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Can you please stop complaining about Zed?

AninLegions777··12 votes·1,759 views

I've been seeing so many threads about Zed being OP or having too much poke or having too much mobility. It's sickening. These posts have little to zero facts attached to them. It's clear that these people have no experience with Zed and probably lost one game to a good Zed player so they are whining about it. Let me describe Zed for you.

Zed's early game has to be above average if he has any intention of becoming strong because contrary to popular belief, Zed can't just "make a comeback". He's not Katarina.

Zed is a squishy assassin with 2 escape abilities built into his kit. His has medium/kinda high AD ratios on his abilities and he has a high skill cap. Contrary to popular belief (again), Zed doesn't have "too much poke" He has only one poke ability. His Q. When used with his W, this produces 2 shurikens that deal reduced dmg if they pass through multiple units. Zeds W is easy to bait and has a long CD. It's also his only escape ability, besides flash, before level 6 meaning you can set up a gank with your jungler or make your jungler sit in bush until Zed's W is on CD.

Post-6, Zed gets an average power spike thanks to his ult but his has to use his ult carefully or risk being in the middle of the enemy team where he can be immediately CCed (Hey there morg) and destroyed. Also, his ult is negated completely thanks to Zhonyas and QSS thereby reducing his somewhat OK assassination potential.

Zed is balanced. Believe it or not. He has VERY CLEAR counterplay. He's not like Rengar or Talon that'll send your ADC to doggy heaven in 0.5 secs. He also requires skill not just keyboard bashing.

So please, before making more threads complaining about poor Zed, save some IP, get Zed and play 20 games with him. You'll see that it isn't all fun and games.

EDIT: Downvote all you want. Whining about Zed won't make you better at the game. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

96 Comments

Dominick Destine6 votes

{quoted}

Zed's early game has to be above average if he has any intention of becoming strong because contrary to popular belief, Zed can't just "make a comeback". He's not Katarina.

That's literally the opposite of reality.

Katarina falls off incredibly hard unless she gets a significant lead and unlike Zed, Kat does not have a safe kit. When Kat goes in, it's either succeed or fail miserably.... Zed on the other hand can poke very safely... engage and disengage very safely.... etc.

It's not even close; Look at the statistics.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/katarina 47% win rate 3% pick rate Remember that low pick rate actually INFLATES win rate, so this indicates that Katarina is woefully underpowered.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zed 53% win rate 19% pick rate Remember that high pick rate actually DEFLATES win rate. So this indicates that Zed is brokenly overpowered.

AninLegions7772 votes

Mate, the argument of winrate isn't an accurate one. There are just so many factors not considered so I won't even bother with that.

All Katarina needs is one TF and she can penta leading to her snowballing for the rest of the game. Zed's TF potential is low AF. He pretty much does nothing compared to Katarina. And who said Zed doesn't face the same odds? If he goes in an fails, he's without a substantial part of his kit for well over a minute meaning he the enemy's bitch. Please don't get me started about poke. Kata has NO RESOURCES so she can just spam Q all day until you are low enough for an engage. You are also forgetting the fact that most of Kata's ability are targeted making it easier for her to poke. Zed's poke is not even as good as Talon's. The only advantage is range and Zed has to sacrifice his only escape ability to use it. Zed is a high risk, high reward champ. I don't get why people don't see this.

Dominick Destine6 votes

{quoted}

Mate, the argument of winrate isn't an accurate one.

That is only true if win rate is taken in isolation. If we use multiple variables to form a cluster of data points (ex: Win rate in conjunction with pick rate) we can make a valid assessment.

Zed is a high risk, high reward champ.

Zed is a low risk, high reward champ... that is precisely why he needs nerfs.

AninLegions7772 votes

I've seen your profile. Seems you are an anti-Zed summoner so no use debating with you.

Dominick Destine5 votes

{quoted}

anti-Zed

Yes, any intelligent player is "anti" overpowered characters.

Balance must be served.

