What else can go bot lane instead of a Marksman?

TehNACHO··1 votes·812 views

As an aside, I'm going to refrain from talking about Mordekaiser in terms of balance or whatnot. I've literally been unable to play since just before the Juggernaut patch due to a certain amount of water damage afflicting a certain computer that may or may not have been the only thing that could play League in my house at the moment. I really do however want a relatively intellectual conversation about what sort of possibilities there could be to replace the Marksmen.

Okay so quick run through as to why the bot lane ADC class exist. For a start, we have 3 lanes and more specifically 3 lanes of enemy minions to farm and obtain gold from: Three people must exist on a team our top, mid, and bot laner. A fourth resource, the Jungle, along with all the added benefits there is to have Smite on your team and all the negatives (at least until S5) there tends to be with Smite in lane, causes a Jungler to be an exceedingly favored role on the team. As there are 5 players per team, the fifth guy is forced into a role without gold, the support. Because of reasons too long to explain, we throw that 5th member bot, and this causes a problem for the primary bot laner.

This is actually the funny thing about what we now know as ADCs in the bot lane; their entire existence is actually largely defined by their support. If Summoner's Rift was a 4 or 6 player game, I promise you you'd see much more interesting metas if they had enough time to establish. Tangent aside, putting two people in a lane together actually causes a gigantic problem; experience. Put two people too close to each other anywhere outside of the Jungle and exp points are divided among them. This means that two parts of the damage triangle, Burst and Tankiness, have much less value in the bot lane (Burst has a tendency to rely on its base stats, Tankiness tends to rely on the defensive modifications of their abilities, and both rely on the added utility they get from leveling skills). On the other hand, DPS scales incredibly badly in this game at least based on levels alone since the most prominent form of DPS, auto attacking, only gains the most mediocre power ups through leveling up. Thus, Marksmen by design are the most favored to exist in bot lane with their supports through how League inbuilt.

You know in retrospect this isn't at all a "quick" run through at all but oh well, now we all know why ADCs exist. I do want to say that by this explanation alone, Marksmen aren't the only champions that can go bot, as melee auto attackers probably would fit the bill as well. In fact, I'd argue the only reason why we don't see more mADCs bot is simply because of a lack of tools and popular stigma. Our most recent mADC for example, Yasuo, was largely designed around facing a ranged threat. Even if the large majority of it was joking or casual, we all know of at least one Yasuo who rocked the bot lane if we've played since that long ago. Imagine if nearly all of Riot's advertisement and spoilers for him was centered around introducing him as a melee bot laner. Imagine if other mADCs would be rebalanced around fighting a ranged threat or if new ones are designed around it, that alone could introduce a whole new class to the bot lane other than simply just ranged Marksmen.

Mordekaiser is working around the exp problem by literally receiving 100% of the experience rather than getting the divided bit he gets from the support standing too close to him. That's cool and all, but it's not the most interesting way to solve a problem. I've pointed out that if mADCs simply had the tools to handle themselves even in a ranged environment, that it could actually help integrate them into the bot lane, but perhaps there are other ideas that exist that others have thought of. With that, I leave a question for those of you still reading: What else do you think can be done to help invite more diversity in our current bot lane meta?

EDIT: I think I've made it unfortunately unclear that I've been talking about this from a meta standpoint, and not just a casual standpoint.

8 Comments

Matezoide1 votes

Pretty much everything. Hell, it is recommended that you take a bruiser or burst mage Bot if you are forced to ADC when you cant play the role competently.

Irelia is probably the best bruiser to take bot, due to her innate tenacity, gap closer, CC and tankyness.

Crett1 votes

MasterYi this only works when adcs facecheck bushes or for whatever reason let you get in melee range, allowing you to e+auto+w+auto+q+auto+ignite combo

Mimy1 votes

Here in bronze... anything botlane works if played right..

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

anything you want. marksman and support bot is just meta,and you dont have to go according to meta

AkabaneKun1 votes

JarvanIV Leona good times.

Paero1 votes

I went rammus and garen bot by accident. the jungle came from behind the tower to gank us, rammus taunt and garens tankiness ensured we got first blood, along with two more kills.

If people see things that are out of meta, they tend to forget how to play

Hasztalan21 votes

Any champion with strong all in potential and reliable gapclose can do it at bot.

Pantheon XinZhao Rengar Irelia just to name a few.

Kouga1 votes

{quoted}

Okay so quick run through as to why the bot lane ADC class exist. For a start, we have 3 lanes and more specifically 3 lanes of enemy minions to farm and obtain gold from: Three people must exist on a team our top, mid, and bot laner. A fourth resource, the Jungle, along with all the added benefits there is to have Smite on your team and all the negatives (at least until S5) there tends to be with Smite in lane, causes a Jungler to be an exceedingly favored role on the team. As there are 5 players per team, the fifth guy is forced into a role without gold, the support. Because of reasons too long to explain, we throw that 5th member bot, and this causes a problem for the primary bot laner.

I think your analysis is slightly off here but, to get to your central point, what could replace a marksman?

Ranged ADCs contribute to the team by providing sustained, high damage output. Damage that is, largely, unaffected by most soft CC (they can still AA while silenced, slowed, etc) and ramps up sharply in the late game. Generally this is done through Crit chance - doubling down on their damage output. This can also be done through "alternative damage sources" as I call them (Vayne's Silver Bolts, for example) or through damage steroids of some kind.

The problem is that speaking in meta terms (meaning, if we ignore the occasional silly comp that works on pure novelty and look at the course of ten, a hundred, a thousand+ games) it can be difficult to replace that position. Burst AP Mages can provide even more damage in a short period of time, but generally run into the issue of being dead once their kit is on CD, or running out of their resources (mana/energy). An ADC without mana can still kill you. Veigar, no matter how much he's farmed up his Q, can't kill you without mana.

Melee ADCs tend to be, generally, too risky to completely replace the role. An rADC is only able to put out their damage because they can sit back behind their front line and AA. An mADC will have a harder time because they generally won't have the same kind of protection and are more susceptible to kiting.

So what's the solution? I think you could get away with it a few times if you ran a tank-heavy comp, with a team that could hold them down while the mADC destroyed them. Amumu jungle, Leona support + Yasuo or Yi, game over if they play it right. Heck, I run Pantheon + Leona bot lane with my buddy just because its hilarious and usually ends the game early.

For a long term meta though, I don't think that'll change unless the entire mechanic system is changed. Right now ADCs benefit hugely from lifesteal, where very few mages feel good about spellvamp. Then there are crits. AP ratios and Rabadons are trickier than regular AD because each mage will have different AP ratios. But all most ADCs (Kalista) have rely on their 1:1 AD AA. So you have both damage and sustain that cater to an entire class of Champions and let them play this role.

But if they changed the way abilities/stats work, I could definitely see ADCs become less of a necessity. For example, make it so that: Magic Damage = Spell Vamp. Physical Damage = Life Steal. You'd completely open up the field for AD Casters to fill a different role, and they could change Spell Vamp to work better for mages. That's just one way, but there are others.

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