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The problem with Mejais

I Main Swain··2 votes·1,415 views

so as im sure everybody knows by now, occult and mejais were changed to start with 5 stacks and get halved upon death. this isn't as much of a problem with occult, but it's a HUGE problem with mejais. the starting gold efficiency upon buying mejais (if I remember correctly) is now 115%, even though it is supposed to be a horribly inefficient item early game. this wouldn't be so bad were it not for the state of ap assassins. as we all know, champions like Leblanc Katarina Veigar Fizz can all delete you without you being able to do almost anything about it, thusly taking a massive portion of the downside to mejais (high risk + high reward - high risk = high reward). this problem, in my opinion, is particularly prevalent on Katarina. she, unlike other assassins, is a team assassin. she assassinates your entire team, and if she is ahead, which she will be since she rushed mejais and roamed for ez kills, can ruin your entire team just as long as she doesn't get too cocky about it. I have seen this in almost every match ive played with a Katarina. same goes with Fizz and Leblanc but not quite as bad.

PS: don't say that kat has tons of counterplay, I know that. however, that counterplay is almost completely removed when you need several people, all with hard cc and exhaust at the ready in order to take her down safely in this situation.

22 Comments

Darkwind1 votes

AP fizz isn't worth playing, remove him from your post.

Valid complain on LB and Kat in particular. No comment on Veigar.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

so ad Fizz is suddenly viable somehow? ;l

Kitten of Evil1 votes

He didn't say that.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

well if ap isnt worth it the only other alternative is ad if ad isnt viable either, you would say fizz isnt worth it

we dont say alot of things but you still get a message across to others

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Lighten up, I was kidding. My implication was "yeah he said AP Fizz sucked, that doesn't mean AD fizz is now viable"

Darkwind1 votes

{quoted}

so ad Fizz is suddenly viable somehow? ;l

I didn't say that, as the evil kitten said. However, he could be. Maybe. Ever since I saw the change, I thought it was possible for these reasons:

  1. His ult amps ALL his damage, including his auto attacks. 20% amped crits? Yes please.
  2. His %missing hp dmg is on-hit. Therefore, it has synergy with attack speed. Most notably Botrk- with w active and botrk, you'll effectively do 8% max hp damage, rather than 8% missing or 8% current.
  3. High mobility, decent cc. Should be able to stick to enemies comparably to Irelia.

Essentially, I'd build him exactly like Irelia (except for including Botrk- don't do that on irelia)- item 3078 item 3153 item 3111 item 3102 item 3143 item 3026 or something similar. You can build either Botrk or trinity first, depending on lane- trinity vs squishies, botrk vs tanks.

In fact, I'd consider the comparison to Irelia very fair- if he's stronger than Irelia in lane or late game, he's worth playing. If not, he's not. I played him on PBE immediately after the change there, and he's burstier than Irelia, more slippery, and just very irritating in general. However, his lane phase is much more finicky- it's harder to farm when behind, but less vulnerable to ganks and snowballs about the same.

I Main Swain1 votes

I just put veigar in to show my point, I don't think hes busted just the item.

also, how is ap fizz not worth playing? I mean, its a douche champ if that's what you're getting at but you can literally e q and kill a squishy, you have pretty good cc, tons of aoe dmg, a low cooldown escape, no mana problems, a low cd ult, a heal reduction, and a target gapcloser nuke.

Darkwind1 votes

{quoted}

I just put veigar in to show my point, I don't think hes busted just the item.

also, how is ap fizz not worth playing? I mean, its a douche champ if that's what you're getting at but you can literally e q and kill a squishy, you have pretty good cc, tons of aoe dmg, a low cooldown escape, no mana problems, a low cd ult, a heal reduction, and a target gapcloser nuke.

That's not true anymore, though. Maxing E gives you a good bit of mana problems, maxing w is pointless, maxing q is stupid. WQ doesnt do damage anymore unless you landed your ult, so you have to use your E for damage. You don't have a heal reduction anymore.

Your AoE damage is still good, but if you're playing fizz, you're ALWAYS better off playing Leblanc. Just as mobile, safer in lane, does more damage in almost all cases, single target or AoE.

I Main Swain1 votes

I don't know what fizz's you've been playing against, but when I play him/with him, he can 2 shot someone late game with an e q, and his early game is still pretty strong if you just go in hard after lvl 2.

and don't forget, his q procs both his w and item 3100, effectively becoming a target nuke. its like if they made veigars q apply item 3100

Darkwind1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what fizz's you've been playing against, but when I play him/with him, he can 2 shot someone late game with an e q, and his early game is still pretty strong if you just go in hard after lvl 2.

and don't forget, his q procs both his w and item 3100, effectively becoming a target nuke. its like if they made veigars q apply item 3100

2 shot, yeah. But you HAVE to land the e or the r for dmg. Thats trash when compared to other champs. That means you have to get in range for 1 gapcloser to kill them, or land an r. Either way, you're better off playing someone else

I Main Swain1 votes

actually, your q can half health a squishier champ. and you seem to be under the impression that e or r are hard to land. besides, how is that trash compared to other champs? that's how literally every champ in the game is, having to land multiple abilities to get the kill (aa reliant champs aside). even if you do miss an ability, they are all on low cooldowns anyways and you wont have a hard time sticking close enough to kill them when they come back off cd.