AninLegions7772 votes

This is what I mean. Zed is nowhere near OP. Zed isn't:

  1. Riven: R>Q>Q>E>W>R and delete 3 of her enemies
  2. LB: Q>Q>R and delete the ADC
  3. Ahri: R>E>Q>W and delete Midlane
  4. Shaco: Q and delete ADC
  5. Talon: Ghostblade>E>Q>W>R and delete ADC and midlane
  6. Rengar: R>Empowered Q and delete ADC with 0 counterplay thanks to vision nerf.

I've mentioned 6 that can be considered OP and these aren't even all of them. You are Anti-Zed because you don't know how to play against the champ. You are too lazy to get better so you are betting on Riot nerfing him which is sad. Go and play Zed and tell me how easy it is to lane against Malzahar.

Dominick Destine5 votes

{quoted}

Zed is nowhere near OP.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zed High pick rate. High win rate.

http://champion.gg/champion/Zed High pick rate. High win rate.

Also note that high pick rate almost universally deflates win rate. Zed however has 53% win rate with an extremely high pick rate, indicating that he is overpowered to a spectacular degree.

You can delude yourself into believing nonsense, but reality does not bend to your emotion. Statistics are absolute.

AninLegions7772 votes

You keep bringing in winrates but your argument is still flawed. I'll quote some stats from Champion.gg. Try to process it carefully pls:

           Play Rate        Win Rate

Lucian: 42.39% 50.51% Ezreal: 37.47% 51.77% Janna: 18.68% 54.01% Ahri: 17.75% 53.28%

Now all these champs are above Zed's Play rate and they also have high winrates too. Does that make them OP? Not even close. You are the one deluding yourself by cherry picking here. Get good or go home instead of complaining about a balanced champ.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

           Play Rate        Win Rate

Lucian: 42.39% 50.51% ....they also have high winrates too.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

AninLegions7771 votes

I don't get your point. Lemme quote you:

Remember that high pick rate actually DEFLATES win rate. So this indicates that Zed is brokenly overpowered.

So according to your theory, since Lucian has more than twice the pick rate of Zed, he should have a wayy lower winrate which isn't the case. Does that now make Lucian "brokenly overpowered"? Hope you can see now why the winrate argument isn't accurate. Man, you'd think things this easy were easy to get across. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

So according to your theory, since Lucian has more than twice the pick rate of Zed, he should have a wayy lower winrate which isn't the case.

Except it doesn't work proportionately as you are trying to argue, better luck next time though

[slayer-jinx-catface]

AninLegions7771 votes

Hence the "According to your theory" beginning. You are one big bubble of contradictions and sad to say, you are also in denial. So: http://gifstorage.net/go?http://i.imgur.com/rbI9bFf.gif

Dominick Destine3 votes

Once again, nice try but no.

Most of the characters you listed are indeed overpowered, however Zed is completely broken... that's the difference. He has a higher win rate than almost every other character with a huge pick rate.

You can try to deny reality if you want, but it will not change. You have been easily decimated, gg. I will laugh at people like you when the Zed nerfs inevitably arrive.

Vekkna1 votes

{quoted}

Now all these champs are above Zed's Play rate and they also have high winrates too. Does that make them OP?

Yes. The difference is that they are never untargetable and can't teleport massive distances, only short distances.

I wouldn't say Janna is OP, but her win rate probably reflects the value of reliably peeling for overpowered adcs.

AninLegions7771 votes

Untargetable for how long mate? You are not even trying. AP champs have zhonyas that make them invulnerable for 2.5 seconds. That's 3 times more than Zed's. WHERE IS YOUR ARGUMENT?!

Vekkna2 votes

I was agreeing with you, but don't let that get in the way of you being a thundertwat.

AninLegions7771 votes

How is this:

Yes. The difference is that they are never untargetable and can't teleport massive distances, only short distances.

agreeing with me?

Shonjl1 votes

Literally all I got from reading a lot of what you said is you are just some douchebag.

Almost everything you said was basically an attack on people.

So ima just say enjoy Zed til he gets nerfed. He will have the same treatment as Sejuani most likely and get nerfed, and new item will get nerfed too and he will disappear.

