Can we have Ezreal's ult dealing less damage when building AD....?

BeatzBoyFTW·Oct 5, 2019·18 votes·10,924 views

His poke was nuisance enough in-lane, there's no reason to make it burst so hard when building AD on a magic dealing ult.

71 Comments

iiGazeiiOct 5, 20195 votes

So what, he shouldn't have an ult unless he builds AP? It doesn't do anything but damage.

BârdOct 5, 20195 votes

Considering he has two of the best abilities in the game (Mystic Shot, Arcane Shift) and a damn strong passive, it doesn't make sense to give him a great ult on top of that.

TailypoOct 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Considering he has two of the best abilities in the game (Mystic Shot, Arcane Shift) and a damn strong passive, it doesn't make sense to give him a great ult on top of that.

most ults are pretty good friend. oh, do you play bard? lol, sorry.

the ad scaling on his ult is not great.

BârdOct 6, 20191 votes

If you think Bard ult is bad, you've never seen a good Bard.

The AD Scaling on Trueshot doesn't need to be great. It's an AOE 650 damage nuke with global range and no damage falloff for secondary targets, which also instastacks his passive and deals Magic damage when the enemy team wants to build armor to mitigate you.

It could literally have zero AD Scaling and it would still be a strong ult for AD Ezreal, but it has a 100% bonus AD ratio.

TailypoOct 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you think Bard ult is bad, you've never seen a good Bard.

The AD Scaling on Trueshot doesn't need to be great. It's an AOE 650 damage nuke with global range and no damage falloff for secondary targets, which also instastacks his passive and deals Magic damage when the enemy team wants to build armor to mitigate you.

It could literally have zero AD Scaling and it would still be a strong ult for AD Ezreal, but it has a 100% bonus AD ratio.

Wow 100% scalling on a champ that builds ~ 100 ad. That's some amazing dmg.

BârdOct 6, 20191 votes

item 3078 25 item 3042 35 plus Awe item 3033 45 item 3139 50 item 3156 50

That's 205 extra damage, not even including the AD from Muramana or potential damage from Elixirs or Runes.

Combine that with the 650 base damage (can't gloss over that) and you have an 855 damage nuke.

The thigh guyOct 6, 20192 votes

{quoted}

25 35 plus Awe 45 50 50

That's 205 extra damage, not even including the AD from Muramana or potential damage from Elixirs or Runes.

Combine that with the 650 base damage (can't gloss over that) and you have an 855 damage nuke.

Then apply resistances and it’s more like 400. On a highly telegraphed easily dodged skill shot with a MASSIVE wind up.

BârdOct 6, 20191 votes

In order to get those kinds of reductions, you'd need ~135 or so magic resist.

Magic resist is a fairly standardized stat. Most melees range from 32 to 53, and most ranged champs range from 30-38.5.

Most MR items give 50-60, so to get that much you'd need one major MR item plus Merc Treads.

In the mid-game, if a tank has invested that much money into MR, they won't have enough armor to survive your AA's and Q spam, but yeah, they'll be able to survive you a bit in the late game.

...but that's tanks.

The ult doesn't have damage falloff anymore, meaning an ult through the enemy team will chunk the living shit out of the backline. Even if they build MR, they don't have the HP pool to make that a super valuable purchase, and with their defensive slots blown on MR they won't have armor to deal with the rest of your damage.

LightswornLanceOct 6, 20191 votes

Late game a tank will likely have gargoyle and maybe another mr item if you have any ap champions. Easily giving them 100+ mr which is 50% magic resistance from 850 to 475 on an easily dodgable fairly slow moving skillshot. Most tanks usually build merc treads but even if they dont they have conditioning alot of the times too.

BârdOct 6, 20191 votes

Yes, but tanks are tanks. Tanks don't exactly need to worry about getting bursted down.

The Brand that is also getting hit by the ult very much does need to worry about that.

LightswornLanceOct 6, 20191 votes

Well brand will also die if a single amount of cc hits him so...

BârdOct 7, 20191 votes

Which is a testament to how bad powercreep has become.

The thigh guyOct 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In order to get those kinds of reductions, you'd need ~135 or so magic resist.

Magic resist is a fairly standardized stat. Most melees range from 32 to 53, and most ranged champs range from 30-38.5.

Most MR items give 50-60, so to get that much you'd need one major MR item plus Merc Treads.

In the mid-game, if a tank has invested that much money into MR, they won't have enough armor to survive your AA's and Q spam, but yeah, they'll be able to survive you a bit in the late game.

...but that's tanks.

The ult doesn't have damage falloff anymore, meaning an ult through the enemy team will chunk the living shit out of the backline. Even if they build MR, they don't have the HP pool to make that a super valuable purchase, and with their defensive slots blown on MR they won't have armor to deal with the rest of your damage.

