Maybe your thoughts will change as you actually play them. It's kinda how I felt about Illaoi.
Always hated the woman being a one-trick wonder withh her E and all. But then I actually gave her a shot. Holy shit, was I wrong. Felt as bad as Hashinshin's shins when he played Viktor for the first time.
ΛrπζrιΠ29 votesOP doesn't necessary means "easy to use". Ease of use is just one potential characteristic of an op character.
Nonetheless when i play sion, i put my brain off and auto my way to their nexus. I do the same with irelia and i'd feed horribly.
Genghis Khat16 votesI always get 50k mastery points on a champ before complaining they are op. for example yasuo, i said the guy requires 0 skill, got 80k on him and i was absolutely right, broken champ.
SunDragonz2 votes0 skill huh, idk
Genghis Khat14 votes0 skill huh, idk
same with zed and riven. Honestly 10 games in normals and you already can take em into ranked, they legit are not as hard as people say.
iDarkWind3 votesYes, that's why you have 0% win rate with Riven and Zed in ranked. In fact, you went 3/10 as Riven. Good job. Overall with your main you have a negative win ratio. But at the same time you're saying that you performed extremly well on those "easy champions" that you so called. Do you know what we call that? Bullshit.
Also, using normal games to indicate that they're easy to play and win games is a completly joke. Normal games match making is a mess.
Genghis Khat9 votesYes, that's why you have 0% win rate with Riven and Zed in ranked. In fact, you went 3/10 as Riven. Good job. Overall with your main you have a negative win ratio. But at the same time you're saying that you performed extremly well on those "easy champions" that you so called. Do you know what we call that? Bullshit.
Also, using normal games to indicate that they're easy to play and win games is a completly joke. Normal games match making is a mess.
first of all i transferred account from RU to EUNE to EUW stats dont carry over. secondly i have 1 game on each of them in ranked in EUW xd and i had a 60% winrate in 400 games with kat on eune. great research u did there too bad its all false. :) if u want i can show my mastery points on all of those "hard champs" and try to dig up my names in previous servers )
iDarkWind2 votesI couldn't care less about your situation actually. Those stats are from when you came to this server at least, and it doesn't change anything. Besides, no data will change your trash opinion into something good. Just because you're being upvoted by this trashboards community it won't change any of these facts.
And once again, showing me what exactly? Mastery points ? What a fking dumb argument, like the amount of mastery points will prove anything, besides as far as I understood you don't even play those champions in ranked but in normals, wich like I said can't be used as argument when the match making on normal games is a totally mess.
Glad that Riot doesn't give a single flying f about boards community.
Tomoe Gozen3 votesNot sure why the hostility all of a sudden. Mastery points matter because that means a player has invested a certain amount of time into playing a specific champ(s) for a longer period of time. It doesn't mean that it automatically makes them an expert in their balance, it just means that they know what they're talking about to some degree - even if it comes from a lot of personal experience.
Besides, you raised the question about the specific data and when you were told there's such data on the previous server, you're now admittingly dismissing it as if was never important to begin with. Why make such a weak and unsubstantiated argument if your goal was never to discuss anything but to force your opinion onto someone else?
You may have raised valid questions and points if you actually tried to communicate them better but it doesn't matter now because you've made yourself look like a complete tool instead. And trust me, i'm an expert in tools.
LordGeovanni1 votessaying normal matchmaking is a mess as if ranked isnt the same thing.
Tomoe Gozen3 votesOr it could be that you just respond better to the playstyles of mechanically intensive champions more than you do with simple ones? Given your name, you might also be a Kat main that knows when and where to capitalize on her dagger placements to deal the most damage and clear the field.
For someone who responds better to Sonas, Sions and Shyvanas... that's a completely different matter. That's called perception and it's subjective. I can think Riven's OP in the right hands but i can't for the life of me, stomach her platstyle at all. I wish she'd get a rework but she is, as much as Lee Sins of this world, impervious to any kind of changes due to her fanbase being an arson threat for League's servers.
