Meanwhile in dota

AM6OZero·Apr 28, 2015·11 votes·1,380 views

http://www.dota2.com/684/

10+ people got an ags upgrade that actually adds mechanical gameplay to them

Still stuck with MLG flash + big plays in league of legends

29 Comments

SEKAIApr 28, 20156 votes

Yer but DotA is a game mostly about AAs, targeted spells, AoEs and RNGs fundamentally.

Both games have their ups and downs, assuming the balancing scene isn't a problem.

AM6OZeroApr 28, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Yer but DotA is a game mostly about AAs, targeted spells, AoEs and RNGs fundamentally.

Both games have their ups and downs, assuming the balancing scene isn't a problem.

you probably played 1 bot game of dota and decided it was not for you

blatant lies and misinformation

SEKAIApr 28, 20156 votes

{quoted}

you probably played 1 bot game of dota and decided it was not for you

blatant lies and misinformation

I didn't play DotA2, only played the original, unless it changed that much during the transition which I don't think it's the case. I couldn't play DotA2 because their optimisation just outright sucks, granted my computer is horse shat, but on the lowest settings possible my computer still couldn't handle the client homepage for whatever reason.

And the tutorial bugged out for me upon my re-visit after a few months, the map wouldn't load (or it did but the lighting didn't all I saw was dark trees everywhere). So I just up and said "fk it I am done".

I do acknowledge that DotA does have a lot going for it such as the glorious day-night cycle, the expansive item system (let's just forget the horrendous shop system for a sec), the carriers, all sorts of item and hero synergies and of course the massive individuality established between each heroes.

But when we do strip down the entire game into bare minimum, it really is all about AAs, targeted spells, AoEs and RNGs, for the most part.

And I am not saying it's a bad thing, it's just gameplay-wise, it has a different emphasis.

Also just as I said, LoL's balance really is a big problem by itself, they still have quite a few things to learn from DotA, and vice versa.

powerbatsApr 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

you probably played 1 bot game of dota and decided it was not for you

blatant lies and misinformation

Have you looked into a mirror lately because we could claim the same thing about your lies and misnformation concerning League. Besides which if you dislike League so much then why continue playing and complaining about it since the grass over in DOTA is obviously greener.

RenailleApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yer but DotA is a game mostly about AAs... and RNGs

Meanwhile 2-4 adcs are required every game and are core to strategy.

RatbertApr 28, 20154 votes

But dota2 also has no scalings, so aghs sort of counts as that. Dota also has more mechanics that league simply because some people find it more fun to be simple and many MANY people find it easier to play.

DreadlocksApr 28, 20151 votes

Dota has more mechanics? like what? I know they have shit like turn speed and what not but league has way more skill shots.

SLangedEdgeApr 28, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Dota has more mechanics? like what? I know they have shit like turn speed and what not but league has way more skill shots.

"Skill shots"; if you can spam the spell with no mana gate or cd gate, its not really a skill shot. There are plenty of skill shots in dota, AOE spells are still targeted; dota is mostly a positional game rather than yolo into the fight then flash out if u need to.

There are more than a few mechanically challenging heroes. would be annoying to list 'em all. For sure LoL has more skill shots, its jsut that if missing doesn't cost u the game, it doens't feel like a skill shot. And if u miss and causes u to be out of position with mobility creep ur more than capable to get out of harms way.

DreadlocksApr 28, 20151 votes

Idk i've played both.. dota 2 for a year and a half.. and i find both games equally challenging for their own reasons.

RatbertApr 28, 20153 votes

Like resource management. Courier, Denying creeps and champs, Secret+Side shops, elevation, runes (like pickups), different cast speeds, projectile speeds, damage types etc.

Skillshots are hardly mechanics.

DreadlocksApr 28, 20151 votes

pressing a button to retrieve a courier is?

RatbertApr 29, 20153 votes

If that's all you think you can do with a courier, I'm afraid you have much to learn.

