"Win Rates Don't Matter"

PentaJump·Nov 24, 2014·4 votes·1,247 views

"WW has the highest win rate in the game, what a broken POS!" I swear to God, this community is so guilty of changing their argument in order to match their feelings.

15 Comments

KzooCrasherNov 24, 20147 votes

Or the community has a diverse population of people with varying views and opinions.....

Dig DuxNov 24, 20141 votes

here let me further reinforce your argument since you are clearly thinking exactly what I am thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

see what I did there.

KzooCrasherNov 25, 20141 votes

I love how you linked something that has nothing to do with my comment :/

Sire HippingtonNov 24, 20144 votes

winrates allone don't matter, and especially low winrates don't tell all that much, but winrates combined with pickrates show a bit more.

WW not only got a high winrate, but also very high pickrate, and thats usually a sign that he's generally a bit to strong, as not only the dedicated mains or people that use him as situational pick in specific setups perform well with him, but also every scrup that jumps on the hype-train.

if we look at lee or vayne(both in the top 3 pickrate), both have below 50% winrate as many of those who pick them don't really know how to play them and thus fail. If someone picks WW and doesn't really know how to play him, he still does rather well.

winrate + pickrate still isn't to reliable on judging the power of a champ, but it gives a good hint. Going with the fact that WWs winrate was rather high throughout nearly entire season 4(pick rate was lower though) and that the preseason changes all go in WWs Favor, the conclousion that he's op right now seems plausible. The harder jungle makes ganking in the earlygame hard and risky for most champions, so mister afk-farm till 6 doesn't hurt ur team that much, as the enemy jungler won't apply much pressure aswell. It also favors sustain-junglers like WW as they can constantly clear the jungle while still beeing healthy enough to help their team. Strong dragon cleares are also favord due to the higher importance of dragon, and WWs high sustain+aoe AS-buff helps alot for dragon. Without that much early jungle pressure, laneing phase tends to go longer which help lategame scaling champs like WW, as he got more time to farm his core items. It also helps champions that are strong in picking single targets cause enemys won't group as early, and WW is a god in catching single targets. Last but not least, Devourer and challangeing smite both are incredible strong for on-hit champions, and WW is one of the best on-hit scaling champions out there.

Knight DevoutNov 24, 20142 votes

just one thing. Another factor to put in to evaluation in those analysis is how steep the learning curfe for the champion is.

In the case of Warwick, we have a champion really easy to pick up, which also factors in keeping his winrate high even if players just pick him because of fotm reasons. This doesn't invalidate your argument, of course, but it should be factored in.

Sire HippingtonNov 24, 20141 votes

I totally agree here.

DiostukosNov 24, 20143 votes

I don't think winrate means everything and 100% states a champion should be nerfed, but if they also have a high ban rate or high pick rate then that hints that a champion is strong.

Warwick's winrate is higher than usual because the recent changes have benefited him greatly. While he has no problem clearing the whole jungle because of his sustain, other junglers besides Nunu, Yi, and Udyr are having a harder time trying to keep their health up for ganks. Usually Warwick gets to do his level 6 gank before the other junglers start their second items or even their enchantment item.

Now, does this make him OP? Not really; people are still figuring out how to jungle with the others and still be able to help their lanes.

Will he be nerfed again? Most likely if other junglers can't keep up with him.

I'd say give it 2 weeks and if his winrate/banrate stay the same, his sustain may need some nerfing.

LongHair FoxNov 24, 20142 votes

There is more too it than just winrate. Old lb with the silence had a very bad winrate (I think it droped to 40% or less in certain tiers like silver) but she was still overpowered. The reason this happened was because when a non midlaner had to go mid they bought the "flavor of the month" champion and since lb had been that for a while a lot of bad players where using her lowering her winrate. Caitlyn did the same back when she was popular and had very bad winrates but a good adc who knew how to play her still destroyed everything even with her bad winrate.

In this case it is the opposite. New players are picking up warwick (there were very few warwick mains before patch 4.20) and since he has a low skill floor and is strong he can maintain a high winrate with players who still don't know everything about him.

Live2LetDieNov 24, 20142 votes

Isn't it interesting how the highest win rate champs are rarely played in LCS? Rammus and mummy were always at the top last season but never played in LCS.. This is because they are easily countred champs. WW is easy mode to counter Jung but people like playing safe in there own jungle and won't pressure him. It's players to unskilled to play against a champ that makes his win rate so high

DrukyulNov 24, 20141 votes

FOR THE SWARM

Fury and EmperorNov 24, 20141 votes

The community believes that "high KD in lane" or "annoying to play against" are more important indicators of whether a champion is OP than competitive winrate.

ˆˆººNov 24, 20141 votes

I'm so worried about WW jungling that I ban Poppy, Yorick, and Olaf everytime I get the option to because they sync together so well.

MarthianNov 24, 20141 votes

Regardless, Warwick needs reworked anyways.

SmokingPuffinNov 24, 20141 votes

Balanced win rates are not a goal. The game would be in quite a poor state if every champion had a 50% win rate in solo queue. There will always be pubstompers that dominate low level play, and there will always be hard to play champions that suck in low level play.

That said, win rates are a pretty good indicator when something is wrong. When Yasuo was a 52% win rate champ, you knew he was stupid broken -- a champion with that kind of difficulty level shouldn't be a winning champion in solo queue.

HayaishiNov 24, 20141 votes

Only the ones trying to defend their free elo blind themselves into believing that if their champion wins more than everyone else while also having decent popularity he's not overpowered and win rate doesn't mean anything.

If your champion wins MORE than everything else he should be nerfed, there's nothing that justifies absurd win rates.