Why is DFT better for AD champions?

Durfain··3 votes·943 views

AD champions already have so many masteries available to them while AP champions are severely limited in choices. DFT is supposed to be a MAGE mastery but it's currently so much better on AD champions like Jhin and Varus who build pure AD. By contrast, the AP ratio is so terrible that it takes too long to become a relevant mastery as an AP champion. Buff it for mages please.

13 Comments

Anraton4 votes

well .. the ratio reflects the 2:1 ap/ad ratio you get from items ... like item 1052 to item 1036

about Jhin and Varus ... they can't proc thunderlord, they arent aa relient enough to use Fervor of Battle

and about varus .. all his spells are dots/aoe effects so he "only" gets redduced duration ... I think Xerath would use DFT as would Varus

Trundle Bundle1 votes

This. The AD ratio is higher than the AP one to normalize the effectiveness of the two, since AD is almost always numerically lower. Jhin is just an outlier because of how inflated his AD stat gets, his W and R being so long range, and those same spells acting as single target effects on champs.

Varus isn't even that great with DFT. Overall it has got its benefits over thunderlord's on paper, but it's a really low performance mastery for almost everyone.

Vekkna2 votes

Wrong. AD costs 32.5g per point. AP costs 21g per point. That means the equivalency is AD x 1.56 = AP.

So if DFT was balanced for the value difference between AD and AP, the AD ratio would be 156% of the AP ratio. The current AD ratio of .6 is 240% of the .25 AP ratio. If DFT were balanced, the AD ratio would only be .39, not .6.

Anraton1 votes

don't only take a look at the gold values ... also take a look at the amount of ap/ad you gt with a full item ...

I.E. item 3031 65 AD vs item 3029 (keep in mind ie is more expensive than rod)

Vekkna1 votes

item 3157 35g per AP item 3139 49g per AD

1.4 multiplier

item 3812 47g per AD item 3116 32g per AP

1.5 multiplier

If you're going to make a point, then make a point and back it up. Don't fling random, unsupported statements backed up by nothing.

EDIT: The only way the ratio makes any sense is if you factor in the AP multiplier from Rabadon's and ignore AD multipliers/buffs/freebies on champs like Darius, Zed, Jhin, etc. Even if you assume every AP can or will build Rabadon's first every game, the ratio tilts in favor of AD.

The answer to the question is that the mastery is imbalanced in favor of AD champs. I assume the reason is because most AD champs build like tanks, so they need absurd ratio advantages to make sure they can do carry-level damage while still being tanky as fuck and not actually paying for the damage with gold. Or in the case of ADCs, they have to build one or two Zeal items without AD.

Vekkna2 votes

Wrong. AD costs 32.5g per point. AP costs 21g per point. That means the equivalency is AD x 1.56 = AP.

So if DFT was balanced for the value difference between AD and AP, the AD ratio would be 156% of the AP ratio. The current AD ratio of .6 is 240% of the .25 AP ratio. If DFT were balanced, the AD ratio would only be .39, not .6.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

You also have to consider what champions will be building massive amounts of AD and that although AD has a decent at best scaling for DFT, it is hard to get a large sum of AD compared to AP. Mages have an item that literally increases their AP by 35%.

Vekkna1 votes

If you did the math, you'd know that Deathcap still doesn't bring parity between AD and AP on the DFT ratios. It's much closer, but AD still comes out ahead.

You don't care, so I won't bother showing the work.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

Champions that build large sums of AD can't utilize DFT effectively, and you can't build large sums of AD relative to AP, where items all around offer more and there is an item that increases total AP by 35%.

Vekkna1 votes

Show the math that backs up your words.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

It's balanced now.

Vekkna1 votes

Bias. Even a lot of AD champs who do not use DFT can still use DFT more effectively than any mage not named Brand. Miss Fortune and Ezreal, for example, don't usually pick DFT, but they still use DFT better than Malzahar.

thumbnail91 votes

Its because the AD ratio makes Jhin do 300+ extra damage.

Also can Varus even proc thunder lords without blowing ulti? Its better for him simply because he doesn't auto so both warlords and fervor are out of the question.

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