button button button, nuke
Yea, you heard me, no kiting, no trying to hit very delayed skills that have obvious animations, no waiting for teammates.
Just button button button nuke.
They don't even work for it, atleast make resistances do something so they have to poke first, or something.
Anatera6 votesYou think? You mean they ARE uninteractive. Your only options against an assassin tunneling you is:
Run away and try to kite, even though they definitely will catch up to you with ghostblade OR
Zhonyas, then run away and try to kite, because Zhonyas doesn't stop burst when it's on cooldown. Wow, so interactive.
Good luck trying to fight toe to toe with an assassin, because apparently they need to beat you in that too, not just in burst damage.
iDarkWind1 votesLmao? If you're a squishy character obviously you can't fight an assassin - surprise surprise, it's their fucking purpose to nuke squishy characters. Imagine a class of champions being good in doing what they were supposed to do, insane!
OniichanImComing1 votesLmao? If you're a squishy character obviously you can't fight an assassin - surprise surprise, it's their fucking purpose to nuke squishy characters. Imagine a class of champions being good in doing what they were supposed to do, insane!
Not to mention that they have a hard time doing their job if a squishy target gets 
or 
GigglesO1 votesIf only tanks were allowed to do their job and be tanky. If only supports were allowed to do their job and peel the assassin/prevent assassin kills.
HMMMMMM
OniichanImComing1 votesIf only tanks were allowed to do their job and be tanky. If only supports were allowed to do their job and peel the assassin/prevent assassin kills.
HMMMMMM
I don't understand. Tanks are tanky unless the tank is 1v5 or facing constant damage Darius and Trynd. Assassins cant kill a full tank like Maokai and Shen. They just can't. Tanks deal damage too
Support can help against an assassin. Thresh lantern, Morg/Lux root, Alistar headbutt...etc so I don't see why you say supports can't help. Busy saving others? Or just bad
iDarkWind1 votesAs if they fucking aren't. Why are you acting like you're playing other game? In previous seasons assassins were way more stronger and Tanks and especially supports didn't had so many tools to stop them. Open your fucking eyes because so far your bias is making you blind or you simply suck.
Dorans Pants2 votesthey were stronger, but games also went longer and assassins didn´t scale well which meant you could play like a bitch and wait till they fell into irrelevancy.
not so much today, when games are so short and dmg is so prevalent that hardly anyone falls off anymore.
GigglesO1 votesSomeone wasn't here when soraka had 300 heals with a 90% ap ratio, that also gave an armor buff, and it didn't cost her health. It only cost her mana, which she could give herself...
There is that whole season 1 heal meta we don't talk about.
The is the season 2-3 Build defense on rammus/galio/mundo/shen and walk into the enemy team 1v5 and live for 20s meta that we don't talk about. The one where you would bait enemies into blowing everything on you just to have your team walk in and wipe the enemy.
We also don't talk about how assassins weren't as good at nuking because lethality aka flat pen wasn't as strong.
One of the biggest ones, is that we don't talk about how defense items used to be ok without having to stack 5 of the same type of resistance/hp items. Assassins/ADC's/Mages would often pick up 1-2 full tank items which also lead to lower overall game damage. 1 tank item used to mean the difference between life and death. Now it just means the difference of .5-1 seconds.
Syrile6 votesAssassin mains want you to believe they require skill so they can tell you how awesome they are when they get 20 kills in a game by pressing two buttons.
Example:
Talon. Starts off the lane, gets level 2 (especially if you are still level one) by hard-pushing with W. Immediately raises Q, flashes to you, ignite, auto-Q-auto, doing this immediately after just barely nicking you with the "skill shot" of W that is impossible to miss. Many times he can kill you without even landing a whole combo. Such as if you flash away when he flashes, he can Q to you and still kill you many times. Definitely if you are still level 1.
Very, very few champions can live through this all-in and certainly no squishy targets.
So... you say there is counter-play to this? Just stay back and do not let him eh? Well.. problem is, he then controls the wave. Easily zoning you back from experience and CS as the wave starts towards you, he lands W on you at will. When you are equal level to him, he is now up in health. If you push out at all, he kills you on the spot.
And so, say you are playing a mage against him... he has the highest MR of anyone in the game, added on his defense rune of MR, making him take significantly less damage from you, while having all-in potential at level 2 (sometimes even level one if you mess up), taking less poke damage than you take from his W and he has total control over the way the game is played.
Now... you may try to say a mage has range... But I already pointed out the difference in MR but to further drive this home, almost all mages armor is really low at base. Add to that the armor rune for defense is 2 points lower than the MR rune.
