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An idiot's thoughts on Bard

BLU Medic··17 votes·2,621 views

I don't get Bard. Normally, when I test a new champion out in a bot game, I come out of it learning something. This didn't happen with this guy. Now, I'm an idiot, but occasionally, even idiots can see when things aren't working right.

Problem the first: Chimes are dangerous, man! My fourth chime spawned by enemy team's wolves. Thank heavens this was a bot game, because wandering into an unwarded jungle is stupid. How am I, a rather frail support, supposed to go and get that? Surely chimes should spawn within a radius to Bard, not on the other side of the map?

Problem the second: Not enough meeps! I only ever get two meeps at a time? And I may accidentally waste them attacking minions? One of Nami's spells is an auto attack buff, and although it costs mana, she gets 3 uses out of it and has a slightly better cooldown.

Problem the third: People don't seem to like health packs. It's Howling Abyss all over again, people either get angry and rush to grab a health pack or are too polite to take them. Also the idiot that I am, I kept on walking over them as I placed them in front of me. Maybe there should be a small delay or something, or perhaps make Bard's hitbox a bit smaller.

Problem the fourth: Please just give Bard a normal stun or something. Taric has a point and click stun. Sona has an AOE ultimate stun. Nami has two knock ups. Thresh has a skillshot hook and knock up. Leona has a stun. Braum has a stun that's proc'ed by anyone. Annie has stuns up the ying yang. Morgana has a dangerous root. Bard can't compete against these stuns. Make it a normal skillshot stun. Or, even better, make it like Anivia's stun, activate it at the right time to stun enemies.

Problem the fifth: Tunnels are hard to click on, doubly so if you're on red side. Thresh's Lantern is how you make an ally movement spell readable. I thought we all liked clarity?

Problem the sixth: It's a good thing I'm a nice player, because this ultimate is plain old mean. Yes, there's some cool opportunities, like ulting a tower so you can dive the enemy, but that's assuming your team mates are reading your mind. I accidentally denied a Darius a pentakill, because I used my ultimate to save him, but he flashed back in at just the wrong moment.

Problem the seventh: If you're roaming all the time to get chimes, how do you get gold? Do you HAVE to use item 3303 to increase your passive gold? Do chimes grant gold? Does a Bard player end up so gold starved that they can barely afford their sightstone?

Problem the eighth: Is there any point collecting chimes? Is there any point risking your life to collect them?

Problem the ninth: This is the biggest one I have - Is it worth leaving the ADC alone against two other enemies? This guy needs to be protected, he'll hopefully be carrying your team later on. But Bard HAS to leave his ADC with nothing more than health packs for company against two bloodthirsty monsters that want to tear him apart. I'd rather stick with my team mate. It's better for everyone.

It feels like Bard was made for LCS, where everyone has super tight team work, constant communication and everyone roams anyway. But all of that is missing in anything BUT 5-man teams. Which is a shame because there's loads of cool ideas here.

TL;DR: Bard is completely reliant on teamwork and good communication, and even then, I bet he'd struggle.

A bit like the TF2 Medic, but not as useful.

27 Comments

Sozan58 votes
  1. Chimes last 10 minutes and delaying the pick up doesn't stop other chimes from spawning. Also, the bonuses aren't that crucial to have on start (outside of the first 5 which will give you slow).
  2. Meeps are generally more powerful and cost nothing. And the maximum for meeps is 4, not 2 (depends on your chimes collected though).
  3. Those are yours and your team mistakes, not problem with a champion.
  4. Again, that's just champion mechanic. And the stun can work on up to 2 targets, have very low cooldown, high duration and costs little mana. Every skill should have both pros and cons.
  5. This is a valid point. If you haven't played Bard for some time already, you will have a hard time passing through his tunnels.
  6. His ultimate have tons of uses, but that does come at a price of making a big misuse as well.
  7. You aren't supposed to go for chimes all the time. This is by far the most common mistake that Bard players make.
  8. They do scale reasonably well into late game, as well as providing some utility with the mana regen and movement speed buff. They are not worth risking your life for though (especially since they last 10 minutes).
  9. Look at number 7.