Okay? Generally either maw or mercurial is on most champions. And if not them than banshees. So these numbers are not unachievable on a squishy.

Also you’ve ignore one massive portion of my reply being that. If you have eyes, his ult should never hit you unless your chain cced.

BârdOct 7, 20191 votes

Even with that MR you don't have the HP to support it, and Banshees is straight up awful right now so mages don't exactly have a real option other than compromising their build.

The ult travels at 2000 speed and is 320 wide. A champion has a sight range of 1200, meaning you have 0.6 seconds after you see it coming to move out of the way. Not impossible to dodge, but if there's anything else going on you're probably getting hit unless you see it coming from a long way away.

The thigh guyOct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Even with that MR you don't have the HP to support it, and Banshees is straight up awful right now so mages don't exactly have a real option other than compromising their build.

The ult travels at 2000 speed and is 320 wide. A champion has a sight range of 1200, meaning you have 0.6 seconds after you see it coming to move out of the way. Not impossible to dodge, but if there's anything else going on you're probably getting hit unless you see it coming from a long way away.

Except you have his insanely long windup time to react to it as well. So that 0.6 is more like 1.6.

BârdOct 7, 20191 votes

He's not gonna use it right in front of you unless you're being held down or forced down a path.

Usually it's just a banana of death coming from the fog.

HàrrowROct 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAfl1uvJ,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-06T07:17:20.723+0000)

Then apply resistances and it’s more like 400. On a highly telegraphed easily dodged skill shot with a MASSIVE wind up.

Nevermind the fact that's its literally his ultimate, what would be the point of having an ultimate that deals 200 damage late game lol. Meanwhile Brand presses his point and click R and deals 5k damage in a teamfight

HàrrowROct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

25 35 plus Awe 45 50 50

That's 205 extra damage, not even including the AD from Muramana or potential damage from Elixirs or Runes.

Combine that with the 650 base damage (can't gloss over that) and you have an 855 damage nuke.

Youre seriously overplaying the damage of his ult, even at 850 that's only at lvl 18 with full build. By that time everyone has at least some resistance and his Q does more than that anyway with a 0.9 sec cd when you hit an enemy.

Also there's a lot of ADCs whose ults deal similar or more damage, for example Draven does something like 350+300 per hit.

Jinx ult is AOE and execute, can deal way over 700 damage and that's including resistances Lucian MissFortune pretty self explanatory, one can kite and easily deal over 1k damage the other can kill an entire team with just a good R Caitlyn does more damage than EZ ult but it's single target Jhin his 4th R shot can deal over 1000 damage easily

Most mage ults in the game can burst for well over 1.5k and Ezreal really functions more as a dps mage than a standard ADC

BârdOct 7, 20192 votes

All of those can be intercepted, while Ezreal's cannot.

Draven has harsh damage fall-off after the first couple targets.

Except for Jinx, all of them also require the champion to sit there and channel, while Ez only has a 1 second cast time.

All of those deal physical damage, meaning somebody stacking armor to deal with the rest of their damage will also reduce that.

HàrrowROct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

while Ez only has a 1 second cast time.

"Only" XD

That one second is more than enough to 1) Warn enemies of an incoming ez ult 2) Get bursted down

Seriously it's an ULTIMATE ability that is a telegraphed skillshot that literally deals the same damage as his Q and is nowhere near out of line compared to other ADCs or especially mages.

You people are just finding random stuff to complain about now, why don't you complain about Syndra Veigar Katarina Neeko Ziggs ultimates dealing too much damage

BârdOct 7, 20191 votes

Compared to the other spells on that list, which require the champion to channel for a decent length of time? A 1 second, uninterruptible cast time is nothing.

It only gives any warning if the Ezreal is a moron who is using it in vision, and it only gives a chance to burst him if the Ezreal is actually bronze and is using his global ult in short range.

His Q deals ~300 (+1.15 bAD) damage after accounting for Trinity Force. It's very thin, does his primary damage type (meaning all the armor the tanks buy against him reduces it), and can be intercepted.

His Q deals 650 (+1,0 bAD) damage. It's wide, does magic damage (which isn't going to be stacked much if they're guarding against Ezreal), an

Brand ult is fine. His passive has been dumb since the rework.
Syndra ult is dumb. Basically old Veigar ult, but it also one-shots people who aren't building AP.
Veigar ult is fine. If you aren't already low, it doesn't do much, and the rest of his damage can be dealt with easily.
Kat ult is fine, literally just save one bit of CC for her.
Neeko ult is dumb. It shouldn't do nearly as much damage as it does and is sure as hell shouldn't be a stun.

Ezreal ult used to be fine.

Then they removed the damage falloff.

HàrrowROct 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Brand ult is fine. His passive has been dumb since the rework.