Feel free to say something, I could use a laugh

AninLegions7771 votes

Then I suggest you read again. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ChargeItDownMid5 votes

[deleted]

AninLegions7771 votes

Like I said. If Zed just dies once early game, he's going to fall behind hard. And if he's against an LB or a Talon, it just gets worse. I agree with map pressure but he's pretty much balanced.

ChargeItDownMid6 votes

[deleted]

AninLegions7771 votes

Can't believe a diamond player is making these comments. If Zed dies once or twice in lane against a Malz or Talon or Syndra, he's gone. They can poke him so hard because he has less dmg and is probably 2 levels below them. This means that he can't farm. There's no way a Zed outscales a Talon. Impossible.

He's far above average if you let him come back. This isn't hard. Ward. Call ss whenever Zed leaves your lane and follow him. Insta-CC him immediately he appear from his ult. Get QSS/Zhonyas. Get tanks Like Alistar or Renekton or Nasus. These are simple ways to ensure Zed never comes back. This should be basic knowledge to you...

Vekkna3 votes

Of course he outscales them. He has stacking modifiers of 10%, 25%, and now another 25%.

Having problems with Syndra? item 3156 Fixed.

AninLegions7772 votes

Wow. 25% Makes him so OP. He should get nerfed to the ground. Get real man. You can't outscale a fed Talon. For one he completely counters Zed's ult and he ult has a lower CD early game. This means Talon's kill potential against Zed is probably twice that of Zed's against Talon.

Maw gives a measly 350 Shield iirc. He Q can pop that. Next?

Catastrop3 votes

{quoted}

Maw gives a measly 350 Shield iirc. He Q can pop that. Next?

Someone doesn't know how resistances and shields work. Also, assuming this Syndra has like a million MPen to break the shield in one Q, what's she going to do with the remaining 400-550 hp? Auto it down?

AninLegions7771 votes

You are funny. You didn't read up on how much dmg Syndra does did you? Well let me educate you:

Her rank 5 Q (She'll have it by the time Zed gets Maw) does: 264.5 (+ 69% AP). It has a 4 sec CD. She can easily pop it with 2 Qs. So you were saying?

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

You are funny. You didn't read up on how much dmg Syndra does did you? Well let me educate you:

Her rank 5 Q (She'll have it by the time Zed gets Maw) does: 264.5 (+ 69% AP). It has a 4 sec CD. She can easily pop it with 2 Qs. So you were saying?

So, what you're saying is you don't know how to avoid her Q? Especially when it's very obvious when she walks towards you?

AninLegions7771 votes

Same can be said for Zed's W. Yet everyone is crying about it.

Catastrop4 votes

That's about 367 damage, provided she has 150 AP, before resistances. Now, let's get educational. MoM itself gives 350 Magic Shield, weaker than the damage sure, however it also gives a nifty 50 MR. Now, let's say Zed himself is Level 9 as well, he'll have a total of 90 without runes accounted. This is effectively about 49% Magic damage reduction. Now let's say Syndra has exactly hmm, 29 MPen. Zed's MR is cut down to 61. That's roughly 40-45% reduction. Let's go with 40%. That effectively brings the damage done by her Q to gasp look at that, 221. Now there's still 129 left on the shield and considering the shield just procced, this tells us that Syndra just fully combo'd him and Zed has about 330 HP. Everything is on CD's, Ignite 230 damage, but considering that she just started the combo, ignite is only about half way through. So Zed has 215 HP and a 129 Magic Damage shield on. That's more than enough for Zed combo her and kill her because all Syndra can do at this point is Auto.

AninLegions7771 votes

Wonderful! So you just, out of the blues, assumed that Syndra ulted a Zed with Maw, without poking him down first? My dear child, let me teach you something. Syndra is one of the best poke champs against Zed. She denies him so much farm and since has Q has a lower CD than Zed's Q, she can poke more times. Meaning that Zed she can poke up to half hp and then full combo Zed. Don't forget. Also Syndra's ult does this much dmg with 5 spheres (which is easy to attain): 450 (+100%) Magic dmg which is about 750 AP without resistances (you can calculate that. I cba). That's more than enough to kill Zed. If not, she'll use her low CD Q to finish him off.

