Why does Zoe gets an actual update to her annoyance in-lane, but Yasuo doesn't?

BeatzBoyFTW·Sep 2, 2018·29 votes·7,493 views

You're planning to push Zoe up to a point where you're removing her Bubble Floor Trap (although I'm aware they're gonna up her base damage on her E pretty high), why can't Yasuo at least gets some sort of update that won't heavily change his playstyle? You could at very least put an HP bar on his W or notify his opponent to being able to know which unit he has already recently dashed to, either this or make his E contain charges.

54 Comments

Rathar DashingSep 2, 201824 votes

Obviously because Riot hates women

DiamondSeedSep 2, 20185 votes

underrated comment

BeatzBoyFTWSep 2, 20184 votes

I don't know what's going on with Riot having problems with women and all, but please stop it. It's getting overrated.

AmazoXSep 2, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what's going on with Riot having problems with women and all, but please stop it. It's getting overrated.

Are you serious???

BeatzBoyFTWSep 3, 20181 votes

Yup. I remembered when Boards is mainly used for balance discussion, and now it became nothing but a politic reddit website...

Fízz v2Sep 2, 201810 votes

From 00:00 to 02:30 am every day, Riot should only allow female champs to be played imo.

IcyPepperSep 3, 20181 votes

What about Blitzcrank robot Nunu and Viktor ? I don't think they're programmed with binary.

RanmaruSep 2, 20187 votes

What was the point in buying the pp zoe skin when the only real difference is the E?

Chembaron YamadaSep 2, 20181 votes

Still water effects on her Q and R.

PsyrixSep 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What was the point in buying the pp zoe skin when the only real difference is the E?

E was the almost the entire reason I wanted the skin... specifically the trap

Edge of DaybreakSep 2, 20184 votes

I'd imagine it's because zoe is a problem all the way up to pro while yasuo isn't really a problem outside of being annoying.

IllabetheSep 2, 20182 votes

Yasuo is the top champ in NA on many frequent high elo situations.

AmazoXSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo is the top champ in NA on many frequent high elo situations.

Prove it.

SilverjustSep 2, 20184 votes

Or give him mana, or make his tornado harder to hit

IllabetheSep 2, 20181 votes

Or just make the Tornado charge last a shorter time. I've had a Yasuo carry a tornado charge from a lane minion kill 1/4 of the way down mid lane and Tornado unsuspecting lane defenders and 1v3 because of it (and a major bug that exists between Yasuo's E and Ornn's R)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2k5NsS8Uy0

(I didn't record for this snippet his entire Tornado Charge, but the Charge was gained after he took our side red, went mid to about where first turret was, and killed a wave of 6-7 minions..... and still had his tornado charge by the time the video starts) About the only thing I did wrong in this fight...... I E'd Yasuo the first time, because I knew E to the broken turret wouldn't hit him. Everything else hit, except ofc where he used ANOTHER Tornado to stop my second E mid cast, after he bugged out and skilled right through my R knockup, which if he hadn't, he would have been dead.)

IllabetheSep 2, 20184 votes

Where are you seeing this?

And if so...... they are burying Zoe for good. I have exactly lost ONE game to a Zoe since she came out. In some 2900+ games. She's one of the easiest champs to deal with as long as you don't pull out Summoners in a 1v1.....

I mean.... if true..... the bubble is literally 80% of Zoe's zone control. Many players INTENTIONALLY miss E, to make an opponent walk a certain way into a predictable path for a Q. Sleep (almost 80% of the time) isn't the objective, because sleep can be popped (and tenacity) before the target wakes. What's the use of an E if you can only use it up close where a diver is within 400-500 range of you ready to kill you? Most will kill you before that 2 sec sleep activates.

The notes (that are now deleted) seem to suggest they are literally making her a 1 skill champ (Nerfing W more, taking away almost all utility from E, and R is more or less useless except extending Q).

She's going to be a paperweight on every team she's a part of.

Sebastit7dSep 2, 20182 votes

as long as you don't pull out Summoners in a 1v1....