When i look at Boxbox and Adrian play Riven, she looks overloaded. When i look at TFBlade play Irelia and Akali, they look broken. When i look at Bunnyfufu play Thresh, he looks broken. When i look at LL Stylish play Zed, he looks broken.
The thing is, these champs might have overloaded kits and easier playstyle past a certain skill ceiling but you can't say that only after watching these high ELO players. You knowing their limits doesn't suddenly make you that champion's expert all of a sudden. There has to be a certain experience behind it to back up your claim. Even Ryze is mechanically intense, despite us only seeing him in LCS and calling him broken because the mid laner playing him was preparing months beforehand for such a match.
Spicy Rice1 votesPlease then, link some of your gameplay of yasuo so we can see how easy he is for you to play.
Genghis Khat2 votes[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BYUyw0Yl,comment-id=000e0001,timestamp=2018-12-16T20:00:02.444+0000)
Please then, link some of your gameplay of yasuo so we can see how easy he is for you to play.
yes let me go back in time and record how i played him a long time ago. brb.
Spicy Rice2 votesor just play him a few times and link the footage.
Even if you haven't played him in a while, if hes easy, it shouldn't be hard to do well
Śhunpo12 votesI have and my opinion does't change. Irelia is broken. Akali is broken. Lucian is broken atm. Aatrox is beyond busted.
There, happy?
haaaaaaalp8 votesThe forums are well beyond that step. It takes a lot to get someone to put down the game and stop everything else they are doing to log into the forums and complain about a certain champion. There are 140 champions in the game and only a handful get regular complaints here. That says more about the champions than anything else.
Cats Are Food1 votesThis.
ModCaptainMårvelous7 votesAh yes, The Shaco Effect. Pioneered in Season 1, still common to this day.
1.) Player gets stomped by a Shaco player 2.) LOL WTF SHACO IS SO FUCKING BUSTED 3.) Buy shaco, copy build from last game on a notepad, get some skins too 4.) Proceed to feed off their ass. 5.) ZZZZZZZZZZZ SHACO FUCKING GARBAGE CHAMP ZERO GOOD THINGS 6.) Forget they have shaco until they get stomped by another shaco.
Cats Are Food1 votesEXACTLY
Tomoe Gozen1 votesThe X champion fallacy effect.
Bent Pixels6 votesThis was quite EXACTLY what happened to me with Vayne
The entire team2 votes[{quoted}](name=Bent Pixels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BYUyw0Yl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-16T03:06:43.845+0000)
This was quite EXACTLY what happened to me with Vayne
Yikes. How did that go?
Bent Pixels9 votesExtremely bad lmao. I always talk shit to Vayne players because I imagine she's super easy if you're just right clicking and Qing, but she's honestly super difficult. I did awful lol
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bent Pixels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BYUyw0Yl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-16T03:06:43.845+0000)
This was quite EXACTLY what happened to me with Vayne
I used to think Vayne was OP back when I was new to the game.
Now, I'm like...
Eh I play her because I enjoy her.
I am bIack6 votesI just had the worst experience vs an akali. I get that its a skill thing, but my god is it cancer dealing with players who otp this champion (and higher elo ofc). I went warwick top, and then there was an akali. And I go, "oh this can't be too bad, just afk when she uses shroud and fight, right?" But no, it went nothing like that. She constantly cucked me with q and phase rush proc, even under tower. everytime r was up, insta death. i wasn't even safe under my own tower.
It was literally the WORST thing ever.
I didn't even know what to do at that rate, even MR did absolutely nothing.
Really my only complaint towards that champion is just how unfair and completely unfun it is to play vs her W. It was just pure, raw, unforgiving cancer.
Rhai1 votesRight, Skill thing. Funny how her banrate increases with rank then, as you'd think the pros would be good enough to deal with her. I personally believe her to be broken, especially after playing her myself for a few games.
