If you really want to improve DynamicQ so much, start by killing the 1+4 premade groups

Mobius·Jun 1, 2016·141 votes·2,802 views

The 4 premades + 1 solo player don't make any sense, if you really care about solo players you should know that. - "But Mobius, if there's a 1+4 composition on your side, there's definitely another 1+4 team on the other side!"

Yes and no, because like they said in the video, there's a small chance that scenario doesn't happen, but that's not the main problem. The main problem is that the solo player is left out on his own, while the other 4 can communicate with voice chat and he doesn't. He's basically put in an coordinated environment, which is harder than the average game and** he can't impact the game as much as usual**, because they premade group has 80% of the team members, so they can dictate the flow of the game with much ease. In Dota you can join a ranked game as 1, 2, 3 or 5 players, but not 4, for the same reasons I just said, so the solo player cannot get abused or left on his own. I'm really convinced that player compositions of 2+3, 1+1+3, 1+1+1+2 are healthier than 1+4 groups for the game and I think you should change that.

42 Comments

ProfDrDeathJun 1, 201613 votes

Also, as the solo player, you have a higher chance to directly play vs a member of the opposing premade than you have to play vs the opposing solo player.

iamthegoatofwarJun 1, 20163 votes

this is not wrong.

Ashe JungleJun 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also, as the solo player, you have a higher chance to directly play vs a member of the opposing premade than you have to play vs the opposing solo player.

Except, the system does know your role, so it could, in theory at least, guarantee that you always play against a solo.

Karn BishopJun 1, 20164 votes

Pity riot never seems to have the time or money to do such a thing, look at how poor they are after all.

The DeckownerJun 2, 20161 votes

that will bring queue time to a whole new level

Ashe JungleJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B78dcEd3,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2016-06-02T04:03:37.244+0000)

that will bring queue time to a whole new level

Let me refer you to my above comment:

#in theory at least

KarKzzJun 2, 20161 votes

Do you want 2h queue time or something ?

Ashe JungleJun 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Do you want 2h queue time or something ?

[{quoted}](name=Ashe Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B78dcEd3,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2016-06-02T22:29:09.285+0000)

Let me refer you to my above comment:

#in theory at least

FovereJun 1, 20166 votes

It's not even a consequence of voice chat.

Imagine going out one friday night with three close friends and a random guy off the street. Who're you going to talk to all night?

If you are going into the game specifically to play with your friends, then you're going to play with your friends. You aren't going to play with the random person, cuz that's no fun, right?

I've had supports straight up leave lane 5 minutes in to go play with their premade jungle/top/whatever, leaving me to fend for myself. not because its a strategic decision, just because they want to run around and do things together.

There's a difference between playing League with friends and playing with friends in League. Most of these groups are doing the second thing, which is a colossal waste of time, and often unpleasant experience, for the solo player(s).

VoidreyJun 2, 20161 votes

ive never liked the voice chat idea. too many ragers in and swearers in my ears tend to hurt after awhile

NautodayJun 2, 20161 votes

Yeah, but playing to win is a different story. I know it may not be for most people, but I care just as much for the people outside of my premade as I do for those in my premade. Heck, sometimes I even prefer them.

ArtMurderJun 2, 20161 votes

I can actually attest to this. Me and 3 of my friends decided to play a normal game with dynamic queue. About 25-30 minutes in the game our toplane wukong, who was the solo man out, was making some big plays and helping us push hard. Thats when we all started to say "we had a wukong?!" It tooks us nearly 30 minutes into a team based game to notice one of our teammates. And we only paid attention because he was doing well.

FovereJun 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I can actually attest to this. Me and 3 of my friends decided to play a normal game with dynamic queue. About 25-30 minutes in the game our toplane wukong, who was the solo man out, was making some big plays and helping us push hard. Thats when we all started to say "we had a wukong?!" It tooks us nearly 30 minutes into a team based game to notice one of our teammates. And we only paid attention because he was doing well.

I played with friends quite a lot through Seasons 1-3. I understand the mentality. You don't intentionally exclude people but when you're being social with some guys over skype and stuff, your focus on the game becomes myopic. We don't even have to get into toxicity issues, bulling, blaming, whatever.