So, not only is he tougher than you, has better poke than you, but he even has more sustain (higher base health regen). In fact, his typical starting item of a long sword give him an advantage in getting his required items earlier.
But let us really break this down. Say you actually turtle, giving up experience and gold to a talon player (which is what he needs, to be ahead). He then finishes his tiamat and mobility boots (because he is too powerful to really care about needing real boots)... And guess what happens? Your teammates become the gold source for him.
Especially once he gets Duskblade and vision is literally meaningless at that point.
The entire game becomes an attempt to not feed this person that can easily all-in kill almost anyone in the game with almost no skill required.
My very first game playing this fellow I got first blood in the game by just doing the above combo. I then killed the enemy laner almost immediately when they returned to the game and then killed the JG that showed up right with them. The game was over at that point.
His snowball is such that you lose once he is ahead, even with inexperience. Becoming invisible, diving over walls with nigh-infinite dashes and automatically deleting almost any target gives no chance for interaction. Which is, fundamentally, the core of almost every assassin. Half the AP assassins are actually somewhat interactive. Fizz, Ekko, etc all have pretty clear times to punish. Akali? Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (just watch any pro game or high elo player) LeBlanc? Ummm...?? Talon? Millions of dashes, invisibility, tons of movement and insta-burst damage... Qiyana? Ranged CC, dashes, AoE Stuns and knockbacks... Yep.. Interactive... -- Ahri? Hahahahahahaha.... Has three dashes, plus flash, ranged CC, true damage, AoE wave clear, healing.. Probably the single safest champion ever built with tons of damage and, as mentioned, CC???? Katarina? Yeah.. Super interactive there. Dash, kill, dash, kill, dash, AoE kill team, dash.... Pyke? Need I say more? The most uninteractive champion ever, including Yuumi Kayn? I mean... he walks through walls and literally becomes untargetable to kill someone from the inside... Also has multiple CCs and healing.... -- And I can continue...
I have made posts about this before but the usual assassin mains and Riot White-Knights will come swooping in from the heavens to tell you that they are high-skilled champions with impossible mechanics... Except you can pick them up in a handful of games (with like two-three exceptions).
GigglesO1 votesI swear talon used to have a shorter range on his rake.
Honestly that was some of the counterplay to assassins, low range... Now that alot of them have been reworked, and have longer ranges (see leblank revert complaints about longer tether range) they have even less counterplay.
Syrile1 votesI swear talon used to have a shorter range on his rake.
Honestly that was some of the counterplay to assassins, low range... Now that alot of them have been reworked, and have longer ranges (see leblank revert complaints about longer tether range) they have even less counterplay.
Yeah... it feels like it. I think that is more that Riot's game is broken in general. Too many skill shots "hit" when they very clearly miss.
Talon is by far the most broken champion for how easy he is to play and offers absolutely no counter-play against a decent player of equal skill unless your team is coordinated, like pro games.
At Master+ his ban/pick/win rate is still absurd so the whole whining about "high elo can out play him" is a lie.
preternatural1 votesI swear talon used to have a shorter range on his rake.
Honestly that was some of the counterplay to assassins, low range... Now that alot of them have been reworked, and have longer ranges (see leblank revert complaints about longer tether range) they have even less counterplay.
it floats a little further out from it's throw distance like an ekko q. working as intended. stop getting hit.
iDarkWind5 votes[deleted]
GigglesO1 votesUmm, Thats kinda what the game has devolved into.
People have been complaining that adc's and tanks are uninteractive since season 1. Mages only spam abilites because of cdr creep. Bruisers only started one shotting because they had to compete with assassins. Assassins are the drivers of this damage meta though. For everyone else to be toned down assassins need to go first.
OniichanImComing1 votesUmm, Thats kinda what the game has devolved into.
People have been complaining that adc's and tanks are uninteractive since season 1. Mages only spam abilites because of cdr creep. Bruisers only started one shotting because they had to compete with assassins. Assassins are the drivers of this damage meta though. For everyone else to be toned down assassins need to go first.
Not just assassins. Mages CDR too. They both need to go at the same time if we want interactive gameplay
ADC will never be interactive until they start being like Dota2. Dota 2 have turn rates so ranged can't always kite
Bruisers don't one shot. They are powerful but not one shot kill in 1s. They have damage but also have HP and resistance. This is obviously because of the items.
iDarkWind1 votesLmao, that's not true what a fucking joke you just said LOOOOL
People complained about Tanks because during the S5 they would build 
and run squishy champions down, because they would outdamage them with tanky items
People are complaining about Bruisers because in the old days the standart build for a Bruiser would be something like 
/ 
and after that would build full tank items. Nowdays, bruisers can go for those same items, but in their last slots they end up building 
- Do you see the difference? Those items, they all give huge amounts of AD while giving passives that make bruisers as durable if not even tankier than a normal tank.
