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Moonfall does not need to be a damaging spell.

Bârd·Dec 13, 2019·1 votes·948 views

Swapping Moonfall with Lunar rush? Yeah that was a good call.

That's about as far as the good ideas go here.

Diana had a lot of problems, but "not enough damage" wasn't one of them.

She was already a champion who could 100-0 you in a blink of an eye, and y'all decided to add several hundred damage to her only non damaging spell.

You want to make Moonfall strong enough to warrant Ultimate state? Fine.

You could...

Give it cast range and make its location independent of Diana, letting Diana pull people towards a target location rather than just towards herself.
Give it cast range but keep it on Diana, allowing Diana to blink a short distance before the pull happens (like Akali's old Shroud Blink).
Increase the airborne duration, giving Diana a real hard CC ability.
Make it slow attack speed
Give it a 1 second silence
Increase the radius
Literally keep it the same as old Moonfall, same CD and everything, and let the changes to the rest of her kit shine

Just for the love of god don't give DIANA of all champions more damage.

8 Comments

YennDec 13, 20199 votes

..?

They literally gutted her damage on every ability but Q, including her passive. She does significantly less damage, even with her ult.

BârdDec 13, 20192 votes

Passive attack speed went up from 30-90 to 30-120, and got a passive 10-40. Passive procs lost 0.4 AP, base damage unchanged. It's worse for burst, but much better for clearing the jungle since a consistent attack speed steroid lets you clear faster. This means she hits level 3 quickly and at high HP, allowing her to go fuck with people.

Q does the exact same damage, but is infinitely better in the early game since Lunar Rush exists.

W lost 0.15 AP damage, base damage unchanged. It also gained a 10% HP ratio at the cost of 10 flat shield, a pretty big buff.

Rush lost 100 damage at max rank and 0.2 AP. In a double cast, that's 200 +.4 AP less damage. Having access to this pre-6 is still a big buff.

Moonfall, depending on how many people you hit, gained between 400 and 740 base damage and between 0.6 and 1.2 AP damage.

If you're hitting one guy with a full rotation and a passive proc, that's a net gain of 200 base damage and a loss of 0.15 AP damage.

You would need to either miss your ult entirely (how) or have 1334 AP for that to be a net loss in damage.

It only gets better, since Moonfall is AOE. You might look at the ability and say "oh, if you pull everybody you're gonna deal 740 +1.2 AP damage, that's pretty good", but that's not quite right. You're doing that to everybody, so it's actually five times that amount in relation to the teamfight.

If you're hitting even just two people with Moonfall, you're now putting out up to 770 more base damage and 0.75 AP more AP damage if you hit both pullled people with the damage (and nobody else). If you manage to catch everybody with Moonfall, this is a net gain of 3500 more base damage and 3.0 more AP damage if you hit all the pulled people with the damage.

YennDec 13, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Passive attack speed went up from 30-90 to 30-120, and got a passive 10-40. Passive procs lost 0.4 AP, base damage unchanged. It's worse for burst, but much better for clearing the jungle since a consistent attack speed steroid lets you clear faster. This means she hits level 3 quickly and at high HP, allowing her to go fuck with people.

Q does the exact same damage, but is infinitely better in the early game since Lunar Rush exists.

W lost 0.15 AP damage, base damage unchanged. It also gained a 10% HP ratio at the cost of 10 flat shield, a pretty big buff.

Rush lost 100 damage at max rank and 0.2 AP. In a double cast, that's 200 +.4 AP less damage. Having access to this pre-6 is still a big buff.

Moonfall, depending on how many people you hit, gained between 400 and 740 base damage and between 0.6 and 1.2 AP damage.

If you're hitting one guy with a full rotation and a passive proc, that's a net gain of 200 base damage and a loss of 0.15 AP damage.

You would need to either miss your ult entirely (how) or have 1334 AP for that to be a net loss in damage.

It only gets better, since Moonfall is AOE. You might look at the ability and say "oh, if you pull everybody you're gonna deal 740 +1.2 AP damage, that's pretty good", but that's not quite right. You're doing that to everybody, so it's actually five times that amount in relation to the teamfight.

