Gnar and Reksai are a problem..

Fadedpf·Dec 31, 2014·34 votes·4,982 views

Both are impossible catch. (gnar jump +phage+ movespeed passive)(reksai movespeed and tunnels)

Both have INSANE utility (gnar q slow, 2 stuns)(reksai fairly easy to land knock up, uses ult to split and hurry back to fights)

Both get sustain (gnar transform) (reksai passive)

Both have insane base damage and good scaling

Both build pure damage with ONE tank item and still win all the time due to the points above.

These guys have annoying kits with little counterplay due to the fact that they can counterplay you with their avoid-ability and deceiving turn potential to the point where unless they are caught out they will probably win an honest fight.

25 Comments

Little PawsDec 31, 201417 votes

Gnar has a problem with anyone he can't immediately burst down. Tankier bruisers such as irelia, or Darius will shut him down if he tries to engage (even with his mega gnar). Ranged dps champs such as teemo or quinn will also such down gnar easily.

Rek'sai is shut down by soft cc if she is burrowed. A burrowed rek'sai who is silenced can't unburrow because that's technically an ability. Heavy burst will take her out just as efficiently as anyone else. If she burrows to try to heal, press the engage. She can only knock you up once every 10 seconds.

Jax will take on both rek'sai, and gnar, and will more than likely win the trades. Yes both of these people have strengths that shine when they are winning, but if theyre behind its difficult for them to catch up. Yes rek'sai is a bit oppressive top lane, which will likely lead to incoming nerfs for her, but they aren't a problem. Except for maybe in blind pick.

SaevumDec 31, 201410 votes

Even a good Rek'Sai is still killable. However, may only trade when she's at advantage. That's why you feel like she's op, but she isn't. Must still reserve when to and not to etc.

Gnar on the other hand:

A good Gnar can win a lane if you let him snowball/poke your top.
Also, if your top does not have any gap closer, it will be rough.
Overall, you gotta trade with mini Gnar, you cannot trade against Mega Gnar (not solo at least).
Hes not mana reliant, has split-push power (thats why hes top) he has enough mobility to avoid ganks and not burn flash, builds tanky and gets huge resistance buffs in Mega form, along other things that just make his overall game very good.
He's still a safe pick for Top. Good early, good mid, good late if build tank oriented. Opressive in lane (he has some nerfs but hey, he still there aint he?)

GloriousKaiserDec 31, 20146 votes

They can also build pure tank with 1 damage item and wreck.

DIVERSITY = OVERLOAD

JunkοDec 31, 20141 votes

Tbh Rek'sai needs the jung item+Hydra. Gnar needs Botrk and Trinity Force.

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 31, 20142 votes

I find it a little amusing how most people think Rek'Sai is OP, when it's actually quite the contrary. Rek'Sai is potentially the most balanced champion upon release in a long time, and that is saying something. Riot already gave nerfs to Gnar on the base damage of his boomerang AND his boulder, and Gnar's "sustain" only happens when he has full rage, and that doesn't happen instantly, and there is a 12 second waiting time until he can gain rage again. Rek'Sai's sustain is useful if she is burrowed, and she can't get away until she gets her tunnels, which is around level 2-3. She also needs fury in order to gain back health. For Rek'Sai's sustain to be more useful, you need to grab the spirit visage, and then a Hydra for when you aren't burrowed, and the jung item for better ganks and stuff. Gnar is easily stoppable because of how squishy he is early on, and he can start getting ahead once he grabs the BotRK and then the TriForce, or the bursty damage and DPS that Mini-Gnar excels in. Just my 2 cents.

Cale017Dec 31, 20145 votes

Gnar is DESIGNED to be hard to catch in his mini form but easy in his mega. Rek'Sai is DESIGNED to have unprecedented mobility in the jungle, and to outpace opponents in open areas. They aren't impossible, they just take more effort than most single players can put out without gap closers or CC.

Gnar has a slow that he has constantly available on his Q in either form. His two stuns? Entirely situational. There's no guarantee that they'll be up during a teamfight, and if your team decides to engage when there's a Gnar who's about to go Mega it's YOUR fault for not waiting until he's either cooled off a bit more or wasted his transformation by backing away and playing defensively. Rek'Sai has one source of CC: knockups. Knockups which decrease in effectiveness the farther away you are, and aren't good for much besides BRIEFLY hindering a foe, or a few foes, while her teammates collapse in. Aside from that and increased vision in burrowed form, Gnar doesn't have a whole lot of utility. Just a fuckload of mobility.