Catastrop4 votes

Because a low HP Zed is sticking around a Syndra of all champions, if you're going to make up ridiculous scenarios just stop talking. Also, at level 9 provided Syndra has 5 sphere's up and the same AP and MPen as stated, her full combo does 1087 before resistances. Yeah, at 40% reduction, that's roughly 624 magic damage. Now let's say she manages to get one more Q in, that's 824 HP in damage. Much oneshot. Meanwhile Zed can now proceed to kill her off because even if she gets one more Q, it's still not enough to kill.

AninLegions7771 votes

Nah mate. Syndra deals so much dmg with her Q, that Zed will never have more than 3/4 hp in lane except when he's returning from fountain. Remember I stated initially that she has Zhonyas. So that Zed can't kill her because, hurr durr, Zhonyas is her first build.

Catastrop2 votes

Dude you're just in denial at this point, so I'm just going to stop in order to save precious braincells managed to survive. I'll indulge you once more though, the same applies in reverse, once Zed gets MoM, Sundra won't be able to kill as well. As this matchup is a stallfest through and through. Either they both roam and get fed, or the just keep waiting out each other's ult which they will never use as both parties have the sufficient counterplay for the other.

Catastrop1 votes

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Vekkna2 votes

All your arguments are based on emotions and fake numbers. You don't think a multiplicative 25% damage is not enough to make a champ OP. OK. Math is obviously very hard for you, which explains basically everything you've posted in this thread.

AninLegions7771 votes

These aren't fake numbers. Check league wiki. You'll see them.

Multiplicative dmg that can be completely nullified by 2 items. Maths isn't hard for me. Maybe it is for you so you want to put us in the same boat. Won't work son.

Vekkna2 votes

Yawn.

You know who else's damage is nullified by Zhonya's? Literally everyone.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

AninLegions7771 votes

He's not overpowered in high elo. He's stronger because most people know how to use him. Low elo players think all there is to Zed is W>E>Q but high elo players have to consider variables like summoner spell status, ward control, missing enemies, CD of the enemies, etc. These are what seperate low elo Zed players from the high elo ones. I've seen a pro player (can't remember his name) use Twisted Fate to counter Zed and I don't even know how to do that. I just pick Talon, Fizz or Morgana into him and make his Post-6 a living hell.

You can poke him enough to deny him farm. For example, say you use Talon. He uses his W to poke. You go in later with your E>Q>W combo and outtrade him. He's force to go under tower or go b. It all depends on whether his W is on CD. If you call SS/Ward and see him coming, he wastes time moving out of lane while also losing farm and xp in the process. It reduces his kill potential even further. Talon's map pressure is insane thanks to his invisibility and E. By the time you see Talon's blades, you are probably dead. Zed can still be interrupted while trying to do his combo. Too risky.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

AninLegions7771 votes

He has been bouncing between overpowered and borderline overpowered for a few patches now. His map pressure simply makes him easily outclass 60-70% of the champions in league. He only has issues when he runs into the top 20-30 champions in league and even then, he comes out on top more often than not

Overpowered? Man have you seen Udyr?! That's overpowered. Running at you with 600 MS and there's nothing you can do about it. He has dmg. Tankiness. Waveclear. Etc. That's broken. Also he nullifies the burst potential of pretty much any assassin. He's the broken one. Same with Rengar that oneshots your ADC in 0.5 seconds with little to no counterplay. The reason Zed seems so OP in high elo is that the people there actually know how to play him and when to use his abilities instead of spamming Q any time it's off CD. He's strong, no doubt, but overpowered? Not even close.

You are focusing too much on laning. Zed doesn't have to trade with talon if he doesn't want to, he always has the option of just staying back and farming. Sure, his earlygame is so powerful that he can trade with pretty much anyone whenever he wants but he always has the choice to just farm and outscale someone like talon. Also, talon's map pressure is nowhere near as good as zed's because his kit is so much more binary. He has to go all in, is extremely predictable, and cannot dictate the flow of a game as a result. Zed's power comes from the fact that he always has the option to dictate fights.

