Opinion: Shield bash should be a Keystone

Kelg·Oct 26, 2018·37 votes·12,674 views

Seems like it would be neat for a Keystone, just adjust the stats accordingly, it could give you a small gap closer like Ekko's e when it activates to make it more keystone-like. Replace bone plating with a tenacity rune or something. (Maybe just move legend: tenacity here and make something else in precision?)

Edit: Since a lot of people are saying it can't be used by everyone, maybe cut back on increasing the numbers and add a way to get shielding from this keystone. Possibly get a small shield(5% MHP?) when an active item is used?

59 Comments

ModAcademy KaynOct 26, 20188 votes

I enjoy how the title is simply "Opinion.".

I like this.

Done25Oct 26, 20187 votes

It's way too niche to be a keystone.

KelgOct 26, 201824 votes

{quoted}

It's way too niche to be a keystone.

You could say the same thing about guardian, klepto, glacial, etc.

RalanrOct 26, 20182 votes

Klepto niche? What?

ŚhunpoOct 26, 201812 votes

If it weren't niche why doesn't everyone run it? Why don't I run it on Kat?

DeathBurstOct 26, 20181 votes

Because that's not what "niche" mean? There are 15 Keystones in the game, even if they were each perfectly equally used, that would mean less than 7% for each Keystone.

ŚhunpoOct 26, 20181 votes

Klepto is legitimately only used on champs with on-hit abilities....and even then most of them (apart from Ezreal) have alternatives to it, making it only really good in SOME situations, thereby making it a niche choice. Although I will say that's it's core for Ezreal.

DeathBurstOct 26, 20181 votes

That's a more reasonable argument, but that's totally not what you said in your previous post.

ŚhunpoOct 27, 20181 votes

I didn't think I'd have to spell it out since we all play the game enough to know who uses what rune and why. But fair enough I suppose.

KelgOct 26, 201815 votes

{quoted}

Klepto niche? What?

who really uses it besides EZ/GP and maybe Illaoi. I'd say it's niche.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 201810 votes

The difference is that every champion is able to use guardian, klepto, glacial. But just tanks and bruisers with shields are able to use shield bash.

The only keystone with a similar restriction is aftershock, but hard CC is more common among tanks than a shield. There are quite some tanks relying on healing or increased tank stats as a tank steroid instead of shields. Alistar Amumu Braum Gragas Maokai Rammus Sejuani Zac Leona

Meanwhile after Nunus rework, every tank in the game has hard CC to trigger Aftershock.

ZeromatsuOct 26, 20182 votes

Technically everyone can use it, because:

1.) You don't have to cast the shield yourself 2.) There are items that give shields.

You can't use Aery's shield on allies on every champion too.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20182 votes

Relying on allies shielding you to get the benefit is not reliable, tho.

And I doubt that it's worth to take a rune that just function with specific completed items, which have a CD that is 10 times as big as the CD of said rune.

SociaI JusticeOct 26, 20182 votes

having a lulu or janna as your support is a very reliable way to get the benefit for the adc.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20182 votes

Meh, not worth it over taking other runes in my opinion. Especially since an adc doesn't build health to increase the damage even further.

SociaI JusticeOct 26, 20181 votes

eh depends on the damage of the rune, the janna and lulu shields are often much larger than that of most tanks and bruisers with lower cds as well. the most hilarious thing will still be steraks sion popping you for 2k with this rune though.

Iota ThetaOct 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=SociaI Justice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmMHcLET,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-26T12:02:06.621+0000)

eh depends on the damage of the rune, the janna and lulu shields are often much larger than that of most tanks and bruisers with lower cds as well. the most hilarious thing will still be steraks sion popping you for 2k with this rune though.

For reference, before the lowered the base damage on it, an ADC with no bonus health at level 18 needed a 717 point shield to hit 100 bonus damage (which was DMP’s damage). Likely need a stronger shield now.

SociaI JusticeOct 27, 20181 votes

well i'd imagine if it was a keystone the damage would be quite a bit higher.

WAZZZUP500Oct 26, 20181 votes

ooof taking resolve tree on an adc

DeathBurstOct 26, 20182 votes

Well, now that you're not forced to take HP with it since stats are independent, it's actually pretty good. Take that + Revitalize with a shielding support and you're unkillable with very little sacrifice in damage.

WAZZZUP500Oct 26, 20181 votes

Well, don't that beat all.

Too bad mordekaiser hates e-girl supports.

AlzonOct 26, 20181 votes

Too bad Shield Bash just straight up doesn’t do anything on him.

DeathBurstOct 26, 20181 votes

Actually, Blitz or Thresh work better, but Enchantresses are not strictly bad with Morde either, especially those who have hard CC. Nami or Janna work decently well.

WAZZZUP500Oct 30, 20181 votes

Nah, the problem with e-girls is that mord needs someone w for that dot. Also, engage supps can give him movement speed towards his target. Now I know that some enchantresses can give ms, but they have to use their own abilities to do so. Also, mord doesn't need shield or heals from another source. He provides his own, all he needs is cc and peel.