Anyway, the problems you listed are mostly just your misunderstanding what the champion role is. Because, you see... Bard is a support. Not a secondary jungler that spends very little time on lane. Anyway, I am not a Bard pro either, but I will try to give you some tips:

  • Do not leave your lane to grab chimes randomly. Just don't. They last 10 minutes, that's plenty of time to pick them up. It's not worth going for 2-3 chimes and have your ADC killed in the meanwhile.
  • Do collect chimes while going to ward up, but only the ones that spawn nearby your path.
  • Before collecting chimes - place a healing shrine (unless you already have 3 or are saving mana for fight) - you will regenerate more mana from your chimes this way (since they regenerate for %missing mana).
  • If enemies follow you through E you can always stun them with well timed Q (since E can be only placed on walls). You can also ult them.
  • Your ultimate should be used on your allies sparingly. More often than not it will be a hindrance rather than help (since the long travel time can fuck it up).
  • The easiest way to use his ultimate is to just use it on enemy backline at the very start on the fight. Your team will either have time to reposition or (more often) to kill off some of the front line (since enemy damage will be crippled without the backline). The 2,5s is a very long time in teamfight. You can also drop it on front line, but it's harder and more risky. Do not use it on backline if your team initated on them obviously.
  • Good times to collect chimes are:
  • Enemy bot lane just recalled/died
  • Your adc just went base and the lane is pushed
  • Your adc just went base/died and the lane is pushed up to your turret but you can't do anything about it
  • You are confident your adc can handle the enemy bot lane (for example if one of the enemies is dead, or your carry is already fed as hell)
  • Do not stop at collecting chimes though. Everytime you go to do it - either gank middle lane, place deep wards, counterjungle (with your jungler obviously, don't do it alone) or kill the crab (you should do this with some assistance too, since Bard kills it very slowly by himself).
  • Chimes show up red on map if they are about to expire (1 minute left).
The5lacker8 votes

Chimes do spawn within a radius. It's just that that radius happens to be around ~2000-2500, which extends into the enemy jungle. However, Bard's core concept is his roaming, so having them spawn near him means he occasionally roams ten feet to the left, which...is kinda dumb.

Your meep storage count gets up to 4 depending on the number of chimes you collect, as well as getting an AoE component, a slow, and applying spell effects which increases the usefulness of the Spellthief line.

I actually haven't had any problems with my health packs other than the fact that they're COMPLETELY USELESS past the 15 minute mark, because nobody is going to be able to wait the 10 seconds for it not to be the worst heal in the game.

Bard has massive CC potential with his ult, and his Q isn't really all that unreliable. All I'd want is a longer range or better MS so I can position myself at a more useful angle.

Tunnels are currently very bad. So hard to take anyone, even myself, on a journey if I'm going down in any capacity. Riot didn't account for camera angles, which is kinda like not accounting for eyeballs.

Bard's all about communication. Yes, he speaks entirely in windchime noises, but that doesn't mean you have to. But even by itself, so long as you're aware of your surroundings, there's plenty of potential in it. It just needs to hit a little sooner, methinks.

I've actually never had gold problems as Bard. At least, not moreso than EVERY OTHER SUPPORT IN THE GAME. Spellthief triggers off your meeps, so that's a double proc on top of Pickpocket right there.

There are ADCs that you can leave by their lonesome. Not all of them, but plenty can hold down the fort for a bit while you go roam, especially if you're smart enough to leave a pair of health packs under tower and don't roam too far. But I'd have no qualms leaving a Cait, Sivir, or even a Vayne alone. They can all support themselves for short periods of time. But I would never leave a Kog'Maw or Varus without adequate support, especially against a kill-lane like Thresh/Lucian or Leona/Draven. You just gotta let those Chimes build up and roam after a successful gank or something in those instances.