So handicap yourself to even have the slightest chance at fighting her, that sure is great design. She gets to use her own summs but you don't, also if you do she becomes even stronger. Seriously, just because you get slightly better chances at survivingagainst her by doing that doesn't make it any more fun to play against.

IllabetheSep 2, 20181 votes

That's like saying..... not being able to counter a counter champ is a bad design. Summoners take up a slow on her skill bar, and are ultimately inactive at all if she has none. Then she basically has 2 skills, whereas you have 4, and Magic Resist affects Zoe almost more than any other champ in the game, because % reduction in damage is HUGE on big power spike mages. If she misses E, and you don't use summoners, she's dead. Period. Her Passive and Q won't do enough damage up close to kill you.

I have lost ONE GAME in 2018 against Zoe. One. She is a lead weight on her team in the scope of an entire game. She rules MID lane. That's all.

FlameHalbrdOkidoSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Where are you seeing this?

And if so...... they are burying Zoe for good. I have exactly lost ONE game to a Zoe since she came out. In some 2900+ games. She's one of the easiest champs to deal with as long as you don't pull out Summoners in a 1v1.....

I mean.... if true..... the bubble is literally 80% of Zoe's zone control. Many players INTENTIONALLY miss E, to make an opponent walk a certain way into a predictable path for a Q. Sleep (almost 80% of the time) isn't the objective, because sleep can be popped (and tenacity) before the target wakes. What's the use of an E if you can only use it up close where a diver is within 400-500 range of you ready to kill you? Most will kill you before that 2 sec sleep activates.

The notes (that are now deleted) seem to suggest they are literally making her a 1 skill champ (Nerfing W more, taking away almost all utility from E, and R is more or less useless except extending Q).

She's going to be a paperweight on every team she's a part of.

then don't make E a skill shot? Make it work like Swain's Vision of Empire instead, a trap AoE with a short delay, but give it a vel'koz E-like cast animation where it shows everyone where the skill is headed but it doesn't hit anyone until its reached its destination after a delay.

people hate the trap because they see it as a hand holding mechanic: Zoe missed the skillshot but still gets the trap afterwards which can still catch you. If the trap is the most important part of her E then just make it a trap, then no one can complain about it.

honestly they both need annoyance reworks...or rather get rid of all things in their kits that are either unfair or unfun which give them unessecary advantages without using skill

IllabetheSep 3, 20181 votes

The skill shot mechanic is what made it separate from swain..... It has an infinite range as long as there's a wall. Likewise, the skill shot portion is VERY hard to hit reliably. The Geometry's not there 99% of the time unless you're throwing a bubble into a spot between a turret and a wall..... in which case the person hit by it..... asked for it.

If not thrown through a wall, the range is pretty limited (and also the only time the skill shot portion of the skill usually hits)

Think about what they are trying to do there:

They are basically punishing Zoe, because other people are incapable of walking around her bubble, and instead walk into it.... If you can't avoid walking into a bubble, you're probably a pretty low elo, or in such a high pressure situation you're going to die anyways.

Weiss GuertenaSep 2, 20184 votes

Because Yasuo has a much bigger, more rabid playerbase which also buys much more skins than Zoe has. This is nothing but blatant favoritism: remember when Lee was going to get some rightfully deserved changes but then his playerbase took up torches and pitchforks? Same situation here - Riot is afraid of killing the golden goose that Yasuo is.

And you can say whatever you want about Zoe, but she's an epitome of good design when compared to other champions infesting midlane like Yasuo, Zed, LB, Fizz or Talon. As annoying as she is, she can't delete me purely through point and click damage nor does she have a shitload of safety nets in case that she fucks up.

AmazoXSep 2, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weiss Guertena,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BsA0gIsJ,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-09-02T18:56:27.926+0000)

Because Yasuo has a much bigger, more rabid playerbase which also buys much more skins than Zoe has. This is nothing but blatant favoritism: remember when Lee was going to get some rightfully deserved changes but then his playerbase took up torches and pitchforks? Same situation here - Riot is afraid of killing the golden goose that Yasuo is.

And you can say whatever you want about Zoe, but she's an epitome of good design when compared to other champions infesting midlane like Yasuo, Zed, LB, Fizz or Talon. As annoying as she is, she can't delete me purely through point and click damage nor does she have a shitload of safety nets in case that she fucks up.

