Silents4291 votesI actually do play Swain, and most Swain players will tell you that his W is one of his strongest abilities because it allows him to fight his opponents, even if they outrange him. It also helps him get maximum harass with his E and Q, and auto attacks that are enhanced, allowing him to have some notion of presence in lane to make up for his range.
And none of that has changed with the duration being reduced, 1 second is plenty of time to set up the rest of your combo.
Then explain why Annie has a passive that essentially gives her a point-and-click, an AoE, or a bigger AoE nuke stun. She isn't a tank. Also, Lissandra has AoE and point-and-click CC, and Fiddlesticks point and click abilities galore. Almost every single mage in the game has some sort of CC, and most of them are hard CC that aren't as telegraphed. Swain is actually on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of CC if his W is down. Nerfing his all-in ability means that he's going to be overall weaker.
Because Annie is the current pinnacle of balance and fun right now, let's try to balance around her. And this doesn't nerf his all in ability, the burst from his W is stronger then the root, hope you didn't also imply it was hard to land, this ability might be telegraphed but people can't dodge it worth a damn.
He's notorious for being the hardest mage to farm with, even with his ult. HIs auto attacks are, as you say, garbage, his DoT has such slow ticks that they're not reliable for farming, and his ultimate overall drains more mana than what you get for using it. Sure, his passive gives him good mana sustain, but it's hard to utilize it if the only ways he can are completely terrible.
He is not the hardest to farm with, just requires adjustment, late game ult + w is decent wave clear, and clearing the minions refunds most of the mana cost from using your ult.
He's not going to get a visual update anytime soon. There are 6 or 7 champions higher on Riot's list, and you see a maximum of 2 or 3 a year. 2016 is unlikely.
List is subject to change a lot, they want to do a big mage gameplay update during 2016, and Swain was mentioned to being one of the potential candidates for it. It's not set in stone, but things can still happen.
Crowe Stalker1 votes
He is not the hardest to farm with, just requires adjustment, late game ult + w is decent wave clear, and clearing the minions refunds most of the mana cost from using your ult.
I seriously can't tell whether you are trying to make an argument and picking straws or are trolling.
Karthus CSes with his Lay Waste... I'm not joking, if you've played Karthus, you know he almost never auto attacks, just uses Q to farm, maybe E if he's getting pushed to hell and back.
Galio can clear an entire wave with E and Q.
Swain? Nevermove's not going to kill that wave and the animations on his auto attacks are horrible, plus the missile speed leaves much to be desired.
Wordofmask1 votes
- He's not going to get a visual update anytime soon. There are 6 or 7 champions higher on Riot's list, and you see a maximum of 2 or 3 a year. 2016 is unlikely.
Hmm 2 or 3 a year. Do you mean visual update level like Sion? I don't think Swain needs that treatment. GP or Fiora level is well enough.
Melledoneus1 votesHe said "visual and gameplay update." That's a full re-release. And I said it's unlikely.
Visual effects and model animation update? That's much better.
Crowe Stalker2 votes
- Reliable CC like the Root and point and click slow. He isn't a tank this is more then a lot of mages.
Slow Field
'Charm' that basically works like a Stun
Stun, Slow Field (with ult) and Wall
Stun as a passive
Knockback and impassible wall (both with ultimate, but this is a very powerful effect) mobility effect
Stun, forced Zhonya (Ultimate)
Stun
Slow Field
Knock-up, Silence
AoE Pull
Delayed Stun, Two Slows
Stun, plenty of mobility in the right circumstances
Fear, Silence
Stun
Knock-up, Knock-back with Ultimate
Stun as Passive
Slow, Root, Stun with ultimate
Silence, Suppression with Ultimate (stronger than Stun)
Root, AoE Stun with ultimate
Knock-up, Slow on a lower cooldown
Stun-Cage that stops Dashes
Stun Field that also works as a mini-knock up.
Please, tell us more about how Swain has more CC than most mages.
Silents4291 votes2 forms of CC and a lot of those listed had 1.
Crowe Stalker2 votesYea, and both of those forms of CC (Slow and Root) do nothing to actually stop foes from properly retaliating. A root isn't going to stop Caitlyn-or any ADC in range for that matter-from shooting me in the face with 250% of their Total AD because they got a crit.
SCApikeman9 votesNerf into the ground is a bit of an exaggeration, but he has a weak early game and this definitely isn't going to help. They need to nerf how deathfire touch works with DoT mages and then if he is still overpowered look to nerf swain directly.
JESUSSAYSNO1 votesThey did. By nerfing deathfire as a whole. Oh boy, now it's useless on everyone but dot mages and the problem isn't even solved.
Slamurai Jack3 votesThey buffed it for everyone except Dot mages and nerfed it for them.
GelsominoKiller1 votesWell man, i'm no Swain expert but a CC duration HALVED seems pretty massive, particuraly because i belive W is maxed last. Maybe he will tank the shot, but it's no light hit.
