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@Morello or @Meddler: List of badly designed champions or broken concepts?

TehNACHO··6 votes·2,828 views

Okay so that title is most likely going to get misunderstood fast so let me explain:

In terms of champions, I'm talking about the Poppys and the Evelynns of the game, champions with intrinsically problematic elements in their respective kits (Ultimates literally negating counter play to the terror that is an Evelynn who knows how to abuse her ability to essentially negate Green/Yellow Wards) that you really can't fix with straight number nerfs or power shifting. On the concept side of things, one of the bigger movements the balance team has made on that level are the removal of Silences on Assassins, because let's be perfectly fair, being completely unable to cast abilities while a champion is bursting you down is kinda bs (Imagine if Zed silenced you during the duration or even half of the duration of his Death Mark...gah).

I'm really curious just to see where Reds personally or actually think are champions that fall into this category. I mean, I just called out two by name, but are there others that you guys are keeping tabs on? Are there other widespread problems throughout the game that you guys wish to tackle one day (I hear Crits are getting some controversy, again, as of lately)? I would really appreciate it for someone to clearly express who/what they think are straight up problems in the game as they are in the game now.

And of course so this thread doesn't die on the vine, to anyone viewing this thread, do you guys recognize any champions/concepts that are problems in the game as they are now? Remember, I'm talking about concepts that you can't fix through straight up numbers tweaking.

24 Comments

CreationFlaw3 votes

RekSai LeeSin Gnar Riven Could add more, just adding the champions that are super mobile with good cc and high damage with only one or two AD items, maybe with the exclusion or Riven, but she has good damage with just a ravenous imo. Although my opinion of broken is usually being stuffed with so much that they can be put nearly anywhere in the game and perform well, regardless of the skill level of the person playing. Even riven can Dash in and stun and destroy a botlane with a decent comp support.

Also, on the term of silences, I still think Talons silence removal really screwed him over, compared to the other assassins. He has one of the hardest early games out of the assassins, and his mobility can only be casted on enemies, whereas other dashes like Katarinas Shunpo give damage reduction, and can be casted on most friendly things.

So unless I want to ult to escape every time since when it comes to team fighting with all the cc the meta has now. I can do it, it's just other champions have such an easy job compared to a talon in teamfight phase, like zed being able to cast a parallel shadow, hit both skillshots, which really isn't that hard, and e with both for a 60% slow and a decent chunk of damage. Petition to rename Cutthroat to Hamstring needle poke pls

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Zed Rengar Katarina Akali (if we count AP aswell)

FiraBurn2 votes

How are any of those champs on the list those champ are very interactive they have a lot of counterplay. Riven and Lee take a lot of skills to use on top of that. You cannot compare them to a champ like poppy who pretty much shut down 4 enemies from doing anything to her and on top of that so much built in tankness with a lot of damage it crazy and a toxic play style people hate to play against that is why she needs looking into none of which those champs you pointed out has.

CreationFlaw1 votes

{quoted}

How are any of those champs on the list those champ are very interactive they have a lot of counterplay. Riven and Lee take a lot of skills to use on top of that. You cannot compare them to a champ like poppy who pretty much shut down 4 enemies from doing anything to her and on top of that so much built in tankness with a lot of damage it crazy and a toxic play style people hate to play against that is why she needs looking into none of which those champs you pointed out has.

"How are any of those champs on the list those champ are very interactive they have a lot of counterplay. Riven and Lee take a lot of skills to use on top of that"

Oh my insec plays and 11 second cooldown at level one on meh 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+ 90% bonus ADx2 plus 8% of missing health) 1100/1300 range ability, yees, it's skill that takes that word called skill, but don't mind an urgot that has to constantly maneuver in order to hit his main ability. Or Lee sins 700 range shield that scales 80% with AP and then proceeds to cast again for 5/10/15/20/25% Lifesteal/Spellvamp for four seconds. Or his MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+ 100% bonus AD) Tempest and Cripple that gives a 60% slow that decays over four seconds and true sight of anybody invisible. Or y'know, his on click ultimate that deals PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 200 / 400 / 600 (+ 200% bonus AD) and also kicks the target 1200 range in any direction, on top of knocking up allies hit for one second.

But he takes a lot of skill to play to his full potential, sure, I'll give you that. But you don't need his full potential, not when you can build a ravenous and Beserkers and pure tank after that and duel anybody in the game, including a riven half the time. Actually, you can just know how to hit his basic abilities and how to aim and you're set to carry a game in low bronze mmr, or am I wrong?

FiraBurn1 votes

....... still need more skills to play than most

Kuroi862 votes

Ashe Darius Evelynn Irelia Mordekaiser Olaf Poppy Shaco Taric Teemo Urgot Vladimir Warwick Yorick Zilean Just imo.

Keevalroy2 votes

Yasuo Azir Kalista Shaco Yorick Taric {{ TryndamereLeeSin

ZeroQuest962 votes

I can give you a list. Zilean Yorick Warwick Vladimir Urgot Tryndamere Taric Swain Shen Ryze Riven Poppy Mordekaiser Kennen Gangplank Galio Evelynn DrMundo Long list isn't it? I can explain these in depth if you wish.

TehNACHO2 votes

It'd certainly be nice to see at least some of these champs looked at in depth.