Irelia Bot6 votesTrynda RNG crit at level 2 leading to a double crit is still bullshit.
Saevum1 votesAlso Tryndamere's R gives instant half fury bar if it was at 0. That's something that i would hit first in any case.
Slythion4 votesThis is what I did with Fiora
Although sometimes it doesn't change my opinion, then I feel bad for abusing a champ
No Chat System4 votesIf only they had a rent option for all champions!
Woodakoodashooda3 votesNo.
Know why?
Because a player who has no experience on a champion who then plays that champion isn't suddenly going to be enlightened as to what it is that makes the champion so oppressive or overpowered or annoying.
When I mid, I ban Kassadin. I suck at the champion, but I know that if he's able to reach 16, a good Kass cannot be stopped.
When I top, I ban Heimerdinger. Not because he's overpowered, but because I generally play melee champions top lane and I hate facing that asshole as a melee champion.
When I ADC, I ban Rengar or Shaco because there is no peeling a stealthed champion off ADC.
When I jungle, I ban Kindred, because I do not like playing the counter-counter jungle game with her.
I hate all of these champions respectively. I am not skilled at them, but that doesn't make them any less annoying for me.
So yes, I will complain freely, as is my right, about champions that add frustration to my gaming experience.
Rathar Dashing1 votesThat's not the point of the post. Playing a champion for yourself can help you learn their weaknesses, their shortcomings, and how to exploit both of those as the enemy. When you learn what your enemy wants to do, then it becomes easier to fight them.
You're still entitled to your ban if you feel there's no way you can exploit a champs weaknesses after experiencing them firsthand, or if you simply don't enjoy playing against them. The post wasn't about who you ban, it's about who you complain about being overpowered. You admit yourself that Heimy isn't OP, he's just not fun to play against for you, and that's fine.
Summonah123692 votesWhen I tried Nidalee for the 1st time I sucked ass and barely landed any spears, her kit felt so big and confusing and I didn't understand any of her combos. Now I main her with over 200k points, lol.
Haze972 votesTried this with Darius. Incredibly difficult to pull off kill steaks early on with this guy but three games in and I was internally cursing Riot on how they could allow this guy to even exist.
He is far more complex to play then let's say Garen or Sion, but the moment you learn to stack haemorrhage with his Q you realize why Darius gets banned do much. Killed an Urgot with him early game yesterday and can confidently say this guy is a huge pile of aids.
On a side note Jax top lane takes a heck lot of skill to play, that early game especially. Literally every top lane matchup is a skill matchup for Jax and you get butchered if you don't readily keep an eye on your ability and retreat when the time's right. The people who call him brain dead should try playing him in a role other than Jungle before they decide.
King Lego2 votesI once played Akali with demolish along with the build Warmong's Armor, Spirit Visage, Hextech Gunblade and a sheen (building it to Lich Bane).
Let's just say it didn't matter if I had a bad KDA, but using W under turret didn't force me to wait for minions and attack the turrets and split push.
That was before the turret plating though. I don't know if it's effective still.
Still think her true stealth shroud is a very toxic mechanic. [zombie-brand-clap]
Ionian Vulpix2 votesI have. Never thought Pyke was easy or braindead. I do think he's OP.
OHminus2 votesOP =/= not fun to play against.
I know Akali isn't OP (actually dogshit atm), but her shroud makes me want to tear my hair out. Which is why I'm mad they're buffing her shroud next patch instead of buffing other areas, like base stats, ult cd, etc...
Eightprism2 votesI've tried them. I am too terrible at them repeatedly to have that sway me at all, let alone give me much insight. Also would always ban Akali in any top or mid situation.
In terms of potential and annoyance Zoe, yas, Irelia are who I would really ban. But Akali gets the ban, because with the others, no matter how badly I get outplayed or bs'd, at least I could see and target them while it happened.