Bard's only problems right now are his low mobility and his utterly pitiful heals. He's got pretty good CC (if a bit too blockable by minions), strong teamfighting potential, and several forms of unique utility. If they just made the rest of his skills scale with Chimes and give him a bit more mobility to actually go collecting them or reposition himself (330 MS with 500 Range, is this a joke?), I think he'd be in a good spot.

FantasySniper5 votes

{quoted}

I actually haven't had any problems with my health packs other than the fact that they're COMPLETELY USELESS past the 15 minute mark, because nobody is going to be able to wait the 10 seconds for it not to be the worst heal in the game.

Bard has massive CC potential with his ult, and his Q isn't really all that unreliable. All I'd want is a longer range or better MS so I can position myself at a more useful angle.

Tunnels are currently very bad. So hard to take anyone, even myself, on a journey if I'm going down in any capacity. Riot didn't account for camera angles, which is kinda like not accounting for eyeballs.

Bard's only problems right now are his low mobility and his utterly pitiful heals. He's got pretty good CC (if a bit too blockable by minions), strong teamfighting potential, and several forms of unique utility. If they just made the rest of his skills scale with Chimes and give him a bit more mobility to actually go collecting them or reposition himself (330 MS with 500 Range, is this a joke?), I think he'd be in a good spot.

For a guy who's a "wanderer", he never wanders very fast. Even with chimes, Talisman, Mobi-Boots, the Wanderer mastery, self-speed boosts from the shrines, and use of Magical Journey, (half of which isn't easily accessible) he still doesn't get anywhere fast enough to actually position effectively. That sorta speaks for itself right there...

BLU Medic1 votes

So quite simple changes then.

The5lacker1 votes

Pretty much. The only large change I'd suggest is a change in how his E works, as ONLY working through walls seems excessively limiting. I'd make it a free-floating portal with a clickable entrance about a foot in front of Bard, with the exit placed up to 1000 units away. I'd move the bonus MS from traveling through it to a passive component that he also gains while out of combat, and add Chime scaling to his Q and W.

Sirsir5 votes

Bard has 2 problems.

  1. Bard has a weak lane. His Q is unreliable, his E doesn't work in lane, ult doesn't become relevant for like the first half of it. Its not an issue for most roles, but not acceptable for a support.

  2. Including his passive, all of his abilities can flub. 3 of them can backfire horrendously. Improper Chime collecting has been the loss of many a lane, I've lost dragons and teammates to a stupidly placed E, and the ult... I can't fit that in this.

Also the idiot that I am, I kept on walking over them as I placed them in front of me. Maybe there should be a small delay or something, or perhaps make Bard's hitbox a bit smaller.

That would make it harder to use the speed up

Rico Nasty4 votes

bard would be a good champ but his kit design is such a flop. "but he's a roaming support!" no, nobody does roaming support anymore, it just doesn't work at all. "his ult is op!" no, it is useless 90% of the time. "i'm sure some people could learn bard well!" tbh i'm not even going to try bard, he seems completely impossible. he needs a rework.

Anidan2 votes

My problem isn't that he's a roaming support, my problem is that he's just.. not very good at it. If you're going to be roaming, you absolutely need some consistency or to have a lot of presence (Leona, Taric, Blitzcrank, Thresh, for example), and Bard kind of has neither. His stun isn't a guarantee, his ult can backfire, his E can blow up in his face oh so horribly, and doesn't really deter a chase with only 10% speed reduction.

He has no high-threat abilities, and the one ability that could allow him to roam well, his stun, isn't a guarantee, unlike Taric.

He doesn't need a rework, but it's going to take a while (or buffs) before I see him becoming a prominent pick. The meta doesn't favor him, and even if it did, there are others who do it better at the moment.

Pandemic Punch3 votes

I believe that buffing his heal in such a way where it is viable in the late game, that Bard will be a strong pick. It is already strong in the laning phase but during the late game in a long team fight, it is reallllly weak. Maybe give his heal a max health% heal to make healing worth your mana in the late game.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Maybe give his heal a max health% heal to make healing worth your mana in the late game.

This was one of the things they originally said was a problem on Karma (before the deleted her). It would be great. But it might cause another resurgence of that group. (We're already pissed about new champs being teamwork reliant, when that was her "core problem".)