ExecutorDill1 votes

{quoted}

I can give you a list. Zilean Yorick Warwick Vladimir Urgot Tryndamere Taric Swain Shen Ryze Riven Poppy Mordekaiser Kennen Gangplank Galio Evelynn DrMundo Long list isn't it? I can explain these in depth if you wish.

She needs a damn rework

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

I personally don't think that Taric is badly designed, Riot just believes that auras are unhealthy and give hidden power without any player skill. It's understandable.

If he's destined to get reworked, I'd like them to hurry up with it, because I'd actually want to have Top Taric become a legitimate thing instead of being regulated to bot lane.

IsIsGankedParis2 votes

They think Darius is a broken design and needs to be fixed, just saying.

Feast or famine.

Win one matchup with little skill, lose another hard.

Braindead kit.

Etc.

Doctrorpheus2 votes

There is absolutely no chance of a Red coming in here and talking shit about some other red's champion design. Unless like BIG BOSS RED comes in and even then it would be bad form for him to throw an employee under the bus.

tl;dr: Enjoy your no red responses.

Br4ndon1 votes

I personally think that invulnerability is the worst game mechanic and any champion with is broken simply because of it.

Every game, aside from league, I've ever played with invulnerability, it was exploited and manipulated to be used in unintended ways. While i dont think its being exploited or manipulated in League specifically, i still think that invulnerability has no place in league.

Thats just my opinion though.

Champion Skin1 votes

What about invulnerability like Repel (not actually invulnerability as dots and things like fiddle drain and morgana ult still hits you) and Zhonyas

Br4ndon1 votes

while i think untargetable is annoying, every untargetable i can think of also causes the champion to become unable to attack or use abilities. unlike kayles ult where she or anyone she casts it on can put out damage.

I can understand that kayles ult is a antiburst mechanism, i just think they can come at it from a different angle.

Guild Wars 1 has an antiburst mechanism called protective spirit, it only allows the character to lose 10% of its max health from any source that would do over 10% of max health.

Champion Skin1 votes

I don't really think Kayle's ult is that problematic if she uses it on herself It is a bit more troublesome if she uses it on an ally as then it is harder to counter it (Well at leas it doesn't have like 1000 range like it did before)

The thing is if you CC kayle first she can't use her ult and you can usually kill her rather quickly... (if you go for anyone else she can almost always save them or at least prolong their life

And honestly it isn't that bad... as a fiddle fear or rammus taunt will mostly negate it as they all last the same amount of time

One I find even more annoying is Tryndamere ult it lasts twice as long and you can't stop him from using it (unless you are able to surprise him with your burst and kill him before he reacts) Though I am not saying tryndamere is op... I understand and see that he needs his ult as it is now... it doesn't make trying to get around that annoying ult any better though

Kowe The Ewok1 votes

Leave my Poppy alone, she is fine as she is :(

CreationFlaw1 votes

Also, while Poppy is immune to damage, she isn't immune to cc from the target, and she's pretty easy to kite if you stay away from walls. She's not like riven who has pretty good base MS on top of like 1500 range of mobility, and poppy's only cc comes from hitting terrain, besides a slight push, tbh.

DropFill1 votes

Fiora Feast or famine champion that deals damage while untargetable. Bad design Ryze All point and click damage. He will always be OP or UP Tryndamere Pure based on his crit RNG to win lanes. Ultimate is one of the most BS things in this game Gnar Manaless champion that can harrass well in lane, do hibrid damage ( he builds AD tank and does health magic damage ). You can't engage when he is ranged, you can't fight when he is melee. Akali All point and click damage that can also sustain VERY hard. Irelia Her kit has everything, but she doesn't excel at a specific role. It is annoying to be unable to engage 1v1 on her becase of her point and click stun. It is annoying to be unable to CC her on teamfights because of her passive. Lissandra Point and click NUKE CC AOE ult. Pretty much this. She makes melee useless, except those who have some form of engage + tenacity ( Irelia )

There is more, but these ones are the worst IMO

CreationFlaw1 votes

{quoted}

Fiora Feast or famine champion that deals damage while untargetable. Bad design Ryze All point and click damage. He will always be OP or UP Tryndamere Pure based on his crit RNG to win lanes. Ultimate is one of the most BS things in this game Gnar Manaless champion that can harrass well in lane, do hibrid damage ( he builds AD tank and does health magic damage ). You can't engage when he is ranged, you can't fight when he is melee. Akali All point and click damage that can also sustain VERY hard. Irelia Her kit has everything, but she doesn't excel at a specific role. It is annoying to be unable to engage 1v1 on her becase of her point and click stun. It is annoying to be unable to CC her on teamfights because of her passive. Lissandra Point and click NUKE CC AOE ult. Pretty much this. She makes melee useless, except those who have some form of engage + tenacity ( Irelia )

There is more, but these ones are the worst IMO

First of all, read up, her E is a stun only if her health is lower then yours %wise. So you should actually not be a completely idiot and just be like, OH, lower healthed champion, attackattackattackattack.

DropFill1 votes

{quoted}

First of all, read up, her E is a stun only if her health is lower then yours %wise. So you should actually not be a completely idiot and just be like, OH, lower healthed champion, attackattackattackattack.

lower or equal in %. It is point and click. If you have higher health and she stuns , she will either win the trade after it OR just run away. If she is higher than you in health, she will prob kill you anyways.

HisokasMagicAura1 votes

Zed Lucian Gnar LeeSin Kalista Azir Yasuo Thresh Nasus Irelia MonkeyKing Syndra JarvanIV

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