Mages on other hand since the introduction of 
they never ran out of mana ever again. They nowdays can poke you while also clearing the wave with ease. Also, back in the days mages would never had acess to such big values of flat magic pen, wich blows squishys.
ADCs were complained because back in the days infinity edge would make crit do 2.5x damage. With supports being so strong with the addition of the bonus to increase the heal and shield power, the powercreep from bot lane got ridiculous high, to the point that in S6, the "Ardent Censor" meta was all about who had the best bot lane to carry the game 2vs8. Even assassins could not stop them.
You blaming assassins on all of this is not stupid - it's r%%%%%ed. Your argument could ever make sense if assassins used the itemazation of other classes, but they don't - they monstly build lethality and last whisper. Black Cleaver is also built because of the acess to 20% CDR. The only time in the last years that assassins were strong was when lethality items offered bigger values - when they got introduced - and it wasn't only the assassins, but overall AD casters were strong, but it did only last one or two patchs if I remenber correctly. The only season assassins were meta was actually during S3 or S4 - assassins such as Zed and Talon were played on competitive. A lot of people here that defend mages like to say that the old league in S3 or S4 was the best meta - Ironicly it was the assassins meta.
Dorans Pants4 votesHigh burst + huge engage- and escape potential through mobility is just a terrible combination that will never feel fair even with balanced numbers. Sure a lot of classes can feel shit to play and roll you over when fed enough, but no other class removes your ability to impact the game like assassins do.
as an example, If I go to ward an objective and encounter a fed tank, mage, adc, there is a fair chance that I can still do my job and retreat, whereas and assassin will just pop ghostblade jump over two or three walls and kill me on sight.
unlike fed tanks and low mobility dps classes which become "unstoppable" numbers-wise but still play the same game assassin warp the whole game around them with a slight lead and force you to play by a completely different ruleset.
ironically assassins, designed to pick out high priority targets, are impossible to pick out when they become high priority targets themselves. If a Xerath is insanely fed then I can at least land a good bard R and try to capitalize on his squishyness and low mobility, while your average assassin will be left unphased by such an engage with dashes and blinks and invisibility ensuring that the assassin will always get away.
ofc the answer is to not engage like that, but this is the root of the problem. Every class and every champ forces the opponent to adapt and play a bit differently but no other class forces you to change your playstyle on so many levels of play from macro-play to positioning, focus in teamfights, vision control and access etc.
And then assassin players turn around and wonder why low+mid-elo players who still have to figure their gameplay and role in the game out, have so much trouble with adapting to playing against assassins.
GigglesO1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BQIZwYHe,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-09-05T17:20:50.011+0000)
And then assassin players turn around and wonder why low+mid-elo players who still have to figure their gameplay and role in the game out, have so much trouble with adapting to playing against assassins.
"Adapting to play against assassins"
You mean stay out of range like a little bitch, and then make sure you cc them the second they get in range of anything at all?
How interactive.
iDarkWind1 votesNah that isn't the only counter, but it is one of them. Counterplay that costs 0 Gold and only needs the usage of brain - monstly the reason assassins are not as strong in competitive.
Moody P1 votesbecause most assassins even with a lead collapse hard in grouping stages, most notably when the front line comes online and can lock them down long enough to kill them
no other class forces you to change your play style
this is just completely wrong, lol, every champion when fed warps game around them
FrancisMuni4 votesWhat are you talking about? They are fine. There is no way that champion that can deplete 60% of your health bar in one rotation at level 3 is overpowered. And the fact that they can outright kill you instanly after the first back is also completely fine. Not to mention the completely healthy and interactive way they dodge any single skillshot with the press of a button, jump at you from more than 1000 units away, rely on either point-&-clicks or extremely easy skillshots (that become EVEN easier because their mobility lets them shot at point blank) to do their damage, or the fact that they have enough mobility to go back to the starting point instantly once you are dead so not even your allies can catch them after.
Real talking, the existence of assasins alone is stupid. They are made to jump at someone, kill him and escape safely. Its the most toxic playstyle of the game by far as it doesn't need any kind of teamplay (how many times have you seen a Zed demanding a 1 v 1?), it encourages egotistic behaviors and it's autistic by definition.