AsianPoonHunter1 votes

its the complete opposite

Pandemic Punch1 votes

Healing someone for 150 health is a weak heal. Especially a tankier member.

M0RDEKA1SER2 votes

Most people have already figured all of this out. You still hit the nail on the head.

Riot could probably just delete him and refund everyone who bought him and only 1% of the player base would be upset about it.

Their only other decent option is to completely rework his kit or give a major buff to what he already does.

An idea I've thought of to help the ADC, is to give him a passive like Kalista's.

-Passive: Works like normal except; The further you get away from your bound ally, the more (insert: AD, AP, Health, Etc. here) they gain. This effect deteriorates after 1 minute. Whenever you collect a chime, your bound ally is healed based on how many chimes you have collected.

This way, he could safely roam, without completely jeopardizing his ADC, and continue to stay viable throughout the match.

TehNACHO1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLU Medic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEtdALUd,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-04T20:02:22.952+0000)

Problem the eighth: Is there any point collecting chimes? Is there any point risking your life to collect them?

Problem the ninth: This is the biggest one I have - Is it worth leaving the ADC alone against two other enemies? This guy needs to be protected, he'll hopefully be carrying your team later on. But Bard HAS to leave his ADC with nothing more than health packs for company against two bloodthirsty monsters that want to tear him apart. I'd rather stick with my team mate. It's better for everyone.

No and no.

In S4 I tried out roaming support for the first time with Blitzcrank and Alistar. Let me tell you what my experience with roaming support is like.

Point 8: Done correctly, you can sacrifice your own experience to greatly increase multiple lanes', or even your Jungler's, chance at succeeding. With this in mind, Bard's chimes should not be a goal you want to attain, but a fallback on which to buffer your experience on. In my opinion, there should never be any point in risking your life and therefore risk falling behind to collect them, because the entire point of them is to make sure you don't fall behind trying to use this play style.

Poin 9: Blitzcrank and Alistar have the advantage of having a shitton of CC to start or turn around fights in the bot lane. In other words, if I'm playing seriously, there is a lot of downtime spent with the enemy team members dead or back in base. This downtime is when you're supposed to roam. Alistar and Blitzcrank's strengths lie in their CC, so if I'm not using it (like the enemy team is dead) then I'm wasting their abilities, that's when I would leave. My ADC is therefore protected during this time simply by the fact the lane is 1v1 anyway, or there's no one else in the lane at all.

This is probably my biggest gripe about Bard; his play style requires an understanding that not many people understand at all.

[joke]It should be a requirement to understand roaming support Alistar or roaming support Blitzcrank before you're allowed to play Bard[/joke]

DrNova1 votes

I've never seen a great bard. Seen some people good, but that was basic game understanding, not champ good.

Watched a number of high ranked games to try to figure out how to use him, and never seen any of then be notably sucessful either.

I'm of the opinion its a bad champ. Wish i hadnt bought in his current state

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

I'll be honest, when i see a bard's team win, I think the bard was great, as he can be such a throw when used improperly. I'd gotten used to not expecting wins with bards in game since I've only won like 2 games thusfar with him on my team.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

His scaling needs a serious buff. Chimes spawn too slowly.

GhostCadillac1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLU Medic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEtdALUd,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-04T20:02:22.952+0000)

Problem the fifth: Tunnels are hard to click on, doubly so if you're on red side. Thresh's Lantern is how you make an ally movement spell readable. I thought we all liked clarity?

From my games as Bard, I learned that you can click on the environment to help you go through your tunnels.

Problem the eighth: Is there any point collecting chimes? Is there any point risking your life to collect them?

Collecting chimes gives small buffs to your meeps.

indomitable11 votes

The limit of 3 health packs needs to be removed so he can drop them all around the map. Leaving a path of packs allies can use to run away already works fine but is limited by this. This is all he needs.

