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A change to Shaco's boxes which i think nobody could complain about. (read)

Shac Norris··3 votes·1,168 views

Here's a change i had in mind for Shaco's W.

Shaco now has a box limit/their duration is reduced (or both), but he gets reduced cooldown on them.

This is a simple change, yet i think it would help make AP Shaco more healthy, while not hurting jungle Shaco. Let me explain. AP Shaco is all about play making and setting up boxes in potential teamfight zones, yet his boxes have a 15s cooldown, which makes him unable to keep up with the enemy team, you literally have to wait somewhere for only a minute in order to set up a trap, (which can be nullified simply by having an enemy use a trinket, just not walking into them by chance or even seeing him place them if it's warded) I don't think that Shaco should have to waste minutes of csing just to make a trap for the enemies which have a really high chance of failing.

That's why i came up with this idea. You reduce it's cooldown, yet you put a box limit and/or reduce it's duration, this would allow for Shaco to set up traps faster (which is basically what his job is), allowing him to keep up with his team, all while not making him completly broken, since his boxes now have a limit / don't last as long (random box encounters a minute after a fight is considered as toxic as teemo's shrooms by the community). I don't think it would hurt jungle Shaco either, if it does, then make it so that Shaco's box limit gets higher with his ability ranks.

I would like honest feedback on this topic and none of that ''shaco is op fuk u'' bullcrap that i've seen on other threads.

Shac Norris, dedicated AP Shaco main.

17 Comments

FurretHasAGlock3 votes

nods head

Shac Norris2 votes

This might be a world record right here, Shaco thread and the first comment isn't mindless hate!

Love you

alfavhunter1 votes

No

I support shaco and this would nerf me

I rush CDR so I can spam boxes and having a box limit of say 3 would would reduce my box count on the map by 3-5 on average

What does need to be done is boxes should proc FQC

That's about it though

Shac Norris1 votes

RIOT refuses to give him that small buff. So i had to come up with something else.

His boxes don't proc Thunderlord's or FCQ, and it's been like that ever since they both started existing, and no rioter has ever answered my questions.

Shac Norris1 votes

Also, taking CDR runes greatly reduces your early game damage, which make your boxes your only viable ability (as your E deals peanut dmg if you don't level it up, and your Q costs 90 mana while u can't even rank it up if you don't want your damage to drop for a few levels), even though you can only use them once every 15s early game with low cdr, and that they get countered by a single use of a free trinket.

See where i'm getting at?

alfavhunter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shac Norris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BPrRtNOl,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-01-25T17:51:57.707+0000)

Also, taking CDR runes greatly reduces your early game damage, which make your boxes your only viable ability (as your E deals peanut dmg if you don't level it up, and your Q costs 90 mana while u can't even rank it up if you don't want your damage to drop for a few levels), even though you can only use them once every 15s early game with low cdr, and that they get countered by a single use of a free trinket.

See where i'm getting at?

I run Mana regen runes and spam boxes

As a support box placement is to prevent your adc from being engaged on, and spam E for poke

Also. You leash a second camp as support shaco for your jungler

With boxes

Leave 1 box on the camp jungler is starting and put boxes on next camp in a way it deactivates boxes as the camp chases you

The second camp leash is to get it down to 50% by the time your jungler finishes the other camp and have a box ready to tank 2 more hits for your jungler as he comes to finish off the camp

Support shaco isn't about damage its strategy and zone control

Shac Norris1 votes

To be honest, in his current state, any tanky support such as braum can just rush you and completly push your lane, rendering your boxes useless as they take too long to come off cooldown. As an early game Support Shaco, you don't have the damage or the cooldowns to take on ANY enemy unless you already placed 4 boxes and the enemy was stupid enough to lose 80% of his hp in them AND stay in the lane. If you don't take armor runes, it's just stupid to try to poke enemy adcs with your E, as anything one shots you.

As for leash strategies, i'd rather not lose lane xp, i just put 1-2 boxes in the blue bush as i leash the gromp with 1 box (or 2 if the adc doesn't leash), because if you get behind by even half a level, you'll get dominated by the enemy support.. Also, i don't think that his leash should be the primary factor when thinking about his changes. You can only play Shaco support against certain matchups if you want to win, any adc that can shove a lane really fast (like graves) will make you lose the lane, and at that point, it's all up to the jungler to decide whether he wants to help you or not.

As much as i hate to say this, playing AP Shaco Support right now is all about luck. Luck that the enemy will be dumb enough to run in your boxes, luck that enemies are dumb enough to not get that free trinket that negates that lane control you were talking about, luck that your adc isn't dumb and will actually hold his lane instead of letting them push, rendering you useless in the process.

alfavhunter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shac Norris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BPrRtNOl,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:28:21.018+0000)

To be honest, in his current state, any tanky support such as braum can just rush you and completly push your lane, rendering your boxes useless as they take too long to come off cooldown. As an early game Support Shaco, you don't have the damage or the cooldowns to take on ANY enemy unless you already placed 4 boxes and the enemy was stupid enough to lose 80% of his hp in them AND stay in the lane. If you don't take armor runes, it's just stupid to try to poke enemy adcs with your E, as anything one shots you.