DeathBurstOct 30, 20181 votes

Nami Jana can stay behind you in range for the W. Once again, I'm not saying they're optimal, there's no denying that Blitz/Leona/etc. are better, I'm just saying they are viable.

Cait MainOct 26, 20182 votes

not every tank has hard cc DrMundo .

Allies can shield you as well as items. With locket being an item that shields based off hp literally any tank that builds hp can use it.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20187 votes

I know, people are sick of this argument, but Dr. Mundo is not a tank. He is a juggernaut, which is a fighter subclass.

And I don't know if it's really worth it to use a rune that just works if you have a specific completed item that has 10 times the CD of the rune.

Cait MainOct 26, 20181 votes

My point on the shield bash is its not just self shields from abilities. If you have a locket it can be used. If you have a janna or karma then it can be used. Its a rune that can literally be used by anyone just like aery.

Will it be good is a different question but I can see a world where its used for the damage like on any adc with a shielding support. It could even be used with a shiv dusk stormrazor yi with 4 shielders so he can 1 shot champs with 1 q like dark harvest.

DeathBurstOct 26, 20181 votes

Mundo is not a Tank. Same as Nasus or Illaoi or Garen, they don't have hard CC and they are not Tank either.

And well, technically Yorick has a hard CC, but it's so unreliable that you shouldn't count on it either.

DeathBurstOct 26, 20181 votes

Nasus, Viktor, Swain, Vlad, Udyr. It's probably viable on Urgot too, if you don't want to bother with all the swapping required with Spellbook.

JaspersOct 26, 20185 votes

Anyone can get a shield due to items and other champs. What about swapping Shield Bash and Aftershock because not everyone can use Aftershock? Remove the damage aspect of Aftershock and make it just a small MR Armour increase when you CC someone, like an engage safety tool. Then add shield bash as a Keystone and amp it up a little.

RemurinOct 26, 20182 votes

Yeah, I really like that idea.

Warlord RhinarkOct 26, 20182 votes

It'd be too similar to Grasp.

We already have the problem of Aery being too similar to Arcane Comet.

PheobosOct 26, 20182 votes

Sounds like a better plan than it being a basic rune. Can we make this replace guardian? and make guardian a basic rune?

ZaFishboneOct 26, 20182 votes

The gap closer should be more like Ekko E

KelgOct 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The gap closer should be more like E

Yeah I meant something like that, but didn't know what ability of Ekko's that was.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20181 votes

I disagree. They would have to heavily increase the damage of it to warrant its use over Aftershock. And it is a purely offensive rune, I wouldn't consider this a good keystone for a defensive tree. Every other keystone in Resolve has some defensive added to it.

Aftershock: Increased tank stats (armor + MR) Guardian: Shielding you and an ally Grasp of the Undying: Healing

FefnilOct 26, 20181 votes

It is not only offensive. Shield bash also increases remaining shield size by 10%. It depends of course on how much you're focused, but it's still a defensive effect nonetheless.

Chembaron YamadaOct 26, 20181 votes

Did they change it? Because the last iteration of it I saw was this: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MGlBmQAMRuE/W8-RJjnLQsI/AAAAAAABJcc/swOfCknecwMQ4ZqlHredwhfNNbX4MEQ2QCLcBGAs/s1600/shieldbash.png

And this version says it is purely offensive, no additional shield granted.

EDIT: Ok, looked up the PBE and they really changed it. MB then.

Need Gold 4 TentOct 26, 20181 votes

It would be interesting if they buffed it and made it a keystone: Shields are X% stronger (on self - no abusing from lulu/janna egurls) with the damage proc it had now. This would include Sterak's and other champ shields on you.

Then, they could replace its slot with a suitably nerfed aftershock with no damage for people who want early resistances.

5050BSOct 26, 20181 votes

So even more toxic Urgot and Sion top?

AnghellousOct 26, 20181 votes

Giving tanks mobility? Dear lord no.

KelgOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Giving tanks mobility? Dear lord no.

They already had it buddy item 3800 item 3742 item 2065 item 3152

AnghellousOct 26, 20181 votes

Movespeed != Mobility. IDK a tank that builds protobelt.

KelgOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Movespeed != Mobility. IDK a tank that builds protobelt.

Whats stopping Cho from building protobelt? It gives all the stats he likes. Most tanks would still prefer aftershock over this rune anyway.

AnghellousOct 26, 20181 votes

It's a pittance in terms of HP compared to what he already gets and needs.

If he's building full tank, he needs some more resistances.

If it's damage you want, he already does enough. AP itemization for him is an all or nothing type deal for him (burst targets with your kit or don't even try for that and just build tanky).

ThilmerOct 26, 20181 votes

Wait, you mean that thing is not a keystone?

It's too good to not be a keystone, you can literally use it in a ton of different champions without sacrificing anything.

Iota ThetaOct 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wait, you mean that thing is not a keystone?

It's too good to not be a keystone, you can literally use it in a ton of different champions without sacrificing anything.

It’s damage is lower than most keystones, even with higher bonus hp and shield strength. Grasp is still better and does more stuff, as do Aftershock and Guardian.