I'm surprised that no one is complaining about Sejuani/Maokai yet

Fisher No Chains·Jul 19, 2017·1 votes·518 views

Well I don't think they're broken op, I'm not saying this, but I was just comparing their stats with Zac's and... Well, they're not weak at all.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/sejuani/platinum Sej is sitting at a ~53% winrate with a ~6% playrate. http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/maokai/platinum Mao is sitting at a ~54% winrate with a ~5% playrate.

All I wanted to say is: even if they nerf Zac, something else will take his place. People don't realize yet how strong those tanks are after the rework. Maybe too much tbh.

24 Comments

KloqdqJul 19, 20171 votes

They both outshined Zac when they were released with him. They have since seen multiple nerfs to everything. I'd say they are both strong and maybe stronger than Zac to be completely fair.

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

I honestly think that Sej is still stupid af. Her whole "I'll engage and take zero damage for 3 seconds" concept makes her so god damn strong that I don't know how people complained about her being weak post-nerfs.

As for Mao, he was only good as a crappy AP support. Then his tank playstyle was buffed whereas his AP playstile was nerfed, and now he's everything but weak.

KloqdqJul 19, 20171 votes

Sej is in an odd place. Either she is really good or really shit right now. She has the most cancerous CC chain in the game with far to much built in burst. I think her Passive stat boost isn't the problem. It's the damage she can dish out with her CC chain.

The problem with Maokai now is he is just a better version of old Maokai. He is still a generalist tank (Now passing Naut again) that has great vision control and survivability. Nothing really god solved other than making his ult a lot better/worse based on the time.

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

Sej is just Zac 2.0, since if she wants she can slow/CC you for seconds while dealing stupid amounts of damage (20% max HP damage was good indeed).

Mao is... Well, more interactive than old Maokai imo. Old Maokai just pressed R and made his whole team tanky as fuck, and he was also safer in lane because he could just throw saplings and farm from distance. I don't think he's a generalist, he has a niche as an engage/disengage tank now, and at least he doesn't deal stupid amounts of damage too.

KloqdqJul 19, 20171 votes

True. The only good thing to come out of the tank update was Maokai. He is a lot more interesting to play now then before. Zac was a mess. Sej improved her and didn't make her just a sunfire cap but she needs more tuning. I like the idea of periods of tankiness but the damage sej does is the most cancerous thing about her when you also include her cc.

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

I think that Sejuani deals way more damage than Zac tbh, but the thing is that she's not as frustrating as Zac. Zac can miss his E and still use his stupid Q and deal damage through his "targeted" W (can't really call it a skillshot), and his damage has a way lower cooldown than Sej's.

For how many CCs they provide, their damage isn't reasonable at all.

KloqdqJul 19, 20171 votes

Yeah. Sej's damage all comes from her stupid "icebreaker" passive. That alone is why Sej can 100-0 people.

KaRniVooL13Jul 19, 20171 votes

i just want to interject on maokais damage... i still am relatively close in damage out put as others in most games but i play him ap bruiser and not ideally full tank.

but after the E nerfs that made him ap support cheeze i recorded my highest damage to champs ever as maokai with just over 80k damage in a game only to be out done by a ziggs

my previous record was 75k damage to champs.

i will link an image to show http://imgur.com/XKRlnUC

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

Well you sacrifice tankiness for damage, I guess it's ok to deal some damage. I don't expect him to deal 80k damage in a single game though, it's probably because he deals %MaxHP damage.

KaRniVooL13Jul 19, 20171 votes

that is only on E and if it hits a target

not reliable

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

Then I'm missing something because it's kinda weird that a tank that isn't Sejuani deals so much damage.

KaRniVooL13Jul 19, 20171 votes

well for one maokai has a really high base ad and high base as... getting iceborn the sheen procs on all abilities so you auto in between as combo ( think riven autoing between Qs) so every time you use an ability you do that ability damage to the target and then you proc sheen , auto do the bonus ad damage from sheen passive

also aoe damage from sunfire (this was before sunfire nerf) with item 3151 for magic pen... also the passive of landries for % hp damage applies on all of his abilities

then you add in the stacked ROA 100 ap + 80 ap + the magic pen and passive of landries, the aoe damage of sunfire. the enhanced autos with iceborn plus is high base damages and ap ratios on those. plus the fact that you have 40% cdr... tons of mana from roa/iceborn tons of armor iceborn/sunfire the healing from his passive + spirit visage which is compounded with catalyst passive on roa and the stacking of HP making his amount per heal high.

its a complex way to be tanky have tons of sustain for more tankyness while being able to apply damage due to being so hard to kill and having 40% cdr to spam all abilities

KloqdqJul 19, 20171 votes

it would cause a good amount of the damage though ^

I play a good amount of mao now and then and I can completely understand the damage.

KaRniVooL13Jul 19, 20171 votes

when it comes to Maokai his win rate/play rate vary by role

top he is 53.18% win rate with a 1.95% pick rate jungle he is 55.56% win rate with a 1.93% pick rate support he is 51.25% with a .75% pick rate according to patch 7.14 (only filtered plat + ) http://current.lolalytics.com/champion/Maokai/

Sejuani has a 53.19% win rate and a 4.80% pick rate jungle 49.21% win rate top with a 0.31% pick rate

(same site with same patch 7.14 plat + filtered )

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

Yup, Mao is in a more or less reasonable spot compared to Zac or Sej. He's doing good in all his roles but he's not seeing much play after the rework.

Sej will become the new Zac very soon instead.

KaRniVooL13Jul 19, 20171 votes

i personally have a 57% win rate on him as a maokai main this season... and with close to 700 games on him total since season 5 i have an over all win rate of right at 58%

i started with him top in season 5 and have worked him mid, jungle and support. cant figure out how to make adc maokai work though... his damage is lowered that is a fact... he is 4 cc abilities which is great for any team comp . i would agree however with the ult change there more of a clear picture of skilled maokai vs a non skilled then before.

this season i play him top,jng, support havent had a chance to play him mid yet.. might start doing it vs kat as i did before and wrecked.

one of the biggest things that is a lil unnoticed cuz it happen so long ago is the splash/impact damage on E when before you could use it to last hit and cs from range based on that impact damage... which made even bad lanes reasonable for him. now with that gone ( has been for a while) its clearly harder to lane vs bad match ups.

i have always played him as an ap bruiser type except support where i currently play him as a what i like to call " the shielding tree " item 3401 item 3190 item 3109 item 2045 that way i can legit tank/peel cc and engage for team while still protecting the carry i need to with the face/locekt and knights vow

AhristocatsJul 19, 20171 votes

zac is stupid af which is the reason he has such a high ban rate, his high ban rate deflate his win rate

also, maokai having a high win rate isn't an issue, he's easy af to play it's like sona janna and soraka having 53/54% win rate, doesn't mean they're broken

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

In fact I didn't say they're broken, I just said that Zac is not the only strong post-rework tank.

DrCyanideJul 19, 20171 votes

I think there's a lot to say about the frustration factor with Zac. He's able to engage from so many angles you can't ward against, then he's got a lot of CC that completely ruins your day (many people complaining about landing a skillshot on a minion then right clicking on you to bounce you back).

Not saying Sej or Mao aren't frustrating in their own right, but I think Zac's overall taking the spotlight because of how different his engage and CC is.

Fisher No ChainsJul 19, 20171 votes

Yep, Zac has a bit too much and his overall skill floor is kind of low, since his skillshots are really, really hard to dodge, except for his Q but he doesn't even to hit you to use it. Mao isn't as frustrating as the other two, but Sej isn't really nice to play against either.