Cindikle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLU Medic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEtdALUd,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-04T20:02:22.952+0000) Problem the first: Chimes are dangerous, man! My fourth chime spawned by enemy team's wolves. Thank heavens this was a bot game, because wandering into an unwarded jungle is stupid. How am I, a rather frail support, supposed to go and get that? Surely chimes should spawn within a radius to Bard, not on the other side of the map?

They last 10 min and you're not expected to get all of them. Get the ones you're OK with. They're mostly there to make his late game strong. Most will spawn close to him.

Problem the second: Not enough meeps! I only ever get two meeps at a time? And I may accidentally waste them attacking minions? One of Nami's spells is an auto attack buff, and although it costs mana, she gets 3 uses out of it and has a slightly better cooldown.

More Chimes will upgrade this.

Problem the third: People don't seem to like health packs. It's Howling Abyss all over again, people either get angry and rush to grab a health pack or are too polite to take them. Also the idiot that I am, I kept on walking over them as I placed them in front of me. Maybe there should be a small delay or something, or perhaps make Bard's hitbox a bit smaller.

It's like Thresh's lantern. Not every really understands it or is used to it yet. But with Bard's current power, no one will since no one will want to play him.

Problem the fourth: Please just give Bard a normal stun or something. Taric has a point and click stun. Sona has an AOE ultimate stun. Nami has two knock ups. Thresh has a skillshot hook and knock up. Leona has a stun. Braum has a stun that's proc'ed by anyone. Annie has stuns up the ying yang. Morgana has a dangerous root. Bard can't compete against these stuns. Make it a normal skillshot stun. Or, even better, make it like Anivia's stun, activate it at the right time to stun enemies.

It just needs to be faster. It's also supposed to be 950 range I think. It really does not feel this way. On top of that 950 isn't much when you need a whole second target or a wall to activate the stun. It also doesn't have any "pizzaz". Other than the enemy stops moving, there really isn't a way to tell you landed the stun instead of a slow.

Problem the fifth: Tunnels are hard to click on, doubly so if you're on red side. Thresh's Lantern is how you make an ally movement spell readable. I thought we all liked clarity?

Personally. No problem. But it should be clearer.

Problem the sixth: It's a good thing I'm a nice player, because this ultimate is plain old mean. Yes, there's some cool opportunities, like ulting a tower so you can dive the enemy, but that's assuming your team mates are reading your mind. I accidentally denied a Darius a pentakill, because I used my ultimate to save him, but he flashed back in at just the wrong moment.

It's a powerful but risky ulti.

It does NEED an "on my way" arrow to go with it though for teammates. So allies don't just run out of it.

Problem the seventh: If you're roaming all the time to get chimes, how do you get gold? Do you HAVE to use item 3303 to increase your passive gold? Do chimes grant gold? Does a Bard player end up so gold starved that they can barely afford their sightstone?

Talisman is also fine. Really any of them can do. You can use the passive to last hit for Relic Shield. He's not meant to roam all game. He's just built to have it easier.

Problem the eighth: Is there any point collecting chimes? Is there any point risking your life to collect them?

They become a good part of your late game utility. His lategame win rate is actually decent. It's his early/mid that is the problem.

Problem the ninth: This is the biggest one I have - Is it worth leaving the ADC alone against two other enemies? This guy needs to be protected, he'll hopefully be carrying your team later on. But Bard HAS to leave his ADC with nothing more than health packs for company against two bloodthirsty monsters that want to tear him apart. I'd rather stick with my team mate. It's better for everyone.

You're not meant to roam all the time. Chimes last 10 minutes. Often when my ADC backs I'll get the ones in the river and such. Than after I back i get the ones in my jungle for the speed boost to get back to lane in time for my ADC. There are a lot of ways to make this work.

Problem is that he is very weak early game. So he has to work twice as hard as other supports to reward himself with the freedom to gather charms. This is mainly because his Q is so undependable.

DrNova1 votes

His lategame win rate is decent because if a team can MAKE it to late game with bard, they must be pretty good or got fed early. Has nothing to do with bard.

AsianPoonHunter1 votes

{quoted}

They last 10 min and you're not expected to get all of them. Get the ones you're OK with. They're mostly there to make his late game strong. Most will spawn close to him.