Veigar ult is fine. If you aren't already low, it doesn't do much, and the rest of his damage can be dealt with easily.

Kat ult is fine, literally just save one bit of CC for her.

Ezreal ult used to be fine.

Ezreal ult is fine just move out of the fricking way. Also its his GOD DAMN ULTIMATE, i just played against a fed Ezreal and his lvl 16 ult did 600 damage to me as an ADC with 0 magic resist. That's literally one crit auto, anyone building resist will lower that damage to 300-200

BârdOct 7, 20191 votes

His base kit is really damn strong, so he doesn't need a super powerful ult. His passive is super good on paper, his Q is a solid spell that breaks the game every time Riot tries to add something new, and his E is solid.

He was fine, but two changes brought him over the line.

His R no longer has damage fall-off, so getting hit through a creep wave or your tanks still means you get chunked.
His reworked W makes his E bolt lock on.

The combination of those two means that AD Ezreal now has equal burst damage to old AP Ezreal, but without giving up any of the DPS or push potential from AD Ezreal.

He was a good champion with neither of these things. With them, he's just a bit dumb, which is frustrating since I used to be able to respect a good Ezreal. It's a lot like what happened to Zed, really.

SaezioOct 7, 20191 votes

What ez builds those items? xD Usually it's item 3025 item 3042 item 3285 item 3153 and 2 situationals usually Mortal+GA unless there is a real good point click lockdown and your team has very low peel in which case you would go for the qss.

Trinity is just a bad item for ezreal. Too much money, weird buildpath for him, Gauntlet is just tons better.

BârdOct 7, 20191 votes

So I guess most Ezreals get their builds from Ultimate Bravery?

SaezioOct 7, 20191 votes

maybe luden's is a bit controversial, but the rest is pretty standart Ez botlane build.

I may have undersold trinity a bit, but it's been ages since I saw an ez in pro not go gauntlet. And if someone wants damage, they wouldn't have picked Ez in the first place imo.

TailypoOct 5, 20195 votes

Does ez need nerfs?

MrFawknSunshineOct 5, 20198 votes

i dont think so. as a support player i really hate laning with an EZ in lane cuz well he does no fukin damage rushing and building a item 3070

vyodaOct 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

i dont think so. as a support player i really hate laning with an EZ in lane cuz well he does no fukin damage rushing and building a

He can also rush item 3057 first back

SaezioOct 7, 20191 votes

Sure if he is an idiot. Ez shines mid game when he completes the muramana transformation. If he stalls the tear you can report him for inting.

Charmy BirdOct 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

i dont think so. as a support player i really hate laning with an EZ in lane cuz well he does no fukin damage rushing and building a

Supports like u are the fcking worst. I've seen so many monkys keep bullying their adc cuz they picked ezreal. Are u guys delusional? Yea he is kinda weak early one but once he gets his 2 core items that's it he's op now and insanely safe.

MrFawknSunshineOct 5, 20196 votes

yea but in an early game meta/high damage meta he is bad.

he gets punished hard early and loses lane

oh wait he is legit also the worst adc in the game.

and im not bullying . i simply stated i hate playing with an EZ cuz of his early game is complete shit

he has a 46.4% win rate currently in plat + elo

he is dog shit, build dog shit in lane , cant trade/fight in lane.

Cloud273Oct 6, 20192 votes

{quoted}

yea but in an early game meta/high damage meta he is bad.

he gets punished hard early and loses lane

oh wait he is legit also the worst adc in the game.

and im not bullying . i simply stated i hate playing with an EZ cuz of his early game is complete shit

he has a 46.4% win rate currently in plat + elo

he is dog shit, build dog shit in lane , cant trade/fight in lane.

I agree with you. Everything you said is true. Cooldowns and mana costs too high, base hp too low, garbage waveclear, gets abused while channeling ult cuz immobile, and literally EVERYONE outscales him. And he just has too much counterplay in general. All of his abilities can be dodged or avoided in some way. There's literally no point in playing Ezreal anymore. If you play him you're just giving your opponent a free win.

Rock MDOct 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

yea but in an early game meta/high damage meta he is bad.

he gets punished hard early and loses lane

oh wait he is legit also the worst adc in the game.

and im not bullying . i simply stated i hate playing with an EZ cuz of his early game is complete shit

he has a 46.4% win rate currently in plat + elo

he is dog shit, build dog shit in lane , cant trade/fight in lane.

This is his best meta, and he's the 3rd best ADC right now, right behind Kai'sa and Xayah.

He's incredibly safe and low teamfight dps doesn't matter when he has such high burst for the champions that jump on him and you should just never be teamfighting with Ezreal in the first place.

The only reason Ezreal is so low winrate is because he's top 3 hardest ADCs to master while being spammed by autofill monkeys like myself due to his safety.