Gnar's transformation isn't sustain. It's a bit of extra health temporarily. Rek'Sai has pretty healthy sustain, but it's not going to be taking her from half health to full off of just burning Fury, and if she's burnt all her Fury to heal up betwen fights her damage potential drops.

Both have insane base damage and good scaling? I'm sorry but no. Much of Gnar's kit is BONUS AD, meaning that early on he's not dealing a whole lot with it. Rek'Sai's early base damage off of her Qs, knockups, and burrowed Qs is meh at best, and her E is pretty abysmal even with true damage until significantly ranked up.

I don't see you complaining about Aatrox, Xin Xiao, Vi, Shyvana, Wukong, or any of the other champions who can win off of a nearly full offensive build with only one defensive item. Hell even Garen can do that. Anyone with a full offensive build save one item is going to be dealing a fuckload of damage while lasting juuuuust long enough to be too tough to kill without help.

Gnar's counterplay is knowing when to engage on him and when not to. If he's close to full fury, don't engage. If he's wasted his transformation, go in on him. If you're laning against him and you don't take someone with a solid gap closer to jump to him and hit him once or twice before he leaps away, punishing the squishiness of his mini form, that's your bad. He's highly susceptible to being bullied out of lane, even a Darius, a melee champ, can fuck him up early on. Darius' Apprehend range is longer than Gnar's AA range for most of the early game. When he comes in to get farm, E AA W A Q when he's walking away. Congrats, you just chunked him for almost half of his life and he's bleeding down to less than half. Rek'Sai? She can survive ganks if she's in lane by virtue of her tunneled vision, but her early game is still pretty weak due to relatively low base damage on her skills. In addition her main damaging ability pushes the lane, which means that she's losing CS while putting herself in an unfavorable position, more open to ganks. Again, shut her down early and she can't do a whole lot. This is also why she's better in the jungle than in lanes, because her early damage is admittedly very meh without itemization supporting it.

Rengar Top LaneDec 31, 20141 votes

{quoted}

her early game is still pretty weak due to relatively low base damage on her skills. In addition her main damaging ability pushes the lane, which means that she's losing CS while putting herself in an unfavorable position, more open to ganks.

Have to disagree with this after playing Rek'Sai top for a bit. Most of my deaths came from mid->late game. Rarely die in top lane with Rek'Sai. The only two difficult games I have had with Rek'Sai top were against an Olaf and a Vayne. I feel she is not weak early game because of her advantage she gains at level 2 and 3.

Far as to her losing CS with her Q (you referred to it as her damaging ability), this is not a problem if you do not use it recklessly.

Cale017Dec 31, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Titanist Vortek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B7da4IIR,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2014-12-31T06:27:42.076+0000)

her early game is still pretty weak due to relatively low base damage on her skills. In addition her main damaging ability pushes the lane, which means that she's losing CS while putting herself in an unfavorable position, more open to ganks.

Have to disagree with this after playing Rek'Sai top for a bit. Most of my deaths came from mid->late game. Rarely die in top lane with Rek'Sai. The only two difficult games I have had with Rek'Sai top were against an Olaf and a Vayne. I feel she is not weak early game because of her advantage she gains at level 2 and 3.

Far as to her losing CS with her Q (you referred to it as her damaging ability), this is not a problem if you do not use it recklessly.

*Rek'lessly. Come on dude, that was an easy one and you just missed it entirely.

That's because Rek'Sai is safe. Not because she's a problem. Vayne, Quinn, and Teemo are all safe toplaners as well, provided the enemy doesn't have a gap closer and knows how to fight against a ranged champ as a melee. The ability to survive the early game due to a built in healing mechanic and to help set up ganks for the jungler with her knockup do not mean that she has an oppressive early game, and even if she does it's not because of the base damage of her abilities like OP is arguing, it's because of smart use of her kit. Which is something that anyone should be rewarded for.

If you aren't using it rek'lessly, then you also aren't spamming it as a form of harassment during trades, which again means that it's base damage isn't as much of a problem as OP is making it out to be.

The Red WardenDec 31, 20144 votes

Both are resourceless, sustaining champions that while having long range poke; they can also either escape any engage with a button press or just win almost any actual melee fight. I feel like the only point of them is too completely negate any reason a person has for picking actually melee champions .

Colgate MinuetteDec 31, 20143 votes

Gnar has the HUGE disadvantage of not being able to control his mega Gnar state, which can cause massive problems not only during team fights but in fights in general. Trying to chase that person with 10 health? Oh well guess what Mega Gnar is here to help by SLOWING YOU DOWN.