As for leash strategies, i'd rather not lose lane xp, i just put 1-2 boxes in the blue bush as i leash the gromp with 1 box (or 2 if the adc doesn't leash), because if you get behind by even half a level, you'll get dominated by the enemy support.. Also, i don't think that his leash should be the primary factor when thinking about his changes. You can only play Shaco support against certain matchups if you want to win, any adc that can shove a lane really fast (like graves) will make you lose the lane, and at that point, it's all up to the jungler to decide whether he wants to help you or not.

As much as i hate to say this, playing AP Shaco Support right now is all about luck. Luck that the enemy will be dumb enough to run in your boxes, luck that enemies are dumb enough to not get that free trinket that negates that lane control you were talking about, luck that your adc isn't dumb and will actually hold his lane instead of letting them push, rendering you useless in the process.

He plays as a farm lane vs tanky supports use boxes for disengage that lets your adc still farm

He has bad matchup a and good match ups

For example I made a blitz rage at me, dropping boxes as he pulls to block pulls and run him OOM

Supports that dash in can get decked by support shaco boxes because you let them dash onto you (Leona naught) to get feared by 1 box, drop another box behind them, E the enemy adc and leave

You won the trade on thier support and did damage to thier adc with E and avoid retaliation with Q

Rushing mana regen (with tunes and support item) makes this possible to do often enough to make them stop engaging and just farm

He also gives good gank assistance CS enemy jungler and with your jungler

I've stopped many ganks with a box

I've even ruined tower divers with well placed boxes

I got tower dive 1v3 (my adc recalled) and got 2 kills out of it and lived because of pre planted boxes

Shac Norris1 votes

For example I made a blitz rage at me, dropping boxes as he pulls to block pulls and run him OOM

Based on luck.

I've stopped many ganks with a box

True, really useful against ganks, yet with that cooldown, if you place 2 boxes for enemy ganks, you'll get behind in lane.

Supports that dash in can get decked by support shaco boxes because you let them dash onto you (Leona naught) to get feared by 1 box, drop another box behind them, E the enemy adc and leave.

If the only thing you can do in lane is prevent the enemy from going all in on you, then you're not winning the lane.

alfavhunter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shac Norris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BPrRtNOl,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-28T00:56:16.997+0000)

Based on luck.

True, really useful against ganks, yet with that cooldown, if you place 2 boxes for enemy ganks, you'll get behind in lane.

If the only thing you can do in lane is prevent the enemy from going all in on you, then you're not winning the lane.

Who said that's all I do? I was giving examples

E does decent pole as well

I run almost full mana regen rune page on shaco support so I can spam my spells, taking advantage of CC from boxes (and skill shot blocking) and base damage on E

The clone is also useful for its explosion (tower dive with it before)

And blocking pulls with boxes isn't about luck it's about reflexes

Blitz and thresh have a wind up animation on thier pull even if blitz is much shorter

If you open yourself to a near max range pull you have plenty of time to react with a box

I've even fooled a thresh to think he had my grabbed by stutter walking to him and he went in onto my box under tower, placed another box down and watched him die to tower

Shac Norris1 votes

Tbh, Shaco's clone explosion radius sucks, for example, a Diana can ult your clone and not take any damage, same thing with fizz and a couple of other champions, because of the cast time, you can't catch people with it unless someone CCs the enemy.

And by the way, how do you feel about the new trinket nullifying every boxes of yours in team fights?

alfavhunter1 votes

It's annoying but the counter play is needed

But if they start using the trinket you space the boxes out more so it disrupts their mobility on the map

Did this to a Quinn and she gave up on recasting her ult to chase me down after the 7th box she ran into while chasing me

Shac Norris1 votes

Nope, level 9 free trinket upgrade, now follows you for 10 seconds, if they can't catch/kill you and you have time to run around for 10 fucking seconds, dodging every attack and managing to stay alive during that time, then you're playing against some bronze 5 suckers

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

I'd be fine with this, provided the limit is high enough. I think the problem with nerfing their duration lies in his first clear. Shaco will begin placing his boxes at 0:41 so they don't expire before camps spawn. If you reduce their duration you nerf jungle Shaco by reducing the boxes available for his first clear. If we reduce the ability's cooldown as well this would be less of an issue, but I'd be fine with this change for AP Shaco as long as AD jungle Shaco remains relatively the same.

Honestly I think the change Shaco boxes really need is to be more like Zyra's plants: 3 attacks to destroy at all points in the game, increased for jungle monsters and AOE abilities, and decreased for turrets. This not only improves consistency across the board (something that Riot is fond of, making it a change they would be more likely to implement) but also improves both AP and AD Shaco's reliability in the process.

Shac Norris1 votes

Yeah that's what i was trying to do, yet if he has lower cooldown on his boxes, placing them a little after 0:40 wouldn't hurt that bad would it? Also add to the facts that he has a box limit (in my proposed changes(and that it could scale with ability rank)).

I try not to hurt AD Shaco when i think about what could be changed on him, since that's what the majority of players play.

But 3 hits? 2 would greatly do the job, at least i wouldn't have to worry about someone dashing on me, and having the damage from the dash break the boxes, cancelling the fear and the damage..

Good to see i can get good honest feedback from actual Shaco players instead of Zed mains :)

CMD Ruby Rose1 votes

Shaco is all about mind games and boxing (heh) your opponent into kill zones. You control where your opponent goes, this change makes it less proactive and more reactive. A good Shaco player knows this. You would if you really mained him.

Shac Norris1 votes

Tell me about it, since you seem to be the number 1 Shaco player

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