Seriphym1 votes

Against a normal Katarina all you need is one CC.

Against a well played Katarina ....well GL I wish you a painless death.

I Main Swain1 votes

well I'm speaking specifically about kat with mejais.

and as a side note, I thought they reduced her q initial dmg? because it doesn't seem to be any lower, still dealing a surprisingly significant amount of dmg.

Be Kind Rewind2 votes

{quoted}

well I'm speaking specifically about kat with mejais.

and as a side note, I thought they reduced her q initial dmg? because it doesn't seem to be any lower, still dealing a surprisingly significant amount of dmg.

Where did you get the number 115%?

Quote from Lolwiki:

Mejai's Soulstealer item.png Mejai's Soulstealer is 31.1% gold efficient with no stacks and 93,2% gold efficient with its initial 5 stacks.

As a midlane mage main who understands how frustrating AP assassins can be, you're sorely overestimating its value.

I Main Swain1 votes

am I though? if you're playing an assassin like Katarina with a heavy lvl 6 power spike, all you have to do is roam and play safe enough that you wont die in cirumstances that you can control at all. and regardless of the difference in percentage, an item like that should start out weak, not giving the same amount of ap as a item 1058 for 200 less gold. not saying it needs reduced back to 0, but it should start with 5 stacks.

Be Kind Rewind1 votes

{quoted}

am I though? if you're playing an assassin like Katarina with a heavy lvl 6 power spike, all you have to do is roam and play safe enough that you wont die in cirumstances that you can control at all. and regardless of the difference in percentage, an item like that should start out weak, not giving the same amount of ap as a item 1058 for 200 less gold. not saying it needs reduced back to 0, but it should start with 5 stacks.

It does start with 5 stacks. If you do well enough without dying, for an early kill & assist, it becomes comparable to other AP items. (I.E. it finally becomes efficient.) If you continue to get many kills without dying, or barely ever dying, then it starts being worth the item slot it takes up. Keep in mind it delays Mana regen if bought early, or other offensive items if bought after Morello's/Athene's. I.E. it's a large gamble that only pays off well if you play extremely well. What's wrong with that?

I will note that it becomes a little...cheese-y? When it's core on someone like Janna - because her kit, by default, revolves around preventing death, it makes it a little bit too easy to maintain stacks in some scenarios. That being said, I don't think Mejai's makes her too overwhelming anyway (since she's been nerfed, at least), so I still think the item is fine.

I Main Swain1 votes

not sure what you mean by "it finally becomes efficient" considering that its starting cost and ap is more efficient than a needless.

if you know how to play a champ right you can work around mana problems, at the very least until you have enough to get a mana item. however, there are also some like kat and akali who don't have to worry about that at all.

and yes, I know that usually it only pays off if you play really well, but in the use of an assassin like kat or leblanc you don't have to play super well, just play fairly safe and wait until the situation is greatly in your favor (or just be like leblanc and do whatever the crap you want lol)

and I agree that mejais doesn't entirely make her overwhelming, but it makes it too easy to snowball because of its high amount of ap for a lower amount of gold combined with the stacking mechanic. imo it just needs a couple stacks taken off or a base ap nerf

Be Kind Rewind1 votes

{quoted}

not sure what you mean by "it finally becomes efficient" considering that its starting cost and ap is more efficient than a needless.

if you know how to play a champ right you can work around mana problems, at the very least until you have enough to get a mana item. however, there are also some like kat and akali who don't have to worry about that at all.

and yes, I know that usually it only pays off if you play really well, but in the use of an assassin like kat or leblanc you don't have to play super well, just play fairly safe and wait until the situation is greatly in your favor (or just be like leblanc and do whatever the crap you want lol)

and I agree that mejais doesn't entirely make her overwhelming, but it makes it too easy to snowball because of its high amount of ap for a lower amount of gold combined with the stacking mechanic. imo it just needs a couple stacks taken off or a base ap nerf

Needlessly large rod starts 108.8% efficient. Mejai's starts slightly below 100%. Also, Needless builds into many stronger items. Mejai's is a permanent investment unless it fails and you re-sell it for less gold.

I Main Swain1 votes

but mejais on an assassin who knows how to play their champ without dying a bunch can snowball early really well now. the problem isn't the late game because obviously needless builds into far better stuff in the long run. the problem is that it allows you to snowball faster and harder.

Be Kind Rewind1 votes

{quoted}

but mejais on an assassin who knows how to play their champ without dying a bunch can snowball early really well now. the problem isn't the late game because obviously needless builds into far better stuff in the long run. the problem is that it allows you to snowball faster and harder.

Sounds like the problem is a few assassins benefiting too much from it, then. Is there a reason all the other squishy mages should be punished by having it nerfed? Just deal with the problem champions.

Incidentally, they have been. Nerfs/changes for many assassins have been going through/have been being looked at.

Kat Head1 votes

item 3041 is way to risky of a item on Katarina, it is only good in games you do not need it in.

item 3041 is good on Lux and Janna and other extremely safe champions.

I Main Swain1 votes

mejais on Katarina isn't risky as long as you rush it, and you can get it stacked really easily most of the time. even if you just want it to help you and your team snowball, you can just take it and sell it once they start killing you more than once every 5 kills

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