Shablagoo2 votesI did and my final thought, Jax is op.
wolf jade1 votesHere 2. With illaoi i was sure she is so strong and i played her/againt her and she is so easy to counter i always win lane againtillaois right now when before i was justso sad and just wanted to ff when i faced an illaoi. But ita not the same for akali. Her w has no counter and so many dashes. Ext...
Rathar Dashing1 votesI tried this with Graves when I was forced to jungle for my team. I was barely trying, and even though I solo'd rift herald I actually forgot to pick it up, but I managed to do extremely well. That's how I know Graves is OP (or was when I played him, I think he & a couple runes I used on him got nerfed since then).
Cats Are Food1 votesNeeko is still broken. Made a post about it after trying her. :p
Also the Akali shroud is too easy to abuse.
So...
Granted, I also upvoted your post because you're right. Most people get dominated by something and run straight to the boards.
DarkSoul19941 votesIs this directed at the guy who came on here earlier complaining about Master Yi?
Saevum1 votesWhat about 
buff before he even gets the buff and hits live? can't we measure that before it happens?
Mc Raton1 votesAkali. Tried Her first time in ranked and dominated. Her W is the problem.
jocomotion1 votesSo if I play the champion/have played the champion I still have the right to complain right? Because if so I have a legit problem with 
.
The E771 votesan op champion doesn't need to be easy to use, an op champion is someone that either completely in invalidates any champion in a role, or someone that you are FORCED to do a certain thing that is sub optimal otherwise you get steamrolled, irelia is a high skill cap champion and people who pick her up for the first time will feed their ass off, but if you go irelia mid and you know how to play her, there is basically nothing the enemy can do or pick other than aftershock lissandra that rushes zonyas and even then she might just 1 shot you, play akali toplane for the first time and you have no idea what your doing, a maokie will fist you to 0 / 10, but play akali top when you are mastery 7 with her and only the hardest of hard counters will actually have any hope of not just insta dying to you after lvl 3, why do you think azir and ryze were PERMA banned in high elo before? their arguably the hardest champions to learn and play, but we saw time and time again, if you go up vs someone that DOES know how to play them, it completely invalidates anything you do.
LordGeovanni1 votesyou not being good at a champ doesnt make it not op.
ModCaliCoastReplay1 votes
is really good! But she's definitely not easy. You have to do a super duper lot of positional play and manage your tentacles and your W-directs well. I have my M6 with her, and I feel like she's a broken stat check in the right hands, but it's worth noting that I don't take her into Ranked a lot and she is rarely seen in LCS either - for the simple reason that if she misses her Q and E often, which it's easy to make her do, her teamfight effectiveness goes down drastically.
I find her best at winning juggernaut matchups - I can't think of many other juggernauts that counter her, maybe 
because of the healing, or because he can stack Q off her tentacles. Her core competency is punishing other all-in juggernauts like 
and divers like 
who depend on getting in your face with tentacles and her ultimate.
I also agree with the original post itself. I used to think 
was uncounterable and unhealthy, but it turns out I simply wasn't playing any of his better counters. I picked up and learned 
and now he's not that scary - I have a wonderful highlight of parrying a Steel Tempest right into a kill.
I would urge other players who see any single champion as cancerous to both try the champions they fear, and to broaden their champion bases. It really does provide a lot of insight into what's actually unhealthy for the game, and what just feels bad to play against if you don't know the proper strategies.
OneMustFall1 votesThe only problem with this line of thinking is that I generally don't want to play a champion I feel is busted or have a playstyle I really dislike. However I don't use my own personal experiences to just claim a champion is broken either. If a champion has a poor win rate in general, I know it's probably something I'm doing wrong or it's just a really bad matchup. But if a champion constantly proves to be oppressive, whether they're on the enemy team or my own, you have to call it what it is. Doesn't mean I want to play them to prove that.
l love Ahri1 votesAgree.
Though I play Akali, I still feel like she's busted as hell