DreadlocksApr 29, 20151 votes

no thats all u need to do to retrieve it which is exactly what you are saying. Sure you can bottle crow but thats not hard either..

RatbertApr 29, 20151 votes

Fine, lets pretend that's all you do. What about the rest?

The Aqua SnakeApr 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

no thats all u need to do to retrieve it which is exactly what you are saying. Sure you can bottle crow but thats not hard either..

The point is there are many more small things in Dota 2 compared to LoL that you have to know/practice in order to separate yourself from other players, Aka "Mechanics". Think of rules or methods that makeup the gameplay.

A Mechanic example from both games would be knowing the spawn timings from the neutral camps in the Jungle, or how to manipulate the minion/creep wave in lane.

Skillshots is a water droplet in a lake so to speak.

DreadlocksApr 29, 20151 votes

I guess i just never found those things difficult to learn.. I suppose some players could find the learning curve harder than LoL... idk.. i didnt.

CraykesApr 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Dota has more mechanics? like what? I know they have shit like turn speed and what not but league has way more skill shots.

For 1 last hitting is a lot more difficulty due to every single hero having a different aa animation. There is creep blocking, jungle camp stacking, and tower denies.

Also there are more items with more active effects. It is actually pretty common to be playing a hero with 4-6 items all having an active ability. Lets not forget that mana is an issue early game so 1 hero can not literally spam spells during the laning phase. There is more thinking involved when using your abilities.

Oh yea when you die you lose gold, and there is xp and gold rubber banding. So if your stupidly far ahead, and you make a couple of mistakes the enemy can actually catchup in gold, and xp.

Skillshots? Please that's hardly mechanics. Skill shots in league are easy to do anyway. If you think your so awesome with your "skillshot" mechanics go install Dota 2, and play pudge I bet you can't handle it.

Lets not forget Lone druid, meepo, and visage. These heroes have more than 1 hero to control. This adds alot of depth, and complexity to the game. What about naga siren, and terroblade? They can summon illusions that you can control as well.

What about invoker who has 14 abilities that he can use? 1 of those abilities spawn fire spirits which is again a unit that you have to micro. Lets also note that invoker would mostly have sheepstick, bkb, force staff, Euls, and shiva. Thats 5 items all with an active ability.

So mechanics please. Dota 2 has league beat by miles.

JustMyBassCannonApr 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

10+ people got an ags upgrade that actually adds mechanical gameplay to them

Meanwhile in League of Legends, we've had a recent meta shift, three new items, two large-scale reworks and three smaller reworks on champions, and while we're talking about League, what's wrong with Flash?

NilokApr 28, 20152 votes

To play devil's advocate, they did just add eight items to Dota 2 and adding AGS upgrades is like adding new abilities, and two of the Champions reworks for League of Legends were pretty bad.

JustMyBassCannonApr 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

To play devil's advocate,

Hello Satan's lawyer

they did just add eight items to Dota 2

Over what span of time, and how long has it been since they added new items?

and adding AGS upgrades is like adding new abilities,

Except it doesn't add entirely new abilities, just increases the effectiveness of specific ultimates, most commonly through damage/output increases. A few AGS upgrades do more unique things, but most of them are the DotA equivalent of buying a large chunk of AP.

and two of the Champions reworks for League of Legends were pretty bad.

The only bad thing about Veigar's rework is that his W is still unreliable as hell, but it's much harder to use it with his new E. Basically, he either needs a new W, or his current W should lose a bit of damage for the sake of being much more reliable.

And...which other rework was bad? Zilean, maybe? I mean, he lost the guaranteed Q bombs for a stun and a less oppressive lane phase. He can just lay mine fields like he's the forbidden love child of Ziggs and Teemo instead of getting a guaranteed pseudo-ult of damage.

NilokApr 29, 20151 votes

Zilean and Tristana.

The first hit a Champion that while annoying to play against with 'big plays', was a fairly balanced champion that simply made him frustrating to play, didn't give him enough compensation strengths, or address bigger problems in his kit like his nearly useless passive.

