" Champs with no mana are OP"

BurningDolphins ·Oct 7, 2016·1 votes·2,125 views

I see a lot of people at the lower Elo say this. I always assumed that if a champ had no mana, they must be lacking something in another area to compensate for the advantage on other laners that do work around their mana costs. Are champs with no mana justified? From what I can tell, all the champs with no mana are pretty damn strong. Example: Riven, Zac, Yasuo, Katarina, so on. I guess I don't have muchh of a point but I wish I knew why these champs were granted this advantage. A lot of people have to really work around their mana and can only use abilities for when their laner engages. While other laners get to farm with their abilities

17 Comments

AstôlfoOct 7, 20164 votes

"all the champs with no mana are pretty damn strong"

proceeds to list Katarina

????

And champs without mana or resources are specifically balanced around that.

BurningDolphins Oct 7, 20161 votes

So have you never been dumpstered by a katarina? I didn't say she is in a good spot or whatever but she is definitely strong lol

AstôlfoOct 7, 20162 votes

I have been dumpstered by Katarina repeatedly. I am also garbage at the game, as is just about everyone else in my rank, not to mention I play mostly normals. I fail to see how that's relevant, considering any actually good player knows how to respect her damage/range/burst, as well as ward properly and avoid midlane roaming ganks. In addition, they also know how to just shut her down as well as just buying MR to neuter her damage to the point she will die very quickly if she tries to pull any sort of tricks.

BurningDolphins Oct 7, 20161 votes

Look man, this isn't a katarina is op post. I was just making a point that it is a noticeable advantage to be manaless. UNLESS, their are reasons I'm unaware of that balances that champ out. I literally said I just wanted to understand these champs

AstôlfoOct 7, 20161 votes

I didn't say it was.

For instance, with Katarina:

Her early laning phase is very bad, in addition to the fact that she's also melee range, and just farming by Q itself will not achieve anything meaningful, forcing her to get into melee range/the blade-twirl range repeatedly to farm. She is very, very squishy, just like any other assassin, and has to get into near point-blank range to be able to pull off good team sweeps/cleanups. Without resets, she is worthless, aka, if said first target does not die through either items or protective abilities of their own or their team or any other such item (revival/stasis/etc being number 1 way to ruin a Kat's day), she will die, with no way to escape. She relies on snowballing and getting fed to actually have enough AP to matter. Yes, she can pick up clean-up kills here and there, but with only that much gold, just getting a bit of MR or Hexdrinker (AD)/Abyssal or Zhonya's or something of that sort (AP) are enough to stop her.

BurningDolphins Oct 7, 20161 votes

Bro literally why'd you take all that time to talk about katarina lol. I'm talking about all of them as a whole not just individuals. I was talking about the very concept of a champ with no mana

AstôlfoOct 7, 20161 votes

Because Riven is good when mastered. Zac is strong in general (not OP, just strong). Yasuo is decent with a good amount of experience. Katarina's the exception, being plain garbage in pretty much anything past shit ELO like what I play/belong in.

EndlessSorcererOct 7, 20163 votes

Aatrox If only that were true.

Wolfram OxfordOct 7, 20162 votes

Riven should have some type of resource similar to energy IMO, Yasuo probably wouldn't need a resource unless they took away a passive and added in bonus affects similar to rage, Zac, that would be interesting, they could buff some abilities, and then this would make him better built AP, Kat, she is weak early and then if she had mana Morello would make her avoid going oom, plus it would allow CDR to be even more efficient on her, which is scary to think about.

MLDzXnRRROct 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E7eFXJ4U,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-07T18:53:28.946+0000)

Riven should have some type of resource similar to energy IMO, Yasuo probably wouldn't need a resource unless they took away a passive and added in bonus affects similar to rage, Zac, that would be interesting, they could buff some abilities, and then this would make him better built AP, Kat, she is weak early and then if she had mana Morello would make her avoid going oom, plus it would allow CDR to be even more efficient on her, which is scary to think about.

She already reduces healing with her ult... How Morello will make her OP? Spamming every ability when it's off cd is not very hard to do with the manaless champions.

Wolfram OxfordOct 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She already reduces healing with her ult... How Morello will make her OP? Spamming every ability when it's off cd is not very hard to do with the manaless champions.

Morello would give her CDR, I am not talking about the passive, and it would be pointless giving her mana since Morello would also take care of that.

MLDzXnRRROct 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E7eFXJ4U,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-07T19:01:10.102+0000)

Morello would give her CDR, I am not talking about the passive, and it would be pointless giving her mana since Morello would also take care of that.

CDR is useless on her - unless they change her passive. She wants stacked AP and MS, not mana or CDR.

Rustling BushOct 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E7eFXJ4U,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-07T18:53:28.946+0000)

Riven should have some type of resource similar to energy IMO, Yasuo probably wouldn't need a resource unless they took away a passive and added in bonus affects similar to rage, Zac, that would be interesting, they could buff some abilities, and then this would make him better built AP, Kat, she is weak early and then if she had mana Morello would make her avoid going oom, plus it would allow CDR to be even more efficient on her, which is scary to think about.

buff zac abilities? your sick

Rustling BushOct 7, 20161 votes

well with a little sustain they can stay in lane almost indefinitely.

BurningDolphins Oct 7, 20161 votes

This is a big thing. That these laners don't need to back when they're oom ,because they don't run out, or can't follow up on a gank because they're oom, or lose their 1v1 because they were oom

WoodakoodashoodaOct 7, 20161 votes

Ask yourself these questions.

What can a champion accomplish for me that another champion of mine isn't already accomplishing? Would replacing one champion for another in the same role with the same purpose benefit me? Or would the champion fulfill an entirely different purpose that would benefit me just as equally if not more?

Then discover, for yourself, the answers by practicing other champions.

Desolas ArteriusOct 7, 20161 votes

Zac actually uses health to cast abilities. So he does have a type of resource. Similar to Mundo and Vlad who use health to use abilities, as do others.

But the easiest way to understand these champs when it comes to power is how they're gated while being resourceless. Some have special restrictions, others have reduced damage/growth compared to mana champs. It all depends on what that champion uses. But the easiest thing to remember is each is gated in some way that reduces their power compared to a mana champion. So while they seem OP compared to mana champs, they're really at the same level since some of their abilities and power are gated by specific requirements/mechanics. Those who learn to work around those will excel, just as those will who learn to work around Mana and M-Regen.

If you're curious to read more, the wiki has some good examples of how champs are gated for being manaless.