Silents4291 votesIt might not help, but this isn't really making it worse anyway.
Canidae1 votes...buff...Swain...wat. [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Swain becoming FoTM = it's time to learn every lane that's not mid (or top if ppl still do that).
Voluug132 votesOR you know, actually know how to counterplay him. Instead of crying because you cant dive and burst him at level 6 with your lattest ad melee assassin FotM.
Canidae1 votesUr saying this to someone who's never even touched assassins or melee heroes in general, so... yeah (kinda ignorant). [slayer-jinx-unamused] #onlyplaysmages
Not saying I've ever lost lane to a Swain, but the cancer bird is annoying as heck to play against (especially if it's one of them yolo aggro players that FoTM lovers tend to be).
It's like when a Karthus comes back to lane with full mana and I end up running laps around mah minions while he wastes his mana on Qs.
Melledoneus1 votesIf you play mages, then you'll know that anybody who outranges him makes his laning phase absolute hell. If he doesn't land his W he's going to have serious trouble fighting you, as you can kite him and harass the entire laning phase. Seeing has the best sustain he has until 6 is health pots, yeah... his laning phase sucks.
KONO RUBICK DA19 votesand mundo doesn't get nerf HAHAHHAHAA
Phuc Dat Bich1 votesand mundo doesn't get nerf HAHAHHAHAA
he is broken atm
Ralanr12 votesPlus no one buying 
doesn't help. His laning is annoying though.
Phuc Dat Bich1 votesPlus no one buying
he have way too much damage for how tank he is!!!
TANK who scale with MAX HP damage are always problematic
See maokai/Gragas/Sejuani/etc
Tanks who can deal max/current hp damage and to scale with this type of ratio are always OP because they can melt tanks and squishis and be TANK as hell
This is always a problem and riot buff mundo E to scale with Max hp....
Troll for Trump2 votesOk. Tanks dealing damage have been a thing for a while, especially with the juggernaut update. Just give a champ some high base dmg abilities that scale off total AD,slap on a titanic hydra and blam-o. I think Juggernauts have more or less blended in with the tanks.
(percent max hp dot, can go bursty), 
(I guess)
(I guess) 
(AP, I guess), 
The Governer2 votesSince when Jarvan IV and Rek'Sai are tanks? Garen is not a tank either, but rather, a jaggernaut. Cho'Gath is on the fence of bruiser and tank. Same with Volibear.
Valor Simulator1 votes is a primary tank
Troll for Trump1 votesJ4 is a primary tank, but people have found that the bruiser build is best. That is why I wrote I guess. Cho is a tank. He isn't a bruiser. Bruisers build AD. Reksai is only good as a tank now. In her prime, she could've gone bruiser but it's no longer viable. Voli is a tank. Initiator, CC, building hp is best rather than Hydras or botrk/wit's end... he's a full teamfighting tank.
The Governer2 votesCho is a tank. He isn't a bruiser. Bruisers build AD.
Bruisers don't have to build AD. The definition of a bruiser is to have considerable amount of burst damage (not as much as assassins and mages, but you get the idea) while having the ability to tank certain amount of damage (not as much as tanks).
Which is why there is a bruiser Ekko build where Ekko builds a load of HP and resistances while still dishing out tons of damage.
Troll for Trump1 votesStill feel Cho is more tank than bruiser, due to him ccing people. For tanks, CC> Dmg.
Chespin20131 votesHe is not broken he is just overbuffed that and the fact that ADCS and Mages seem to forget how to counter his healing through building items to beat him
Phuc Dat Bich3 votesHe is not broken he is just overbuffed that and the fact that ADCS and Mages seem to forget how to counter his healing through building items to beat him
the fact that he have so much scaling from HP and the enemy current hp allow him to build FULL tank and deal massive damage
Other tanks who build pure tanks they fail off late game and they become CC machines
MUNDO from the other hand he deal massive damage (You can check charts after a game he would have the most damage or the second most damage as A TANK) so that is a PROBLEM
And even if you build the new L.W item with the grevious wound passive mean nothing because now rather than healing for 150 per second he heals for 100 it mean nothing
This champion need nerfs everybody knows it
hi hi its zy zy1 votesMundo has to do damage. He can't peel other than body blocking (which EVERYBODY can do). He has one single target slow. That's it. No utility. Nothing. Just damage. He has low range damage, very low range, cuz most of hte dmaage is from his attack damage steroids and AOE from sunfire + burning agony. So of course he does damage. His lane phase is also mediocre and he's prone to ganks because he has no escapes. Btw tanks who deal damage aren't always problematic
KingWanahakalugi1 votesMundo just received a nerf on the PBE today.
Abyssphere14 votes"First you destroyed him with Grievous Wounds"
?