She has to do one right thing to delete you.

Weiss GuertenaSep 2, 20181 votes

And that's one thing more than some of the aforementioned champions have to do, if by "thing she has to do" we mean "something that requires effort". Because LB dashing from half a screen away, doing Q+R+Gunblade+Ignite and applying Electrocute in the process doesn't require an ounce of skill or effort. Same goes for Fizz using his unmissable Sheen-empowered Q, applying his R point-blank, then hitting you with unmissable W, Electrocute and Ignite. And how can we forget Zed, who can R you, miss both shuriken (which are supposed to be his main source of damage), and still kill you purely through unavoidable damage of P+E+R+Duskblade+Electrocute/Ignite.

As long as external sources of damage are allowed to be strong enough for some champions to kill purely through point-and-click damage, Zoe having to put in effort for just one thing will be infinitely healthier than those champions are.

Chembaron YamadaSep 2, 20182 votes

Are they really going through with removing her trap, tho? I can't find anything about that, just saw that change showing up in PBE a single time but I doubted that they will do it in the end.

HaIlMonitorSep 2, 20182 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/yasuo/all

Just look at how popular he is (over the last 4 years his lowest is 12% popularity) . If they changed him to make the other 80% of the playerbase that hates him, not they may make a massive amount of players angry and lose money. After launch month Zoe never got above 10% and most people were on the op hype train so they can nerf the crap out of her with low lashback.

FirewaterDMSep 2, 20182 votes

Honestly this is a Mood. Like I get how Zoe's annoying, but at the same time the counterplay vs. her makes fucking sense and exists. She's kinda mobile but not super so, you understand when you get outplayed and lose the 1 v 1/get E'ed and one shot. Like 100% you fucked up.

In a way its sad she gets gutted bcos people don't understand that but they're fine with mr. I make a huge amount of the cast useless between mobility, stupid mechanics or an ability that means if your autos are ranged you can't damage him if it's up and he doesn't fuck up.

idk the counterplay makes sense, but if Zoe's bad Yasuo shoulda been reworked and or the dumb shit of his kit (Passive + W) removed or gutted years ago.

Ok sure but whySep 2, 20182 votes

They should make Yasuo's wall as a line-case, sort of like Victor's E, but faster and still in front of him. That would at least make it less annoying to play against, when he uses it 0.01 milliseconds before a projectile hits him.

princeblumpkinSep 2, 20182 votes

The only problem with Yasuo's laning is that a lot of lower elo players can't handle it. You simply don't see higher elo players complaining about facing Yasuo in lane because their mechanics are good enough to abuse his counterplay.

AmazoXSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The only problem with Yasuo's laning is that a lot of lower elo players can't handle it. You simply don't see higher elo players complaining about facing Yasuo in lane because their mechanics are good enough to abuse his counterplay.

He doesn't have his passive shield during laning phase at all in high ELO, its gone with a spit from a ranged character & they know how to freeze the wave and abuse it to make him closer to their tower for an easy gank otherwise he loses the lane.

specter424Sep 2, 20181 votes

The only time I see a Yasuo fail is if he gets way too overconfident in his champions power and dies 1v5 throwing his lead all game or gets camped. There is almost no situation where Yasuo loses 1v1 mid. Unlike most melees, he is actually not melee. He waveclears better than just about every mage and has a better one item powerspike than they do. All it takes is one tornado ( which costs nothing btw and its not like you can heavily punish him for missing it with the threat of him dashing 6 times and murdering you ) for him to either kill or chunk 60-80% of his enemies health. At that point you have to recall or hide under your tower or else he will dash through 4 minions and you for interaction and balance purposes. Mages have to either harass or waveclear and yasuo doesn't have to put himself in a position where the enemy can do both with one cast. If you harass Yasuo he can simply windwall your major damage ability and proceed to barf on the minion wave while you sit under tower contemplating suicide.

tl;dr You have to fuck up as Yasuo to lose, not get outplayed.