At least a bruiser like 
, 
or 
has to set up kills with his team, often sacrificing themselves in the process so their team wins the teamfight. As autistic as duelists and juggernauts can be, they also have to coordinate with their team to split while his team puts pressure elsewhere. But assasins don't give a f*ck. They only want to play the dumbed down version of Patapon they call playstyle, in which they push 3 buttons in row and win by default (often they don't even have to be in the right order); because in real life they are bullied insecure 12 years olds who spend their time listening to Linkin park and Pumped Out Kicks while they whine of how awful and unfair the world is of them. Edgy even in real life.
OniichanImComing1 votesWhat are you talking about? They are fine. There is no way that champion that can deplete 60% of your health bar in one rotation at level 3 is overpowered. And the fact that they can outright kill you instanly after the first back is also completely fine. Not to mention the completely healthy and interactive way they dodge any single skillshot with the press of a button, jump at you from more than 1000 units away, rely on either point-&-clicks or extremely easy skillshots (that become EVEN easier because their mobility lets them shot at point blank) to do their damage, or the fact that they have enough mobility to go back to the starting point instantly once you are dead so not even your allies can catch them after.
Real talking, the existence of assasins alone is stupid. They are made to jump at someone, kill him and escape safely. Its the most toxic playstyle of the game by far as it doesn't need any kind of teamplay (how many times have you seen a Zed demanding a 1 v 1?), it encourages egotistic behaviors and it's autistic by definition.
At least a bruiser like
What assassin are you even talking about? Which one??? God this thread is confusing me. You're talking like all assassins do the same. Like... Zed and Rengar is different and not same at all
I'm an assassin main myself. Mages are superior but why does no one realize this. Mages are more useful and will always be. We play assassins because it's fun. That's it. Mages are superior in every way other than assassinating squishy target but they don't need to because people nowadays build zhonya and GA
FrancisMuni1 votesWhat assassin are you even talking about? Which one??? God this thread is confusing me. You're talking like all assassins do the same. Like... Zed and Rengar is different and not same at all
I'm an assassin main myself. Mages are superior but why does no one realize this. Mages are more useful and will always be. We play assassins because it's fun. That's it. Mages are superior in every way other than assassinating squishy target but they don't need to because people nowadays build zhonya and GA
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
,
, 
, 
. Its easier to name the assasins that are fine than the ones that are a cancer. Sure, there is also cancer mages like 
or
, but they aren't the overwhelming mayority.
OniichanImComing1 votes
Uh? I said mages are superior, not cancerous. Literally any mages
Mages provide so much for the team. Their kits either have area damage such as Anivia R, Annie R, Karma Q or CC such as Karma, Annie, Anivia, Morgana, or something that can turn team fights into your favour such as Orianna R, Azir R, Brand R
Assassins are mostly there to assassinate squishies. Assassins have an easy time killing a mage that does not build Zhonyas, and an ADC that does not build GA and have bad support
Katarina and Akali is an assassin but they aren't even good. Katarina gets countered by CC, and Akali got nerfed into oblivion by pro play. IMO the only good thing about them is the fact they can build Zhonyas which is obviously cancer when I'm playing Zed
Pyke, Zoe, and Ahri are the only cancer assassins. Pyke can get damaged to low health, press W and then have full HP again. Zoe is simply cancer, she has CC and can one shot you from far away. Ahri is cancer because how useful her kit is: she has good CC, has total safety (3 dash lmao), and can just poke with Q
The rest aren't that good. There is Evelynn but that's just because Riot is stupid and they are still buffing her
Dorans Pants1 votesUh? I said mages are superior, not cancerous. Literally any mages
Mages provide so much for the team. Their kits either have area damage such as Anivia R, Annie R, Karma Q or CC such as Karma, Annie, Anivia, Morgana, or something that can turn team fights into your favour such as Orianna R, Azir R, Brand R
cough cough 
preternatural1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BQIZwYHe,comment-id=000c0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-06T13:49:19.209+0000)
cough cough
but all the mentioned champs execute way easier than qiyana and dont have to meet special conditions to do dmg aside from anivia maybe but that would only be pre-6.
Soul Dealer3 votesSome are uniteractive (kha zix, leblanc, and Ekko for example), while others have clear windows to play against them and ways to play around them once you learn how they work (zed, talon, and rengar are the best examples for me).
musixxal2 votesassassins by default are the most interactive champs in the game lol.
OniichanImComing2 votesThis is such a dumb logic. If we use your logic then all champions are uninteractive
What the fuck do you mean by uninteractive anyway?
