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Kog doesn't actually function that well as a spell-weaver

Rebonack··4 votes·848 views

's what Riot was trying to push him as after the rework. A spellweaver like Ez or Corki, but with a stronger late game.

Disregarding the fact that 'spellweaver' isn't a champ niche so much as it is 'dude who buys Trinity', Kog really isn't that great of a spell-weaver to begin with. Allow me to explain why by way of contrast.

Ezreal is a great spellweaver because his Q allows him to make full use of Sheen from long range. Cool.

Corki is a great spellweaver because he invests in very little attack speed, allowing him to lob spells between basic attacks without losing any DPS.

Kog on the other hand, due to the existence of Rageblade and the fact that his W only scales meaningfully with attack speed, wants to hit 2.5% IAS (which he can do with Rageblade, Runes, and two other IAS items of his choice) and lay down some pain. Now, while he's laying down said pain pausing for half a second to lob an Ult is going to be reducing his DPS in many situations.

So this got me to thinking.

What if Kog's Ult didn't interrupt his basic attacks? As in, Kog can continue spewing out acid even while lobbing artillery shells into the sky. Then he would actually be able to take full advantage of both forms of DPS his kit offers without them stepping on each others toes.

16 Comments

BluePolarizer3 votes

What rework? It's a revert. Kog back then bought Triforce as an early spike due to the meta. It might not be the best way to play him now.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

Triforce was different back then

LostFr0st2 votes

Kog doesn't need more power, the meta just isn't his yet. He's very strong in the right conditions. Just alternate weaving Q E and R. Kog's Q is longer range than Ez's anyways, but it's a longer cd so can't just use Q.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Kog doesn't need more power, the meta just isn't his yet. He's very strong in the right conditions. Just alternate weaving Q E and R. Kog's Q is longer range than Ez's anyways, but it's a longer cd so can't just use Q.

I agree. Kog doesn't really need more power. He's quite strong right now, or at least strong enough for his mains to do well with him. But as usual since he doesn't actually do anything unique for his team whilst bringing only damage to the table he's never going to be very popular unless he's horrifically over-tuned.

I wouldn't mind seeing him get a new Passive that more or less grants this effect. Spells don't interrupt his basic attacks and basic attacks don't interrupt his spells. It would make his kit flow much smoother and might even allow more power to be spread around elsewhere. After all, in spite of all the hate it gets Kog's self-destruct is extraordinarily powerful.

LostFr0st1 votes

I give it a month or so. Once the tank update rolls around people will be begging for first-pick/ban Koggles, and then for nerfs due to his shred Q.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

I give it a month or so. Once the tank update rolls around people will be begging for first-pick/ban Koggles, and then for nerfs due to his shred Q.

This topic isn't about how balanced Kog is or isn't.

It's about how awkward his Ult feels to use at higher attack speed.

LostFr0st1 votes

Nearly every champ has a spell like that. His ult is for when they're too far to auto or in brush.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Nearly every champ has a spell like that. His ult is for when they're too far to auto or in brush.

I don't disagree. Kog's kit just feels really stilted, is all. If he were able to basic attack while ulting it would improve the feel of both pretty significantly. Such an effect could even be a new passive for him if we're worried about adding power to his kit. The self destruct, despite being derided, is quite strong.

LostFr0st1 votes

I'm pretty sure letting him basic attack while ulting would feel really stupid tbh. It's cute that he scrunches to E, stretches to Q, and tip-toes to ult. It feels cool to play, and his kit is very visceral to use.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure letting him basic attack while ulting would feel really stupid tbh. It's cute that he scrunches to E, stretches to Q, and tip-toes to ult. It feels cool to play, and his kit is very visceral to use.

It would look weird, wouldn't it?

Would probably require an actual VGU to do it right. Something like giving Kogger's an organic cannon on his back akin to Battlecast Kog. Cannon for skills, spits basic attacks. Would require quite a bit of animation work to get it looking right.

LostFr0st1 votes

I hate Battlecast Koggles' animations :( You'd probably get a better feel for if Kog players would like it or not if you posted this on the Kog'maw subreddit.

Moooose32 votes

He isn't a spell weaver, he never was a spell weaver. You might actually be high. His spells all have long cooldowns except for his ult, which costs more mana the more you use it. He never is, never was, and was never meant to be a spell weaver. He was a hyper carry building bork triforce before, then 1000000 attack speed, now back to bork triforce. Please tell me how auto attack focused play is considered a spell weaver.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

He isn't a spell weaver, he never was a spell weaver. You might actually be high. His spells all have long cooldowns except for his ult, which costs more mana the more you use it. He never is, never was, and was never meant to be a spell weaver. He was a hyper carry building bork triforce before, then 1000000 attack speed, now back to bork triforce. Please tell me how auto attack focused play is considered a spell weaver.

I agree with you. I'm just quoting Riot here.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Tri force offers AS/MS/Shen/Phage/CDR

Usually you rush Tri, so when he gets it early he spikes off it cause he can use his ult to get use out of the shen, as he won't have that high of AS yet.

End game it may not be as useful but it allows him to have a bit of mid game power before he enters his end game state. It still helps though with his abilities. E>AA>W>Q>AA>AA>R>AA they should be dead mid game.

ZerglingOne1 votes

Can I just say how much I absolutely vehemently hate the new class terms?

Diver, vanguard, spellweaver, marksman, and all that other stupid shit can just burn in the kiln of my contempt.

He's just an ADC. Just fucking call him an ADC. OooOOOooo he has spells he can cast between his attacks.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Can I just say how much I absolutely vehemently hate the new class terms?

Diver, vanguard, spellweaver, marksman, and all that other stupid shit can just burn in the kiln of my contempt.

He's just an ADC. Just fucking call him an ADC. OooOOOooo he has spells he can cast between his attacks.

Kog isn't an attack damage carry. Attack damage he builds is incidental to making his OnHit damage frightening. Since we're being pedantic about stuff, I guess.

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