Wordofmask3 votesLast Whisper upgrade
LaoBushido7 votesi think he is referring to the fact that is it not build on adcs, or rather adcs don't want to build it
KONO RUBICK DA2 votesi think he is referring to the fact that is it not build on adcs, or rather adcs don't want to build it
i think that if you give it a month people will build it, and with the nerf he will drop to 40% win rate
Stiv123413 votesMeanwhile Zed gets buffed as soon as he leaves the spotlight for one patch.
Lady Hammerlock1 votesMeanwhile Zed gets buffed as soon as he leaves the spotlight for one patch.
ummm ok that change was compensation was the fix for his Q+W instant cast no animation
Voluug133 votesWhy should he get ''compensation'' for a bugfix?
I mean they literally reduce the toxicity or ludicrous safeness of his kit, up the skillfloor, and people complain they cant get 0.5s manaless high range harrass that ignored minions.
They add counterplay to Zed's kit and its a travesty, but they add counterplay to anyone else's kit and its OK?
Lady Hammerlock2 votesWhy should he get ''compensation'' for a bugfix?
I mean they literally reduce the toxicity or ludicrous safeness of his kit, up the skillfloor, and people complain they cant get 0.5s manaless high range harrass that ignored minions.
They add counterplay to Zed's kit and its a travesty, but they add counterplay to anyone else's kit and its OK?
because as an assassin he arguably has the most easily exploited late game
as a squishy you can buy 
mages can just buy 
and armour hits zed harder then most especially with the LW changes which hurt a few assassins
because the concept of his ult to do dmg zed actually has to do any damage at all in the first place
zed has an annoying early-mid but like every other all in champion
1.prone to falling behind,which is worse in zed's case due to his ult and the way it works
2.falls of late and there only relevance is killing the enemy mid/adc which in the higher elo will most likely build the item that counters zed
zed amongst all the assassin has A LOT of counterplay
his passive would do jacksh** if he can't even bring someone down to 50% hp in the first place
he has a skill shot on his Q and only 1 slow which requires you to fire a shadow
He has a lot of easily exploited counterplay
and another thing to add is he has no mechanic thats inherently toxic(except maybe his shadows going everywhere)unlike swain who literally carries his own DFG a weaker 
and some will of the ancient birds
and lets be honest swain has been a star of being buffed for awhile zed has been going back and forth
Voluug131 votesbecause as an assassin he arguably has the most easily exploited late game as a squishy you can buy
He can stll eficiently split push, you know? He buys both BotRK and Youmuu's, is a powerful duelist and has strong mobility. Even ig he gets behind, he doesnt get completly nullified.
The ''just buy X'' argument is not valid, stop using it. First, that is not counterplay. Second, you dont start with 3.5k gold to buy it, and the chances of you having 3.5k gold at level 6 are extremely low. Lastly, most ults can be screwed by Zhonia's. The difference is that Zed not only is AD, he also has low cds, no significant resource AND a blink back to safety. Things almost no othr champion has.
Armour items were nerfed and are constantly being nerfed, including Zhonias.
You mean the fact he can do enough damage to kill someone in less that a second? BotRK, Ignite, 1AA+Q, all that can happen in 1s. And even if he fails he gets a free ticket back to safety. Low risk high reward anyone?
1.- No, its terrible for Talon or Eve. Zed is still a strong splitpushed because his itemization allows attack speed, and he has strong mobility.
2.- Many champions fall worse, and are terrible at anything else that damage 
.
His passive, at worst, is easy tower farming. At best is ludicrously powerful because he still gets strong earlygame poke. Not many champions, much less midlaners, can rush armor. Much worse with the removal of mana potions.
Skillshot that is: fast and costs basically no resource. Its like Lee Sin Q's. Low cooldown, powerful, no risk, basically no resource.
Mechanic that is not toxic? **His entire laning is toxic and unfun for his opponent. ** His ult, nah his kit, is the definition of low risk high reward. He has easy mode tower farming.
Swain pays for his raw power because he is a short ranged mage with mana problems, no waveclear and no mobility at all. Naming things he can do is silly and a bad argument.
Swain has been untouched and unmoved, basically played by a minimal quanity of people for years. He didnt need buffs or nerfs, only salty assassin mains ever had problems with him.
Sythriel Draken8 votes
and 
do not get touched.. Wow riot.. why are they so fucking dense in leaving obviously overpowered champions alone while nerfing those that already isn't seeing much play!
It's not warlords bloodlust that makes them op either. Been running ferver on both and still dominating thanks to their auto crits.
commit an hero6 votesHonestly, It's the DFT mastery that is making him strong.
Swain has clear weaknesses. -Terrible Waveclear -Weak Early (oppressive to Melees tho) -If Behind Is Worthless
If they want to nerf him why not nerf the E or Q? Those are point and click spells, where as his W requires you to actually land it.
lightdragoon885 votesThey are preparing for Dragon Master Swain.....maybe...I wish.
ComannderShepard2 votesThey are preparing for Dragon Master Swain.....maybe...I wish.
well, they are releasing a dragon trainer legendary. Maybe its building up to a dragon master swain ultimate and update