It's just incidental to the team dynamic with premades. You aren't going to be giving the same kind/amount of attention to the solo players as the guys in your group. Solo players will stand out only if things aren't going well and you're looking to blame game

notmebuthimJun 1, 20166 votes

I was matched with a 4 man premade, first thing they said in champ select was "Hay your the only one not premade so you better not suck!" Then they bet on me feeding first blood... They all fed then flamed me for the next 20-25 minutes. 4 people telling you to go kill your self. Really made me want to keep playing...............

Bobloser3555Jun 1, 20161 votes

Just go afk if they behave like that.

mikemcpartyJun 2, 20161 votes

Because that works.

The WhamboozlerJun 3, 20161 votes

Then you get auto-banned because all the bot who handles that nonsense knows is that you afk'ed. You wouldn;t even be able to report them, so they'll get off scott free. Hell, the enemy team will prob report you too and APOLOGIZE to the toxic premade that they had to have you on their team.

No man, the system kinda lets flamers and dickbags do what they want.

Bobloser3555Jun 3, 20161 votes

You don't get banned for afk, I never got banned for afk and I never heard of anyone getting banned for afk.

Mr FidoriJun 3, 20161 votes

That experience is unfortunate. But keep in mind that a single experience isn't really evidence for or against anything. I could recite the instances in which my 3 friends and I got matched with an equally toxic solo player, but it still wouldn't have any relevance to Dynamic Queue.

TufioJun 1, 20163 votes

yes, and then kill the 3made since they suck the same as 4made.

And them make sure 5man can only go vs 5 man.

KeevalroyJun 1, 20164 votes

"But wouldn't that be just like the old s-"
Gunshot.

"Riot, we assure you that this will improve Dynamic to a point that we'll be happy with."

Oakleaf RangerJun 2, 20161 votes

"Riot, our data shows that the majority of players enjoy dynamic queue"

"Well-" Clank

"I mean most of the people that took the survey in our dark ally said yes"

XeruonJun 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yes, and then kill the 3made since they suck the same as 4made.

And them make sure 5man can only go vs 5 man.

That would be bringing back the old system, which we can't have because uh...why again? Regardless, removing 4 + 1 scenarios would certainly help mend the problem a bit.

GrithokJun 2, 20163 votes

I played with my group of four last night. We had a solo Rammus, champ is irrelevant, really, just a reference point. We tried communicating to him with pings, we tried to play with him, but as soon as he figured out we were premade he just starting split pushing and hard farming. I am pretty sure he did it because he was resentful of playing with a premade. We talked some mean shit about it over comms, but we didn't type anything rude or questioning. Just basic stuff like summoner spell timers, and notifications for when we had tp advantage and such. I don't think we did anything aggressive in terms of supporting/not supporting his decisions. We leashed for him, and didn't take any of his camps, didn't ask about buffs. We just let him play it like it was solo queue, and as soon as he figured out we were 4 man, he just stopped playing it normally.

What I'm getting at is... You're right. 1+4 is bad. It's not something I will be doing again, as a four. Not because of how bad it is for the 1, but how bad it can be for the 4. It's just not worth it for either party.

FovereJun 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I played with my group of four last night. We had a solo Rammus, champ is irrelevant, really, just a reference point. We tried communicating to him with pings, we tried to play with him, but as soon as he figured out we were premade he just starting split pushing and hard farming. I am pretty sure he did it because he was resentful of playing with a premade. We talked some mean shit about it over comms, but we didn't type anything rude or questioning. Just basic stuff like summoner spell timers, and notifications for when we had tp advantage and such. I don't think we did anything aggressive in terms of supporting/not supporting his decisions. We leashed for him, and didn't take any of his camps, didn't ask about buffs. We just let him play it like it was solo queue, and as soon as he figured out we were 4 man, he just stopped playing it normally.

What I'm getting at is... You're right. 1+4 is bad. It's not something I will be doing again, as a four. Not because of how bad it is for the 1, but how bad it can be for the 4. It's just not worth it for either party.