The Red WardenDec 31, 20141 votes

He still has his boulder to do that, and if they wouldn't have died from that you didn't have much of a chance anyway. He probably is the best anti engage champions in the game with multiple ways to jump away or transforming while suddenly receiving a mass heal/stat boost that also lets him destroy anyone that is in melee range

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 31, 20142 votes

So I guess Shyvana with her no cool down ultimate and giant leap is a problem too, because she gains armor boosts and her abilities become AOE in dragon form too. So I guess we gotta take care of this problem too >_< Lee Sin's nerf boat isn't setting sail just yet, I suppose.

Best Darius KRDec 31, 20143 votes

Rek'sai insane utility? Since when? She just deals damage. That's all She is a Shyvana on steroids. If they nerf her damage, she will be immediately trash tier

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 31, 20141 votes

They already preemptively nerfed Rek'Sai's AD and AP scaling ratio on the PBE, but nothing since 12/17 or the holiday season. We'll have to see what happens once the holiday passes

Lord O WhalesDec 31, 20143 votes

Cuz this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxTSJ6EuTQQ

Lean into itDec 31, 20142 votes

both are manaless cancer fuck manaless champions

stealthfox94Dec 31, 20142 votes

Gnar is mostly balanced Rek'sai on the other hand.

Im so bad yuckDec 31, 20142 votes

Both build pure damage with ONE tank item and still win all the time due to the points above.

Wait.... Wasn't the ongoing trend that Gnar 's favourite damage item is item 3143 ?

And Rek'Sai building full damage spells death for any squishy melee, but is melted by any ranged champion, so...

HaestroDec 31, 20141 votes

They are both getting nerfed for a reason.

ErijianDec 31, 20141 votes

I still love how Gnar can kite to infinity and beyond since the Slow effect lasts longer than the Boomerang CD at max rank.

Or you can just get a Frozen Mallet and create tears.

femméDec 31, 20141 votes

i think gnars double hop is a big problem with his kit because when will you ever NOT have minions in lane? his cc in mega form is little ridiculous for the damage he dishes out while doing it, rek'sai isn't that big of a problem if you have some way to avoid his burst he can get taken down easy.

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 31, 20142 votes

I think the only time you won't have minions in lane is when you're jungling, but that is mostly based on luck and where you are at the moment. Mega Gnar has great burst damage, but then again his ult is only used in mega form, and his other stun has a delay, and can be avoided unless you don't see it happening. Both have rather decent cool downs to not really need nerfs at the moment. Mega Gnar has burst, yes, but once that's over, he doesn't really have sustained damage that he can keep dealing when his combo is over, or when he is about to go into Mini Gnar. Mini Gnar only has the slow from his hop, a long cool down, and from his boomerang, a short cool down IF he catches it. Rek'Sai can be taken down easily, because she has low damage output early on, but given enough time, she can take down opponents rather quickly if she catches them away from defenses. Then again, both champions are different than the average champion that League has at the moment, and Gnar is more difficult than most top laners, but the learning curve is rewarding once you get acquainted with the little guy. Rek'Sai, while I haven't played as her, I have seen her played and gone against her, and she is pretty fair, since you can take down her tunnels, and you can see her coming. She can't see you, unless you are moving or are in the line of sight of an ally champion. Rek'Sai also needs some assistance to kill someone in the beginning, because she doesn't have CC other than her knock up, which is at its best at the center, where Rek'Sai is standing. My 2 cents, comment as you please.

B7dEADtEPyDec 31, 20141 votes

Yea Gnar and Rek'sai are pretty strong, maybe a few minor nerfs might make them a little more balanced. But on the other hand Gnar isn't the easiest champion to play. Rek'sai, not so sure, but in my opinion easy to shut down.

BudupopsDec 31, 20141 votes

Both are going to be played at worlds 2015 so riot doesnt care

mk DILLYJan 5, 20151 votes

I think Gnar is a victim of the same thing Kennen and Yasuo was a victim of:

Can be really frustrating to play against
Has a sudden burst in popularity
In reality, has a losing record in every division, including Diamond

A combination of frustrating to play against and a sudden burst in popularity gets champs nerfed everytime. But the problem is, Gnar is not really that OP - just really annoying to lane against. He has like a 48% winrate, including in higher divisions. Even Darien has a negative K/D ratio on him nearly every game now.

What they really need to do is change his kit to be less frustrating to play against while maintaining or even buffing him to have a 50% winrate. But they won't (just like Yasuo).

The only reason Gnar is viable and popular right now is his early game harass and teamfight presence (just like Kennen). They'll nerf that until he's not popular anymore, and Gnar will be left under powered, since they nerfed away the reason people picked him to begin with (just like Kennen).