Staying back and farming is hard when Talon keeps throwing his W when Zed wants to farm. If he doesn't use his W, he's going to be denied so much farm and XP in lane. I still believe that Talon outscales Zed. His abilities all have lower CD, high AD ratios, Damage amplification and invisibility. According to: http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Middle&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend , Talon has the second highest winrate in plat+ meaning to an extent that he outscales Zed. His kit is just too snowbally. He can gank bot and top with ease thanks to his dmg amplification and invisibility that keeps the enemy from seeing him. Zed is kinda predictable too. You know when he want to go in. He either uses his W to all-in or comes close to you. It's all about positioning tbh.

Catastrop2 votes

This is true. He was never really a problem for me down here because it was easy enough to exploit his weaknesses. However he really got buffed with the change in itemization, since then, not even my main counter for Zed(Lulu) has been as effective because once he builds a MoM he automatically wins lane. Added to the fact that TLD is a thing, he also does a reasonable amount of magical poke so a Zhonya's alone isn't going to cut it. There's also another problem, Zhonya's. This item has seen way better days, and the reason for it's current state in my eyes is Zed himself. If it's allowed to be too strong, it nullifies him completely, too weak and he stomps every mage. So it's left in a rather awkward state where either way, we give him the advantage because we don't have it and he's allowed to kill us, or we finally have it but at that point he's already gotten too ahead for it to make any difference. It's not even like we have other options, what are we going to build, QSS?

Shonjl1 votes

I cant believe an account that is ranking up (Or hiding their real account) is questioning a Diamond lol.

While most of the stupid people will ignore that stuff since well, they are probably Bronze 5 and there for a reason. Most smart people will listen to someone at Diamond since it means they have a damn well better idea of the game than you or I.

AninLegions7771 votes

Puhleaseee! Don't make me laugh. Questioning a Diamond? I did that when I was bronze in S2. I got better in the game so when people like you mention rank, I'll laugh at your ignorance. Get something straight. If you notice, the diamond player didn't even say what you just said. He knows better. Secondly, if you watch videos by Red mercy or plays made by pro players on Youtube/Streams, you'll see that what I'm saying holds up. Lastly, kissing up to a diamond, that's just low.

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

lol Zed does not have a significantly above average lategame. If you think he does then you need some serious help

SnugglePuggle945 votes

EDIT: Downvote all you want. Whining about Zed won't make you better at the game.

Wow. How rude. Don't say things like that.

He is not balanced. Oh, don't say the whole Zhonya/QSS thing. We AP champions, if poked out of farm by him, rarely get that item early game because of the cost increased. It's about mid game until we get the full item, and even then if we sacrifice early game power for a QSS that offers no useful stats against him besides the active, we have no damage to turn on him. He can still kill us easily at level 6 with a Seekers providing we were able to get it by then and easier if we don't have it, and when we Zhonya, he can just wait it out, Q combo and bam dead anyway.

Zed can easily take out a 1/4 of your health with one poke combo, then if he hits you again you're under half health. Prior to contrary belief his poke is hard to dodge, and standing between minions makes it hard to try to farm while he hits you. Also it's very frustrating if you are staying in lane to farm but being harrassed the whole time, then at level 6, if you are low and try to back, he just ults you under turret and gets away even if you CC him.

Not all people who complain about him are bad against him. Stop assuming that we all suck and are as salty as Fizz . I can handle Zed, but sometimes I can't. Sometimes they make stupid absurd plays and get out with less than a 100 health while I'm in a death timer. I used to be able to 1 v 1 him with my favorite mid laners like Diana and Zyra. Now it's hard to deal with him even with Diana, who's classified as a counter to him.

And don't even dare trying to put my rank into your argument. We all have valuable opinions even if we are in a rank below you.