For me it would have more to do with trying to make yourself useful in a situation where you are likely to feed because your team doesn't respond to you. As much as I prefer jungling when I am with a 4x premade, it also can be very frustrating to watch them ignore your ganks/pings and just wait for their other teammates

CithriaCJun 2, 20161 votes

I think rammus was trying to be useful but avoid feeding.

ParcevalJun 2, 20163 votes

I have zero problem being the 1 with a group of four. Zero. This is an overblown issue.

shyvJun 2, 20163 votes

i think this is definitely the best way to improve dynamic queue.

but why stop there?

remove 5 man queues as well. and trio queues. and duo queues.

then dynamic queue would be perfect

ARequestOfDeathJun 1, 20162 votes

I have actually managed to get on the good side of the 4 man premades by attempting to join their call

Avarosa Guide MeJun 2, 20162 votes

As a solo myself I'm fine with a 4 man premade on my side. Its not that hard to grasp their tempo and match their style as long as your champ can do it. When doing so you can use slightly excessive pinging in order to get their attention and portray your intention better. It may be because I've gotten good at matching someone's style by playing a lot of support but it honestly isn't that hard to see what your teammates are thinking with practice.

Mama SorakaJun 3, 20161 votes

This is always my response to the DQ v SQ complaints. As a support main I've been invited to so many groups lately as the odd man out that I legit can't keep track of who played what match with me and made what joke when.

Its gotten so bad that I had one group make a reference to a match I played with another group and I was like "Wait but you couldn't have been in that match??" and they had to remind me I told them about it the other day. Ugh. Never thought "too many friends" would be on my list of problems, haha.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Papa SlothyJun 2, 20161 votes

yea i'm fine w dq as long as I can have one other play to cling on too when the "kys" messages come

KederinJun 2, 20161 votes

Champion select with 4 premades on your team (same club tags). Game starts. They start communicating through chat in a foreign language and pings. You lose to a 4 premade comp on voicechat while being left alone trying to figure out if your team is flaming you in German. Feelsbadman

5050BSJun 2, 20161 votes

^ but flames are in Korean

MyozthirirnJun 2, 20161 votes

Step 1: Delete 4+1, they dont make any sense Step 2: Hard code so 5 is NEVER (not 0.001%, literaly never) put against anything thats not another 5 Step 3: Since they only play vs themselves, move all 5s to another Q Step 4(optional): Maybe move 3+2s to the 5s Q Step 5: Congratulations you either reached SoloQ or at least 1,2,3Q, everyone is happy except people forced into fillport Step 6: Make support enjoyable Step 7: World peace

UltîmaJun 2, 20161 votes

Premades existed before dynamic queue was a thing. In fact they were just as prevalent. Why are people complaining about this only after the implementation of DQ? Removing teams of friends from solo-Q will only make the queue times longer and exasperate some of the existing issues even more.

Sugar MantisJun 2, 20161 votes

I have single handedly lost games where I was the 1 while everyone else was a 4 premade. No matter how well you do, it is damn near impossible at any elo to carry 4 people who refuse to trust you and feed the enemy. It's not just one time, its numerous. I have lost at least 5 ranked games because of this. There have been numerous board posts of diamond players who have silver smurfs and can't escape silver due to how unpredictable it is, and this definitely adds fuel to the fire.

DeathTheHorsemanJun 2, 20161 votes

I personally got my smurf from unranked into gold 3 within 30 games. If any diamond out there is not capable of escaping silver he is either a support main or really crap at the game.

5050BSJun 2, 20161 votes

YES YES YES

It is just toxic in all it is.

As the Solo Q you can very often get in a 1+4 where the 4 are stupid little &*(%$ that will troll you and if you say one thing will all report you. They will often in champ select bully any role they want and threaten a 4 man report if you dont follow suit. Your only option is to Dodge (punishing me), Follow Suit (punishing me), Ignore them and do the role you Q'ed as getting trolled, reported and most likely taking a lose (punishing me).

ManiacalCoyoteJun 3, 20161 votes

Unless that solo person is playing Top as somebody like Nasus , who doesn't give a rat's @$$ about the rest of the team. He just farms, pushes top, and melts turrets.