Ok, honestly... Ziggs 35% execute on towers is broken AF.

Raoul·Jan 7, 2017·50 votes·9,039 views

I just bought this guy and he is fun as hell (unless you get ganked 24/7 like in my first game with him), I love spamming bombs and stuff, but honestly, his execute on towers is broken AF.

In my last game, I took out 8 towers, and there was no counterplay at all for the enemy team. I went top when Irelia pushed out Nautilus... BOOM. I sneaked bot lane while they were farming... BOOM.

I mean... him going full Demolition man on towers is part of him, sure, but 25-35% is just too much. I mean, hello? 35% thats one third of the Towers HP...

I think it should be like... 15-25% at max.

43 Comments

JunkοJan 7, 201713 votes

Yeah tbh it should stay at 25% at all ranks. Hell even 25% is pretty big.

D357R0Y3RJan 7, 20172 votes

should be 15 or 20

kolpy99Jan 8, 201713 votes

It's been like that since mage update. It's only broken because people are actually using it now lmao

Ariel the CruelJan 8, 201712 votes

I picked him up after the mage update and was accused of trolling with a useless champ. A few meta shifts later that have no effect on him what-so-ever. "Nerf Ziggs."

This community never fails to amuse.

AnidanJan 8, 20171 votes

Happens in every game where you can switch up strategies, to be fair. Anything considered 'meta' is thought to be the only efficient way to play the game, regardless of whatever else is out there - be that in MMOs, FPS, MOBAs, etc.

ChaoticPineconeJan 8, 20176 votes

Well, to be fair, the changes to the meta rose Zigg's stock. Zigg's current state is a combination of a few things - the first was the ADC update (then subsequent nerfs to some of them), then the mage update, then first turret gold added to the game, the recent buffs to supports with Redemption and Locket - all of which which all culminated into the "4 man gank bot as early as possible" strats. And in this meta, Ziggs is strong.

Zigg's direct power may not have changed, but his relative power has gone up

ElikainJan 8, 20173 votes

The sooner people realize that meta isn't law, the sooner we can have more variety when it comes to champion picks in our games. Marksmen aren't required for a team to function, you can substitute them with a mage but you have to know how to play with no AD DPS (unless you have an AD assassin mid).

There are a lot of champions that are viable but outside of the meta and what annoys me is when people come here and complain how Riot should artificially make the meta spotlight wider to accommodate more champions. But when Riot did that with Mordekaiser (he was an experiment to see if more roles can fit into a duo lane), people thought that it was Riot's goal to make Morde a melee Marksman... And now we're seeing a mage bot pop up naturally.

I find it funny how when Riot wants to make a change, everyone is against it but when it happens on it's own, then it's "unique" and Riot shouldn't touch it.

AmonTheFallenJan 23, 20171 votes

? The last one is bad. Morde was in absolute broken state. Also a lot of people want mages out of bot lane and say to Riot to not just touch it but to straight up buff ADCs.

Imo some indirect buffs to ADCs are needed. The tower protection down bot lane needs to get out. Supports needs to have less gold so the Brand and Zyra supports cant have the same items or higher as mid laner (spellthief is broken). Some item prices change. Tank items<<<APC items<<ADC items.

Nerf champs and items and masteries that are issue. (Lee, Courage, Vi, Ivern, Zac, Hecarim, Frozen mallet, Black cleaver atd...)

ElikainJan 23, 20171 votes

Supports needs to have less gold so the Brand and Zyra supports cant have the same items or higher as mid laner (spellthief is broken)

I don't know if you've done calculations but CS and kills offer way more gold than a gold generating item like Frost Queen's Claim. You're getting nowhere near "the same items as a mid laner or higher" as you claim. I manage to get around 1000-1500 gold with this FCQ, if i'm actively trying to expend it's charges and depending on how long the game lasts. Up to that point in the game, that's a free Needlessly Large Rod, Boots and a Health Potion. And that comes way later into the game, where champions with a steady gold income are way more decked out than a support with a FCQ and its extra gold.

The notion of cutting down on support's passive gold income is ridiculous as your way of toning down Brand andd Zyra (because of their great synergy with Raylai's and Liandry's that have gotten massively cheaper since Rylai's has gotten nerfed) is to cut down the gold for the class entirely. If there are issues with Brand and Zyra, it's definitely those two items and how cheap they've gotten. Not to mention that the way they deal damage makes the application of Liandry's and Rylai's easier.

GrReaper96Jan 8, 20179 votes

Well considering how paper towers are its not much difference

devdev463Jan 7, 20177 votes

It does feel very annoying every time I'm against him he's pushing into us and our tower is low I'm like ok let's defend this then it explodes instantly lul. I kind of want it to stay as it's just me not adapting to the information in front of me and it does seem like a funny niche for a champion to have. Gotta differentiate him from xerath in some way and I think this was good enough.

ReZisT LustJan 8, 20171 votes

Sivir W max is a good counter to ziggs

excodarJan 7, 20176 votes

If you think his w is the issue, you should see the damage his passive does to towers late game. It does like almost half if not more of inhib towers.

ArchaotistJan 8, 20177 votes

New qt vid he two shots the tower https://youtu.be/1bQ6aZBC6qA?t=562

NodirjonSattarovJan 8, 20174 votes

he has triple mountain drake and elder and baron.