JbelsSep 2, 20181 votes

Remember when Trinimortal made a video explaining that he thought Yasuo was balanced because his Double Crit passive was used as a balance lever. Never once has Riot nerfed Yasuo through his items. Because that would be stupid. Because it nerfs 25 other champions that have nothing to do with Yasuo. It's always been his numbers, or his mechanics.

Main point? Having a double crit passive today is stupid, especially when the crit items that the champion with that double crit passive takes give problematic advantages (As in, Yasuo gets 100% Crit chance off of IE and one crit item, and does numerically superior damage starting at that point compared to other champions who purchase the same two items.) Yes, there are balancing factors such as skill cap and expensiveness of the items, but it irks me that IE and crit damage in general were supposed to be balanced around being late game 3-4 item consistent crit damage, while Yasuo (literally) flies in the face of that.

AmazoXSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Remember when Trinimortal made a video explaining that he thought Yasuo was balanced because his Double Crit passive was used as a balance lever. Never once has Riot nerfed Yasuo through his items. Because that would be stupid. Because it nerfs 25 other champions that have nothing to do with Yasuo. It's always been his numbers, or his mechanics.

Main point? Having a double crit passive today is stupid, especially when the crit items that the champion with that double crit passive takes give problematic advantages (As in, Yasuo gets 100% Crit chance off of IE and one crit item, and does numerically superior damage starting at that point compared to other champions who purchase the same two items.) Yes, there are balancing factors such as skill cap and expensiveness of the items, but it irks me that IE and crit damage in general were supposed to be balanced around being late game 3-4 item consistent crit damage, while Yasuo (literally) flies in the face of that.

Yasuo has critical damage penalties on his AA by 10% and 25% on his Stel Tempest, which also only procs On-Hit effects on the first target hit by it.

JbelsSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo has critical damage penalties on his AA by 10% and 25% on his Stel Tempest, which also only procs On-Hit effects on the first target hit by it.

Made up entirely by how much of his damage is converted to true damage by IE and Conqueror.

AmazoXSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Made up entirely by how much of his damage is converted to true damage by IE and Conqueror.

At least the damage is reduced anyway.

Rathar DashingSep 3, 20181 votes

Actually it's now only 10% reduction on his Q. Apparently Riot in all their ~~favoritism~~ wisdom decided he would be too weak after the changes to IE and PD.

AmazoXSep 3, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BsA0gIsJ,comment-id=000800000001,timestamp=2018-09-03T01:47:54.785+0000)

Actually it's now only 10% reduction on his Q. Apparently Riot in all their ~~favoritism~~ wisdom decided he would be too weak after the changes to IE and PD.

He became the champion with the 2nd lowest win rate next to Ryze, that's why.

Rathar DashingSep 3, 20182 votes

Mhm, right along with all the other crit users. But guess who they decided to hotfix right away.

YuGiHoSep 2, 20181 votes

they really should let people know what targets yas has dashed too.Zoe w letts everyone know what minion is carrying a spell so its not a surprise when one drops but for yas you just have to assume he is going to dash 6-7 times per minion wave but the player vs yas never gets to know that minion is available to dash to.

SugeMinPikkSep 2, 20181 votes

[deleted]

BeatzBoyFTWSep 2, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Because yasuo is not a problem

stay silver

Says a Level 19....

SugeMinPikkSep 2, 20183 votes

Is it really so hard for silvers to wrap their heads around the concept of "multiple accounts"

BeatzBoyFTWSep 2, 201814 votes

Cz why would you need to hide behind a smurf account to post a discussion, if you're so confident in insulting other people's rank? I could be talking to a Bronze player for all I know.

Otherwise, if you have nothing to discuss about instead of being disrespectful, then leave.

AirKingNeoSep 2, 20181 votes

because Yasuo's lane pattern is only annoying to low elo players while Zoe literally breaks the game at high elo.

NyarlathοtepSep 2, 20181 votes

Favouritism.

VexingRavenSep 3, 20181 votes

It's not just lane that makes Yasuo annoying. It's the fact that he can build first item shiv to make his already high base MS even higher, and can dash up an entire wave 1-hitting the entire thing then zoom off to jungle or another lane and do the same thing, while his opponents are still killing the wave.