How to buff Garen

JerulEon·Aug 6, 2016·3 votes·597 views

Garen has had some low winrates as of late. I feel like his villain mechanic could be emphasized even more to make him stronger while still adhering to his core theme.

Perhaps, every kill or assist or maybe even ult execute on a villain should give you a permanent stack of additional % health damage on Villainy. This would encourage Garen players to make risky plays to roam and have a greater impact in teamfights by focusing the villain.

Plus, collecting a bounty on a villain's head should give a reward right?

17 Comments

Critmaster GarenAug 6, 20163 votes

what id rather like to see is infinite scaling on his w.

they basically trashed his early game to give him better lategame scaling. i wish theyd actually give him a strong lategame then. he still seems to powerspike mostly midgame and then fall off hard.

they could give him permanent 1 resistance w stacks for takedowns on the villain.

his w is the only ablity that doesnt have interaction with the villain passive yet. and considering wit would be like 10 armor/mr lategame tops, it could be a fun buff thats not too much for him.

or give him a similar scaling like threshs old passive used to work. meaning it starts out with .5 resistances per minion and then goes down to .1 or .2 at 30 stacks and stays at that value.

YSeT9iEzJKAug 6, 20162 votes

Sounds good, gives Garen atleast infinite scaling tank so even if he going to remain the one dimensional champ he is currently, atleast he gains scaling tank to be rewarded for having little to no CC.

I like it

PermabannedGarenAug 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AxPMVoir,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-06T09:44:03.829+0000)

what id rather like to see is infinite scaling on his w.

they basically trashed his early game to give him better lategame scaling. i wish theyd actually give him a strong lategame then. he still seems to powerspike mostly midgame and then fall off hard.

they could give him permanent 1 resistance w stacks for takedowns on the villain.

his w is the only ablity that doesnt have interaction with the villain passive yet. and considering wit would be like 10 armor/mr lategame tops, it could be a fun buff thats not too much for him.

or give him a similar scaling like threshs old passive used to work. meaning it starts out with .5 resistances per minion and then goes down to .1 or .2 at 30 stacks and stays at that value.

Garen is already by a fair margin the tankiest juggernaut short of a full tank Mordekaiser. His problem isn't that he isn't tanky enough. His probably is that despite having a smaller threat range than Darius or Illaoi he actually does less damage if not attacking the Villain, and that he has no sustain in combat.

Making him tankier won't fix any of his problems.

Critmaster GarenAug 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Garen is already by a fair margin the tankiest juggernaut short of a full tank Mordekaiser. His problem isn't that he isn't tanky enough. His probably is that despite having a smaller threat range than Darius or Illaoi he actually does less damage if not attacking the Villain, and that he has no sustain in combat.

Making him tankier won't fix any of his problems.

considering that he is in the state that he is almost entirely because of nerfs to defensive items, a lategame buff to his defenses makes the most sense.

its just compensation for what was removed.

i mean look at all the items theyve removed 100 health off. veteran scars gives 100 to 120 health less by lategame aswell. then there is the mr nerf to spirit visage. if you used to get item 3053 then all the health nerfs end up as double nerfs, since it also reduces the effective shield strength additionally.

so yea, making him slightly more tanky lategame for the fact that hes significantly less tanky than a couple month ago makes very much sense imo.

ThewhitebrowAug 6, 20162 votes

I am a Garen main myself, and my god he is a crap champion; and to be honest, I would take Garen "pre-rework" over the current version all day (especially considering out of the 4 juggernauts that got reworked, Garen was the only one that not only was never played competitively, but I am sure not a competitive team even thought about it) (slow, no cc, no thx)! At least back then his Q would give him more movement speed, and his melee silence would at least scale! Not to mention getting rid of tenacity on the W was a joke. He can break 1 slow with his Q then he is stuck standing around until flash is up. . . This is easily attributing to his garbage win rates in a "meta" where its rylai's and frozen mallets and ice gaunts on everyone and not to mention at 1 CC ability Garen, has the least in the game where as just about everyone else has multiple forms of CC. Not to mention, as I have stated on another post, his R seems to be bugged for me often. I have enemies going on killing sprees that don't end up villans.... C'mon man!