ParcevalJan 8, 20173 votes

He doesn't have elder or baron

He does, however, have a full build with lich bane doing double damage to turrets + triple mountain.

TheOnlyJoeJan 8, 20171 votes

Still doesn't justify the damage. Ziggs is ment to be a siege champion but his passive and W combined just feel absurd 320 + 100% AP on-hit for his passive late game against structures, combine that with Lichbane and you're going to do insane damage VS towers even without mountain drakes

EmollientNut0Jan 8, 20175 votes

Ziggs has so many problems that they didn't address. They just slapped some random unbalanceable effect on one ability and said "New and improved."

AkesgerothJan 8, 20174 votes

I'm gonna guess people saw MagikarpUsedFly's video and have been playing the copycat.

If you watch that video, you'll also notice how goddam useless his Q has become in recent years.

Shuyin178Jan 8, 20174 votes

I love how people complain about this now instead of 6 months ago during the MYMU only because he's seeing play in bot lane now.

LegitBacon66Jan 7, 20173 votes

Ziggs R alone does half your HP

Guy Fox TeemoJan 8, 20173 votes

Its been that way for the past 7 months, no bitching about it now.

God people always find a way to complain, when things get popular even though nothing about the meta has changed in which would be in Ziggs favor, just people finding out after so long that he's strong.

GULAG 4 UJan 7, 20172 votes

Lol you removed the 9/11 joke.

I wasn't suggesting you to remove it, I was just kidding about someone getting triggered over it.

RaoulJan 7, 20171 votes

Well, it might have been tasteless, wasnt thinking when I wrote it.

GULAG 4 UJan 7, 20171 votes

I think it was fine, it wasn't offensive at all IMO. But then I'm not american, but I could see people who have lost loved ones to 9/11 being annoyed over it.

DragonSheaJan 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Lol you removed the 9/11 joke.

I wasn't suggesting you to remove it, I was just kidding about someone getting triggered over it.

A#"! H#)/"¤"

Mysticman89Jan 7, 20172 votes

I'm fairly sure that ziggs normally maxes that last so it'd only be 25% until late game normally. By late game almost any champ can melt a third of the towers health pretty quickly if uncontested

If he's using his demo charge thing on towers, theres also no real escape for him if people jump on him.

I haven't really played much ziggs (got an S rank in aram, no longer have reason to play him as a support main), but as far as I can tell, he wave clears and pushes towers well, but thats about it, so dealing with ziggs would be like dealing with a splitpusher.

RaoulJan 7, 20173 votes

Actually, his teamfight power is good as well. Hies Q is long range, high AoE dmg, low CD and once you got unsed to it pretty easy to hit.

JunkοJan 8, 20171 votes

Wouldn't say it's easy to hit, but it's such on a low CD that it doesn't really matter if you miss a bunch of times.

Votable JesterJan 8, 20172 votes

Idk about the Ziggs bot build, but in his mid build, he typically maxes W last. So it basically is a 25% execute until around the end of the mid-game.

CastaneanJan 8, 20172 votes

I mean, sieging is Ziggs' specialty. I don't really have much experience playing with, as or against Ziggs, but he can't be that much more annoying or hard to deal with than split-pushers already are. Especially lower ELO.

He IS also sacrificing two kinda important things to execute a turret; His safety and his one hard-CC ability. His W has a pretty long cooldown, so if he gets jumped after throwing it, he's kinda pretty much very dead.

Again though; This is just drawn from thought alone, not experience. I wont claim there's no way he's possibly a bit overtuned, but he does have some clear drawbacks.

DragonSheaJan 7, 20171 votes

35% is still good

If Ziggs was Lv 18

TwinkieProJan 8, 20171 votes

A friend of mine would basically spam midlane ziggs and do exactly what you do all the time. He had a fairly good winrate for a silver 3 on ziggs too.

Troll for TrumpJan 8, 20171 votes

If you were around in the farming meta where Ori and Ziggs were dominant, you'd learn that both of them were heavy lategame champs. Ori has better farming and harass and teamfight, while Ziggs is more of a squishy carry. You have to shut him down early. He's a lategame champ. If you let him live long, he can destroy anything.

It's like Kog'maw, you have to shut him down early and focus him in fights, like you should with a carry. Both of them have bad peel.

TheOnlyJoeJan 8, 20171 votes

But kog'maw didn't come in one-shotting towers

Troll for TrumpJan 8, 20171 votes

He came out by being a giant attackspeed bot that was practically unkillable with W

MatakeJan 8, 20171 votes

He executes turrets? o_o

statelesskillerJan 8, 20171 votes

yup been that way since the mid year mage update. read your patchnotes

Shuyin178Jan 8, 20171 votes

His Satchel Charge (W) executes towers based on its rank when thrown onto them, but can't damage them unless they're within that execute range.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 8, 20171 votes

ok but who maxes W early on ziggs its useless in every other situation. his passive does like 20-30% of the turret hp anyway at the point whre he maxes W. or more at level 18 tbh.

Unpermabannable Jan 8, 20171 votes

I said this when his rework first dropped and everyone was screaming counter play at me. Now when it's convenient the league forums decide something is broken. LOL.