More Chimes will upgrade this.

It's like Thresh's lantern. Not every really understands it or is used to it yet. But with Bard's current power, no one will since no one will want to play him.

It just needs to be faster. It's also supposed to be 950 range I think. It really does not feel this way. On top of that 950 isn't much when you need a whole second target or a wall to activate the stun. It also doesn't have any "pizzaz". Other than the enemy stops moving, there really isn't a way to tell you landed the stun instead of a slow.

Personally. No problem. But it should be clearer.

It's a powerful but risky ulti.

It does NEED an "on my way" arrow to go with it though for teammates. So allies don't just run out of it.

Talisman is also fine. Really any of them can do. You can use the passive to last hit for Relic Shield. He's not meant to roam all game. He's just built to have it easier.

They become a good part of your late game utility. His lategame win rate is actually decent. It's his early/mid that is the problem.

You're not meant to roam all the time. Chimes last 10 minutes. Often when my ADC backs I'll get the ones in the river and such. Than after I back i get the ones in my jungle for the speed boost to get back to lane in time for my ADC. There are a lot of ways to make this work.

Problem is that he is very weak early game. So he has to work twice as hard as other supports to reward himself with the freedom to gather charms. This is mainly because his Q is so undependable.

Chimes giving gold would be a huge problem solver for his expensive core items

Yfrappefort1 votes

I hate playing with a Bard. In all game I saw him he seems like a non factor (no wonder he is below 40% win rate). Yes, his concept is new, and he might be hard to play, but still, hit kit is way too complex for solo queue. His ultimate, most of the time, will hurt you more then it will help you.

He seems so underwhelming compared to like...any other support.

Adyssthera1 votes

Maybe you guys just haven't played with any decent Bard players? I've been playing him quite a lot recently and I find him to be super OP. Part of the problem is that people don't know how he works yet and they just assume all Bard players will be bad. They avoid his healing wells mostly because they don't know what they even do! When I explain at the beginning of each game what they do, people are like OH SWEET! Also, I'll put up a Magical Journey for my teammates and they just walk around rather than take it, which always makes me /facepalm. But give it a little more time and I think people will finally see what he has to offer. Aside from that though, you can REALLY abuse the heck out of his kit if you know what you're doing.

For example:

  1. There are so many mind games you can play with Magic Journey. In bot lane, I can disappear for a few seconds and throw a magical journey up on the wall and the team has to retreat back to tower immediately out of fear of being ganked. One game, I just controlled the river brush on bottom side and the team basically never left their tower and my ADC just farmed away the entire time. If you can be a vision master with Bard and control their vision really well, I can be across the map and they will still hug their tower.

  2. If someone on the opposing team is even remotely out of position, it's enough to throw the game. I've won several games where I've caught even just 1 person out with my ult. Or if you clip their back line with your ult, you just turned a 5 v 5 into a 3 v 5 and you roll them. The ult is so incredibly powerful if you know how to use it.

I almost don't want them to buff Bard because people HIGHLY underestimate him and then get wrecked. The less people that play Bard the better for me I guess :) I'm not even close to mastering him, but I can see his potential. His skill cap is just massive!

Daedalus8711 votes

I think if Bard's Q threw a meep (if he has one available) and was longer range (like Lux Q) and moved faster, he would be alright over all.

LoL Ergo Urgot1 votes

There's another issue with Bard. Not with Bard but with how the player base views him. Most think of him as a useless champion. So playing him can really wreck the moral of your team. I no longer play him because of this. It's too risky. To piss everyone off in your team before the game even begins. He is the new Urgot in this perspective.

AsianPoonHunter1 votes

I personally think the champion is fine, they just really, really, really lack itemization for him. The items that I can see being good on him is Ardent censer and then after that like.,..what? Ohm Wrecker, ZZ BOC are good for what he does but - they are so expensive for core items you have to wait like 30 minutes to afford to pressure as a support?

Kit is fine, champion is fine - itemization is piss poor.

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