Mages in lane just poke poke poke. Get too close, you get the CC and hp gone. Repeat
Tanks like Maokai do nothing in lane and just farm under tower because he cant compete with you. You do nothing but farm
Please elaborate. All champions are uninteractive. Button button button kill. Same thing
GigglesO2 votesThats the thing. The game didn't used to be this way. We had a better balance between damage and defense. You had to poke and trade to get people lower, and then you could just finish them off. Kills could take 2 minutes of setup time in league, and now they take 10s at best?
OniichanImComing1 votesThats the thing. The game didn't used to be this way. We had a better balance between damage and defense. You had to poke and trade to get people lower, and then you could just finish them off. Kills could take 2 minutes of setup time in league, and now they take 10s at best?
That's just you?
Tell me your troubles man. Just what problem do you have with assassins and which assassin? I'll actually try to help, since I'm an assassin main myself.
Because from my view, mages are uninteractive. They do nothing but poke you whenever they can. It's annoying. Obviously the only thing I can do is burst you down with ALL of my abilities.
And later on, mages are superior to assassins (unless the assassin is fed by you or your team) because a mage can clear wave with 1 or 2 ability. Assassins have inferior waveclear and they have to spend money on Tiamat if they want to have a waveclear like a mage. Mages can also attack from far away and assassins have to go ALL in.
Mages also have seeker's armguard which is very good against AD assassins which builds into literally the best item in the game: Zhonyas. A single press of zhonya nullifies burst of Zed, Talon, Rengar
Titanium702 votesThe thing is... playing said assassins you're forcing the mages to play exactly this way since there is NO OTHER.
They can't possibly try to fight you in any way shape or form. Your entire KIT is designed to destroy them on sight!
Play a round of Mage VS Mage and see the difference! Active trading, back and forth gameplay with a metric ton of skill expression in both dodging and hitting your stuff, in managing your CDs and the Minion-Aggro!
Back to Mage VS Assassin.... Stay out of range lasthit, Wait... and wait... and wait... until finally the assassin screws up and gives you an opening. As the Mage you're simply not allowed to do ANYTHING usefull.... the second you use your CC spell the assassin can simply avoid it with his mobility and all in you. The second you gain actual kill pressure by poking him down he can easily avoid it with his mobility... If you try to roam you're already dead since the assassin will simply flash into your face the second you leave the savety of your turret!
Playing VS an Assassin is a boring shitfest! Every. Single. Time. There is ZERO fun playing this matchup! You do nothing and wait for late praying you Bot doesn't screw this up for you. Praying because actually helping them is out of question if the Assassin has at least 2 working braincells!
IMO the fun of games is indirectly proportional to the number of assassins picked. The more you have the more it becomes a meaningless clownfiesta.
The less you have the more interesting games become! They tend to be closer and longer than the ones with assassins. Those are games where actual MAKRO matters, where actual teamcomps matter and a synergy between the players can make the difference!
Have a single Assassin and game becomes: Start Fight: Assassin jumps in and Kills ADC = Win. Assassin jumps in and dies = Loose. Very fun - much interesting for everyone involved...
WoonStruck2 votesI think the game overall is uninteractive now, so i stopped playing.
The majority of the game play is staying out of range, not dodging.
Other than that its facerolling over people if you have a lead.
musixxal2 votesso many bad players itt
hhaavviikk1 votessounds like late game ADC's, right click > wait 1-2 second(s) enemy dead
as uninteractive assassin's are they need to be because of how uninteractive ADC's are
mack91121 votesAll have clear opportunities for counterplay that is how this game works.
Every champion has situations that need to be played In a particular way to be successful while you as the opponent have clear opportunities to outplay those scenarios.
Diävolo1 votesI mean yes, assassins are strong for mages. BUT not for adcs anymore. Adcs are just in another level that only Qiyana and Akali can kill them
Razelth1 votesLmao I thought you were talking about mages until I read the title.
OniichanImComing1 votesLmao I thought you were talking about mages until I read the title.
Poke poke poke, get too close and get CC'd and say goodbye to half of your hp bar loool
GigglesO1 votesThey were changed to be competitive with assassins, they may as well be less mobile assassins.
musixxal1 votesonly assassin players know how to beat assassins. btw, best player in teh game. burst onto teh scene playing assassins. yolo
Who Fed Ru1 voteslol
TehRamboCow1 votesIf by assassin you mean: Jax and Renekton, then yes. No skill required 1 shots. Don’t worry about positioning either cause you’re tanky and mobile. God bless.