If you're hitting even just two people with Moonfall, you're now putting out up to 770 more base damage and 0.75 AP more AP damage if you hit both pullled people with the damage (and nobody else). If you manage to catch everybody with Moonfall, this is a net gain of 3500 more base damage and 3.0 more AP damage if you hit all the pulled people with the damage.

You're completely missing the part where E is left at rank 1 for the majority of the game, so it's a massive loss for 80% of the game's duration.

Her attack speed is also completely useless unless you're playing in low elo, because she doesn't have any slow or CC to keep her target from disengaging, nor does she have the survivability to stay close even if she could.

Jungle Diana is so un-viable above Diamond that it's not even worth discussing. Any meta jungle will invade and kill you 24/7, because you can't duel them and have no escape, and you can't easily solo dragon. Her kit is missing a healing mechanic.

If I'm playing Udyr against Diana, I can just walk into her jungle at any point and auto her to death. She has no way to CC or slow me, she can't out-damage me, and she has no mobility that she can use to get away from me, unless she manages to jump to krugs, but that's extremely situational. The same applies to any actual jungle champion.

BârdDec 13, 20192 votes

First off, the fuck are you talking about with her attack speed? She has a pull and a 2 second, 40-60% slow, in addition to dash. She has no issues staying on top of her targets. Hell even if she couldn't do that it's god tier for pushing, since being an AP champion with high attack speed means towers just melt.

Second, she does have survivability. 180 (+.6 AP) (+.2 HP) worth of shield, plus a disable, plus the fact that if anybody survives long enough to fight back you're doing something wrong.

Third... so a champion with a long range dash, the ability to clear the jungle quickly, and tons of early burst damage is a bad jungler... ok sure buddy.

And then there's the idea that Diana does less damage for "80% of the game".

Level 4

Old

35 (+.8 AP) Passive
95 (+.7 AP) Q
66 (+0.6 AP) W

196 (+2.1 AP) damage. Assuming 33 AP from stat shards and Dorans Ring (since apparently she's a garbage jungler, lul), that's 265 damage, with no gap closer to enable use of P or W. If you put a second point in W instead of one in E, you can bump this up to 296 damage, but you still don't have a way to use it.

New

35 (+0.4 AP) Passive
95 (+.7 AP) Q
66 (+.45 AP) W
80 (+.8 AP) x2 E

276 (+2.35 AP) damage. Assuming 33 AP from stat shards and Dorans Ring, that's 364 damage, and you have the means to use it.

Level 6

Old

55 (+.8 AP) Passive
130 (+.7 AP) Q
66 (+.6 AP) W
200 (+1.2 AP) x2 R

351 (+3.3 AP) damage. Assuming 50 AP, that's 516 damage. Cool.

New

55 (+.4 AP) Passive
130 (+.7 AP) Q
66 (+.45 AP) W
80 (+.8 AP) x2 E
minimum 200 (+.6 AP) R

531 (+2.95 AP) damage. Assuming 50 AP, that's 679 damage.

Level 11

Old

120 (+.8 AP) Passive
200 (+.7 AP) Q
138 (+.6 AP) W
320 (+1.2 AP) x2 R

778 (+3.3 AP) damage. Assuming 150 AP, that's 1273 damage.

New

120 (+.4 AP) Passive
200 (+.7 AP) Q
138 (+.45 AP) W
80 (+.8 AP) x2 E
minimum 300 (+.6 AP) R

838 (2.95 AP) damage. Assuming 150 AP, that's 1280 damage.

That's basically the entire early game covered, and Diana just does more damage in the entire thing.

Later than this, sure. A 1-man ult is going to leave you doing less damage than old Diana, but it is really easy to land 2-3 man ults, and if you can perform that basic task you blow old Diana out of the water even in later fights.

WoonStruckDec 13, 20191 votes

I don't think people understand that the intent of the change is to push her in a more healthy direction where she doesn't 1 shot you with her "now basically targeted but with all the advantages of being a skillshot" Q if it lands.

Old Diana was a ball of stats with no interaction outside of using some sort of escape to dodge Q, if you happen to have one. Due to Spellbinder, even if you used it, she could still usually 1 shot you with a single R if she missed Q, or even just keep chasing until Q was off CD and 1 shot you anyway.