AninLegions7771 votes

It isn't rude mate. Let me use a real life example. If you keep complaining that money is hard to come by and you don't work, how do you expect to get money? Same with this one. If you keep complaining that Zed is OP without actually playing him extensively, then how do you expect to know his weaknesses? Stop finding insults where there are none.

He is not balanced. Oh, don't say the whole Zhonya/QSS thing. We AP champions, if poked out of farm by him, rarely get that item early game because of the cost increased. It's about mid game until we get the full item, and even then if we sacrifice early game power for a QSS that offers no useful stats against him besides the active, we have no damage to turn on him. He can still kill us easily at level 6 with a Seekers providing we were able to get it by then and easier if we don't have it, and when we Zhonya, he can just wait it out, Q combo and bam dead anyway.

He's balanced. Mate, why is an AP champ buying QSS? It's not even smart. How can you say you'll get Zhonyas mid game? Is it that you can't farm or roam? Zed can't do things he normally would do when you have Zhonyas, like dive or Focus you in teamfights. This reduces his assassination potential because he now has to focus the least tankiest person out of the tanks. Also, saying that Zed can outpoke a mage is pure, excuse my french, BS. Zed's so-called "Poke" is hinged on an ability that has over 10 seconds CD which means for 10 seconds, he's vulnerable to poke, he can't all-in you except he uses flash (which is hyper risky) and he's also vulnerable to gank. Also, if you push to Zed's tower, then you are doing it wrong. Freeze the lane and don't try to poke him while losing farm. Wait for his W to be on CD, then poke him.

Zed can easily take out a 1/4 of your health with one poke combo, then if he hits you again you're under half health. Prior to contrary belief his poke is hard to dodge, and standing between minions makes it hard to try to farm while he hits you. Also it's very frustrating if you are staying in lane to farm but being harrassed the whole time, then at level 6, if you are low and try to back, he just ults you under turret and gets away even if you CC him.

1/4? Try 1/2 with LB QW which has a lower CD than Zed's poke. Try 1/2 with Lux's Q>E>AA combo. And don't even get me started with Malz. Fun fact: Do you know that Zed's Q does reduced dmg when it passes through minions? Well now you know. It's also VERY easy to dodge. Why? Because most mage spells have high range so you don't even need to stand close to your minions to farm. Also, never stand still in lane except you want to bait his W. If you don't and you get hit, that's entirely your fault. Why stay close to turret when you B? Any champ can dive when you are low. Annie does it, Malz does it, Talon does it, etc. That's your fault again. Also that last part is a lie. A well time morgana Q will leave Zed under the turret long enough to eat enough shots. You just have to practice.

Not all people who complain about him are bad against him. Stop assuming that we all suck and are as salty as Fizz. I can handle Zed, but sometimes I can't. Sometimes they make stupid absurd plays and get out with less than a 100 health while I'm in a death timer. I used to be able to 1 v 1 him with my favorite mid laners like Diana and Zyra. Now it's hard to deal with him even with Diana, who's classified as a counter to him. And don't even dare trying to put my rank into your argument. We all have valuable opinions even if we are in a rank below you.

Who says? I used to complain about Malz because he countered Zed so hard until I learnt from Youtube how to play against him. Since then I've never complained about any champ. Instead I just mention their high dmg but never complain. I'm not assuming you suck but most of the people making arguments don't even have up to 50 ranked games with him. I mean how do you expect me to take you seriously when you haven't even extensively played the champ you are complaining about? It's just like an architect complaining about oil prices when he doesn't even know what caused them to drop. I'm not saying I have a 100% winrate against Zed. Some times I lose and that's because I got outplayed, greedy or underestimated my opponent. But I learn from my mistakes and move on instead of complaining. Diana counters Zed hard, I can say that for sure but if you get Merc threads + Maw + Sterak's Gage (You need this to survive the burst), then you are K. Just pray she doesn't get fed from your teammates. I never bring rank into arguments. I personally hate when people do that. Heck, I use my level 19 acc to make sure rank never comes up. So no need to worry about that.

Vekkna5 votes

923 words of the stupidest shit I've ever seen. Impressive.

[zombie-brand-clap]

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