What can be done about it?

I saw someone somewhere else suggest making his Q do this new grounded form of CC too. That would be interesting. Maybe even during the duration of the Q active you are immune to all slows. Or just make the silence scale like it used too and for the love of god make him be able to actually catch people again with his movement speed being greater on the Q. . . As for his W . . . I don't know why there is a cap on his scaling. I mean is there any other champ that actually has a cap (Not nasus or sion or veigar, etc)? Kinda dumb. And why not allow his W, which atm is like a 20+ sec cooldown, be able to break CC or, as before, give some tenacity. I think the E is fine, I think the R is bugged but fine. But god damn! This Champ is just a slow meat shield, who can use Flash plus ult to delete someone who is at 20% health before he dies, and is then worthless for 5 minutes. I mean really just think about it. . . Who the hell does Garen actually do well with if both players are of equal skill? The only champ I face in Plat against my Garen, that I don't cringe over how awful the match up is going to be is maybe Poppy. Everyone else is just a damn, and even she gets a Ranged auto every few seconds!

c'mon man!

JerulEonAug 6, 20161 votes

LOL man I like your suggestions. In plat, most match ups are even or unwinnable that is true XD

Surprisingly, I've been able to climb with him because he's just really reliable and has great waveclear/aoe damage. Honestly, if his Q gave him slow resistance or immunity I would jizz my pants. Permaslows are everywhere and everyone has dashes so this would help him gap close while not giving him any CC. His W is kinda useless too like you said. I wish the active would lower to like 15s maxed out, scale to 50% damage resistance, or give tenacity.

ThewhitebrowAug 16, 20162 votes

Whats crazy is on the 6.16 patch play test forum topic (or whatever the title), one of the Riot people said that Garen does not look to be getting any buffs as they consider him "very strong". . . . I mean do these guys play the game or the champs? There are even rumors out there of a Riven buff though? What the actual? I am in shock that despite the bad place the champ is in during this game's current state and declining win rate among us scrubs they refuse to touch the champ. But God forbid the ranged, tank, cc machine, % health dmg dealing champ known as Gnar falls out of competitive play the champ gets buffs asap and is now the undisputed best top lane champion in the game. Like I said.... shocked.

Critmaster GarenAug 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Whats crazy is on the 6.16 patch play test forum topic (or whatever the title), one of the Riot people said that Garen does not look to be getting any buffs as they consider him "very strong". . . . I mean do these guys play the game or the champs? There are even rumors out there of a Riven buff though? What the actual? I am in shock that despite the bad place the champ is in during this game's current state and declining win rate among us scrubs they refuse to touch the champ. But God forbid the ranged, tank, cc machine, % health dmg dealing champ known as Gnar falls out of competitive play the champ gets buffs asap and is now the undisputed best top lane champion in the game. Like I said.... shocked.

those are not rumors.

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html#balance

there are some awaited nerfs for a couple adc, but theyre also buffing a bunch of champions who are already legitemately strong, and not just perceived as strong. i mean there were brand buffs on the pbe for crying out loud. looking at his winrate and playrate, hes not op, but nowhere near in the position where he needs buffs.

DynikusAug 6, 20161 votes

I don't think adding more % health true damage is a healthy way to fix Garen, no. as is it's already a frustrating mechanic.

TheOvermindAug 6, 20161 votes

How to buff garen:

You don't

BloodyTomponAug 6, 20161 votes

That makes Garen's core problem worse. The discrepancy between high elo (where he isn't that good) and low elo (where he is good). At low elo there are more deaths and kills so this would make him more powerful there than it would at high elo, where games can be won or lost with very few kills and deaths.

YSeT9iEzJKAug 6, 20161 votes

except even at low elo is win rate is below 50%.

BloodyTomponAug 6, 20161 votes

I'm not against buffing him if he is weak, I'm against buffing him in a way that reinforces a core structural problem.

DarkRitualAug 6, 20161 votes

How to buff Garen? MORE BUSHES!

RevaliAug 6, 20161 votes

a minor change i'd like is when garen activates his w, he takes a little extra reduced damage from the villain, this'll give him more tankiness against those marksmen villains that get all the peels.