There was no real gameplay. Land Q? Free kill. Cool.

Even if Diana turns out to be underpowered atm (She's not. People just need to adjust their builds to accommodate her new strengths.), the buffs she'll get will probably be in line with allowing her to function as a tankier AP bruiser that doesn't basically point-and-click one shot you.

Considering she has over 3x the pickrate she used to, the 50%+ winrate that she's maintaining is quite good. And people aren't even using Conqueror on her; they're still trying to cling to their braindead gameplay using electrocute and building full damage in hopes of 1 shotting people instantly. Smart people have started building RoA, Zhonya's, and Nashors as her core.

Diana isn't overpowered now. That's what people are upset about. Its like pre-rework Aatrox all over again. Was massively overbuffed prior to being reworked, then people were upset when they couldn't abuse it anymore.

YennDec 13, 20192 votes

{quoted}

First off, the fuck are you talking about with her attack speed? She has a pull and a 2 second, 40-60% slow, in addition to dash. She has no issues staying on top of her targets. Hell even if she couldn't do that it's god tier for pushing, since being an AP champion with high attack speed means towers just melt.

Second, she does have survivability. 180 (+.6 AP) (+.2 HP) worth of shield, plus a disable, plus the fact that if anybody survives long enough to fight back you're doing something wrong.

Third... so a champion with a long range dash, the ability to clear the jungle quickly, and tons of early burst damage is a bad jungler... ok sure buddy.

And then there's the idea that Diana does less damage for "80% of the game".

Level 4

Old

35 (+.8 AP) Passive

95 (+.7 AP) Q

66 (+0.6 AP) W

196 (+2.1 AP) damage. Assuming 33 AP from stat shards and Dorans Ring (since apparently she's a garbage jungler, lul), that's 265 damage, with no gap closer to enable use of P or W. If you put a second point in W instead of one in E, you can bump this up to 296 damage, but you still don't have a way to use it.

New

35 (+0.4 AP) Passive

95 (+.7 AP) Q

66 (+.45 AP) W

80 (+.8 AP) x2 E

276 (+2.35 AP) damage. Assuming 33 AP from stat shards and Dorans Ring, that's 364 damage, and you have the means to use it.

Level 6

Old

55 (+.8 AP) Passive

130 (+.7 AP) Q

66 (+.6 AP) W

200 (+1.2 AP) x2 R

351 (+3.3 AP) damage. Assuming 50 AP, that's 516 damage. Cool.

New

55 (+.4 AP) Passive

130 (+.7 AP) Q

66 (+.45 AP) W

80 (+.8 AP) x2 E

minimum 200 (+.6 AP) R

531 (+2.95 AP) damage. Assuming 50 AP, that's 679 damage.

Level 11

Old

120 (+.8 AP) Passive

200 (+.7 AP) Q

138 (+.6 AP) W

320 (+1.2 AP) x2 R

778 (+3.3 AP) damage. Assuming 150 AP, that's 1273 damage.

New

120 (+.4 AP) Passive

200 (+.7 AP) Q

138 (+.45 AP) W

80 (+.8 AP) x2 E

minimum 300 (+.6 AP) R

838 (2.95 AP) damage. Assuming 150 AP, that's 1280 damage.

That's basically the entire early game covered, and Diana just does more damage in the entire thing.

Later than this, sure. A 1-man ult is going to leave you doing less damage than old Diana, but it is really easy to land 2-3 man ults, and if you can perform that basic task you blow old Diana out of the water even in later fights.

Nice, let's compare the full damage (which is not enough to score a kill) without considering the fact that the new kit involves a 100 second cooldown. Good post.

WoonStruckDec 13, 20191 votes

You're literally like the Aatrox "mains" that were upset that they couldn't abuse his over-buffed state anymore when he got reworked.

If you have half a brain you'll realize this direction, regardless of whether she's weaker atm (she's not), is healthier for her.

She was basically point-click-delete before.

Abibyama IIDec 13, 20191 votes

Are you talking about the soft reworked one where they basically buffed his numbers before his actual full rework

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