The second of which dropped Tristana from an decent but situational late game ADC, to the worst ADC in the game rocking a win rate lower than Bard's and the second lowest damage of all ADCs, and thats a feat for a Champion with a 110% attack speed steroid.

JustMyBassCannonApr 29, 20153 votes

Yes, they need to continue working on Zilean. They fixed one oppressive skill, and now the rest of his kit is actually showing how lackluster his kit is, particularly his weak passive.

Tristana...wasn't really situational. Ever. For her entire existence, she was a solid champion, almost always in the top 5 strongest Marksmen. While that's easy to claim during the original 40 that didn't have enough Marksmen to compete for a top 5, that kind of holding pattern for years despite changes and meta shifts is still quite an achievement.

Please note that I'm not saying that she was overpowered for years. But some recent changes--most importantly, the addition of Statikk Shiv--made her mid-game weakness period smaller and smaller, until she was oppressive in the laning phase with her spells, transitioned well to the team phase, and had a late-game that was ultra-safe with very high DPS.

Her rework nerfed her significantly, most likely too much, but (a) it was necessary and (b) Riot is quite literally never done tweaking champions.

NilokApr 29, 20151 votes

Tristana was nerfed after her 'overpowered days' before her remake which she had a 53% win rate, dropping it down to 48% and she became more balanced. The problem is Riot didn't build on that and instead botched a potentially good champion remake dropping her win rate down to 44%.

A large frustration from the people who like Tristana, not the people who only liked her as the hyper carry and switched to Jinx, is that the 'buffs' that Riot has been giving Tristana after the remake do nothing to address the problems with her and only add more complications to her kit that will make balancing her more problematic when they eventually begin address the core problems with the design.

I would recommend looking at Champion.gg and LeagueofGraphs.com. Both of which pull data from Riot's official APIs and show Tristana is basically crap at all points in the game right now for a Tower pushing gimmick that I honestly don't think she is the best at. The only thing Tristana is 'good' at, is running away.

Champion.gg will be fully updated to patch 5.8 in 3 days and have fresh data then.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tristana http://champion.gg/champion/Tristana/ADC

JustMyBassCannonApr 29, 20151 votes

Again, she needs more work. While I don't tolerate the poorly-made comparisons that others have made ("Tristana only does this while X has this!" X usually referring to Jinx), I will totally agree with you that they've messed up, and they're trying to use bandages on a broken bone.

The Aqua SnakeApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except it doesn't add entirely new abilities, just increases the effectiveness of specific ultimates, most commonly through damage/output increases. A few AGS upgrades do more unique things, but most of them are the DotA equivalent of buying a large chunk of AP.

It use to be how you described, but old Aghs upgrades has had new/unique additions added to them over the last few patches, and this latest patch added new Aghs upgrades for at least 15 heroes that didn't have them before which are not just a boost in damage.

Examples like Wraith King can resurrect his teammates for 5 seconds if they die around him, and they can cast their spells in this timeframe.

Nyx Assasin can burrow in the ground and has increased range on his abilities (Starcraft Lurker!).

Lifestealer can swallow a teammate in his belly and carry him around with him.

Alchemist can farm an Aghs and can give an ally a permament Aghs upgrade in which the Aghs is consumed.

That's some of the many mechanics that were added.

Also, the majority of the 8 new items are actives that completely change the game, and aren't just stat sticks.

One of them can reflect targeted spells back at you!

One item in particular is dubbed the League Of Legends item because it gives you 25% cooldown (First item ever to do this) and Offers Spell Lifesteal which is essentially SpellVamp.

It's damn near Dota 3 now!

JustMyBassCannonApr 30, 20153 votes

...And we're on League of Legends...6? Maybe 7, if you include Alpha/Beta.

Alpha/Beta, Release, Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, Season 4, and we are currently in the transition before Season 5.

And while it's cool to know DotA 2 found something more unique than just damage output upgrades for AGS--not that I didn't expect it to happen, they tend to like throwing new mechanics onto anything involving QWER or item slots--this doesn't answer the question I asked.