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Why do people max E 2nd on Lee Sin?

I GANK LANES··5 votes·3,247 views

I'm honestly curious, it scales off bonus ad so leveling it is only giving it increased medicore base damage, and on top of that the cooldown doesn't go down. Versus maxing w giving you's a 200 shield at max rank on a short cooldown plus the 25% spell vamp and life steal. With the new masteries this benefits maxing w even more imo.

So what's the deal? On champion.gg the highest win rates and most win rates are maxing e first.

I saw on Rush's lee guide that he likes to put 3 points in w then max e, but I'd like to start some discussion on this.

And just to throw something else out there with people saying death's dance is garbage, maxing w and getting death's dance as your second damage item makes you extremely strong, ridiculous synergy.LeeSin

EDIT: that feel when you try and have a legitimate discussion on the boards and all the players that are on here just like to complain, circle jerk, and bandwagon. strong community.

22 Comments

FebruAhri6 votes

moar damage

Jefftiffy2 votes

{quoted}

moar damage

moar slows

Sightless664 votes

it scales off bonus ad so leveling it is only giving it increased medicore base damage

That's not really a correct statement. Scaling off of bonus ad vs total ad doesn't really matter for what you get for leveling the skill. Lee's Q only has bonus AD scaling, but every level gives you 60 damage, while the E also only has bonus AD scaling and gets 35 damage per level. Having bonus damage or total AD damage doesn't really mean a thing for whether or not the skill is worth maxing.

The reason people max E second is because Lee usually has to snowball off of a strong early and midgame, and for Lee that means taking advantage of his very high damage. To do that, he needs to have his ability damage, and he really, really needs the huge per-level scaling on cripple. Going form 20% slow to 60% is huge if you're trying to stick for someone long enough to kill them. W may keep you alive for longer, but staying alive isn't actually that valuable to Lee in the midgame if you can't burst someone down and/or hold someone down to pound on them.

W maxing is mainly going to be useful if you need to win sustained trades (which is often not how Lee wants to play), or if you are behind and aren't going to be able to make kills happen alone anyway (which often means you're going to lose, so the winrate there would be low even if it is the right choice). It can absolutely be very strong (particularly if you need 1-2 points for sustain to keep pressure up), but it's definitely the more situational pick.

And just to throw something else out there with people saying death's dance is garbage, maxing w and getting death's dance as your second damage item makes you extremely strong, ridiculous synergy.

Still pretty terrible. If I wanted a damage item I'd rather get more damage to get more use of the lifesteal and spell vamp I already have. Doubling down on sustain isn't worth getting a mediocre item.

Dediguise1 votes

{quoted}

W maxing is mainly going to be useful if you need to win sustained trades (which is often not how Lee wants to play), or if you are behind and aren't going to be able to make kills happen alone anyway (which often means you're going to lose, so the winrate there would be low even if it is the right choice). It can absolutely be very strong (particularly if you need 1-2 points for sustain to keep pressure up), but it's definitely the more situational pick.

And this really is the heart of the decision. During the mid game lee has a transition in playstyle. Maxing E 2nd allows you to continue the pressure to play a far more burst based lee sin. Maxing W second allows you to duel in rotations meaning you are diving in and out trying to inflict the maximum possible damage while taking as little damage as possible. This is the optimal way to fight bruisers and high damage tanks as long as they lack point and click cc. Both are viable.

Wolfram Oxford3 votes

for the damages

360D3GR3SS3 votes

More damage and reliable stronger slow. I put 2 points in w then max e after Q

The Bearded Bard2 votes

Doesn't really matter what you max second as long as you max Q first.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

Faster jungle clear and stronger slow. The difference between a 20% slow and a 60% slow at lvl 13 is pretty significant.

FortisDominus1 votes

no one maxes e second (atleast as far as i know anyway for the reasons you posted)

I GANK LANES1 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/LeeSin

FortisDominus1 votes

thats surprising too be honest, i guess people really do want more damage despite E sucking ass. LLOL

3ofGot40ve1 votes

I always max w second.. Don't know why you wouldn't.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak1 votes

They probably want the scaling slow in addition to the small amounts of damage you get while leveling it.

Koldheartedjsp1 votes

Lane lee main here

I like the e max first to wave clear, more reliable damage, and the alow.

A lvl 1 e + tiamat isn't enough to clear but a lvl 5 is

I GANK LANES1 votes

Thanks for the input guys ill try it out a couple games and see how it goes

Paroe1 votes

Lee sin should always get a maw of malmortus, imo. :c Its such a good MR item now.

I GANK LANES1 votes

it's almost always my 2nd damage item now, ive drop youmuu's and death's dance

Paroe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nerf my Q,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EA0nEYna,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-01-05T19:45:49.080+0000)

it's almost always my 2nd damage item now, ive drop youmuu's and death's dance

^^ On support lee, its the only damage item you really need too.

I GANK LANES1 votes

i only jungle lee

Sire Hippington1 votes

The slow, if maxed it's 3 times as powerfull as on rank 1, makeing his ganks/picks really potent as he just needs to get in E range and your screwed. It also boosts his wave clear and clearspeed vs wulfs/raptors.

I GANK LANES1 votes

yeah but i feel by the time you get rank 5 q you aren't ganking as much as skirmishing whereas i feel that a stronger shield would be more beneficial

Sire Hippington1 votes

40 shield and5% lifesteal compared to 35 aoe damage and+10% slow? Unless your haveing really prolonged fights, the higher damage and bigger burst should be more valuable in early-midgame skirmishes.

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