MrFawknSunshineOct 7, 20192 votes

lol that was plat + world wide

a 46% win rate

so you can say its cuz of monkeys but that excludes any one under plat

he still is the worst adc. the stats prove it

Rock MDOct 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

lol that was plat + world wide

a 46% win rate

so you can say its cuz of monkeys but that excludes any one under plat

he still is the worst adc. the stats prove it

I think Grandmaster is a wee bit higher than plat. I still think I'm a monkey because there are things I need to learn about ADC role that I don't have up to par.

My point stands. The champion is extremely valuable but most players cannot take advantage of what his kit has to offer. That's why he's so popular in competitive play, where they can take advantage of his kit.

Also, Ezreal has the 2nd highest pickrate of any ADC, right behind Kai'sa, and 3rd highest of any champion, right behind Lee Sin and (again) Kai'sa. He really is an insanely popular champion that is rarely piloted correctly.

MrFawknSunshineOct 7, 20191 votes

ok in Master + for this patch world wide

47.22% win rate

MrFawknSunshineOct 7, 20192 votes

why do i have a feeling i know you? you arent from the houston ,tx area?

Rock MDOct 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

why do i have a feeling i know you? you arent from the houston ,tx area?

1 - No I'm not from Texas. Never been close to there.

{quoted}

ok in Master + for this patch world wide

47.22% win rate

2 - You missed my point entirely. I just said even in the highest elos Ezreal is played a lot by people (like myself) who have no right playing him. But, when you account for people who are actually really good at the champion, and who play him a lot competitively, you start to see why he's such a highly rated champion.

It's very common to see Ezreal consistently get low scores, get bullied out, and then come up way short and look like a bad champion. When Ezreals know how to take advantage of the champion and are aggressive players it's actually more scary than a good Draven.

SaezioOct 7, 20191 votes

Masters+ stats still have him at 46% winrate. So, I guess not even they know how to use him.

Challenger stats atm 44% winrate in 1850 games....

Yeah he op as fuck

Rock MDOct 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Masters+ stats still have him at 46% winrate. So, I guess not even they know how to use him.

Challenger stats atm 44% winrate in 1850 games....

Yeah he op as fuck

I literally just said that M, GM, and C players who SHOULDN'T play him gravitate toward him where the fuck is your reading comprehension?

Ezreal has and will always have a low winrate because the consistency required to play him is nonexistent in the autofill players that tend to pick him.

All the good AD players are playing Kai'sa right now because she's bar none the best AD pick by a mile. Ezreal is still a valuable pick but when the good ADs are playing Kai'sa and the bad players are playing Ezreal, of course his stats are going to look atrocious.

PhantomPranksterOct 5, 20194 votes

his ult does no damage when he builds AD, have you ever been hit by an AP ezreal ult?

BeatzBoyFTWOct 5, 20197 votes

{quoted}

his ult does no damage when he builds AD, have you ever been hit by an AP ezreal ult?

That's the point...? If you build AP, yes, it should hurt like a motherfker. If AD, it should deal significantly less, considering the fact that his build weighs heavily around building CDR from either one of the two item 3078 item 3025 & his Q lowering his cooldown more.

PhantomPranksterOct 5, 20193 votes

{quoted}

That's the point...? If you build AP, yes, it should hurt like a motherfker. If AD, it should deal significantly less, considering the fact that his build weighs heavily around building CDR from either one of the two & his Q lowering his cooldown more.

you arent making a point, his ult is insignificant when ad its just a finisher

BârdOct 5, 20196 votes

It used to be, because it would only end up dealing 30% damage if it passed through a creep wave.

Now its damage isn't reduced at all when it passes through targets, so if it hits you you're going to take ~800 damage.

650 (+100% bAD) is not insignificant in the slightest.

LightswornLanceOct 5, 20193 votes

I really think that ezreal should be an AP midlaner and not balanced around sheen items, but riot will do whatever they want.

MrFawknSunshineOct 5, 20191 votes

so you want to reduce the ad scaling on his ult?

cuz it scales on ad and ap and does magic damage.

350 / 500 / 650 (+ 100% bonus AD) (+ 90% AP)

BeatzBoyFTWOct 5, 20194 votes

{quoted}

so you want to reduce the ad scaling on his ult?

cuz it scales on ad and ap and does magic damage.

350 / 500 / 650 (+ 100% bonus AD) (+ 90% AP)

That, and revert the damage reduction on his ult, of which was removed back at Patch 8.23.

MrFawknSunshineOct 5, 20195 votes

you do know he is already the worst bot lane adc right now ?

MrFawknSunshineOct 5, 20194 votes

he has a 46% win rate yet im down voted cuz i stated he is the worst adc ?