AP evelynn took a massive nerf with the new jungle item

Pink Punk Zebra·Jun 24, 2015·8 votes·2,731 views

I guess riot only want us to play evelynn like the "pro" build her with the new item and full Tank after that!!

Because if you play AP evelynn you lose 10% CDR 40AP 15% Extra damage from lich bane because you cant build lich bane and have the new item too! 5% ms lost from lich bane! Plus the nerfs that happen on in the previous patch hit her hard too!! With the new patch evelynn lost 250 extra magic damage from her E good job riot good job nice item that gut 250 damage from a champion!

So yeah guys riot "really dont enforce build and metas" no no no....

52 Comments

SaiannaJun 24, 201510 votes

How to build Evelynn in few steps:

For Ap:

Buy her stricte AP. Lots of damage
Notice everyone kills you before you have even chance to get close
Notice that you don't deal any serious "assassin'ish" damage
Sell most of AP items leaving just Ludens Echo
Buy 5 tank items
Act like any tank, cause that's what you can do
KS people while screaming "Eve is viable assassin!!1111"

For AD:

Buy all nice sweet AD items you ever wanted
People kill you faster than caster minion
Sell all that sweet AD items youu ever wanted except triforce
Buy 5 most tank'ish items in the game
Act like a tank, cause that's all Eve is good at
Cry
Get some easy KS just to make you feel better

Now for both:

Come to forum and say: Eve is balanced, she doesn't need any help
Downvote anyone who says otherwise
Go into the game, pick Eve and proceed with steps 1-7
Cry. Cry alot.

LittleBlastJun 24, 201512 votes

Instructions unclear. Dick stuck in toaster.

Widder88Jun 24, 20152 votes

Lol, you have to buy CDR-AP, not just AP. Pure AP is like Vayne without Attack speed.

SaiannaJun 24, 20151 votes

There as many builds as many players. I just said "stricte AP" ut that doesn't mean 6x item 1058 ... Some items would have CDR

All I am saying that Evelynn isn't exactly a champion capable of being deadly. Riot stripped her from her identity. She's far more suited as off-tank.

Widder88Jun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

All I am saying that Evelynn isn't exactly a champion capable of being deadly. Riot stripped her from her identity. She's far more suited as off-tank.

I have 2908 kills with Eve this season and 1450 deaths, and I play her Full AP. At the same time I have combined 1454 kills with other champions and 2172 deaths, so I am not a smurf. So I can't agree with you at all.

SaiannaJun 25, 20151 votes

So your k/d is 2:1

That only says that you are good player/eve main.

But if we were to honestly compare every assassin then it'd be obvious Eve is on first or second place from end.

On a second thought is K/d 2:1 really that good on assassins? I dunno, really. I'm just playing ARAM and sigh.. I don't think there's a site that provides with my scores :(

EDIT: Nvm~~

Widder88Jun 25, 20151 votes

You said she isn't deadly. So kills is the criterion, not even K/D. I have 12.6 kills average.

Next question: Is 2:1 good for an assassin? Only Akali has a better K/D (13.7/6.2). But what really matters is the win rate. I have 61.7% win rate with Eve played as Full AP.

Many play Eve as Bruiser so you can't compare her average stats of all players to the average stats of assassins.

The EllimiistJun 24, 20152 votes

Or you could build cinder/botrk/mercs/trinity/tank/tank and not be a crapper ;p

SaiannaJun 24, 20151 votes

So you say 2 damage items rest in tank?

What a huge diversity~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!

jDVL20eCYsJun 24, 20155 votes

no it was a buff to ap evelyn please. I'm was the highest ranked ap evelyn jungler beginning season 5 when she and lowest win rate of all champs. i know this change is really good for her. so stfu

Pink Punk ZebraJun 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=ekko or feed,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AeNxlJ4m,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-24T10:19:23.496+0000)

no it was a buff to ap evelyn please. I'm was the highest ranked ap evelyn jungler beginning season 5 when she and lowest win rate of all champs. i know this change is really good for her. so stfu

yeah sure man sure....she got a very small buff before the time she was completing lich bane...because after this time her overall damage is going down...and i explain you with math

not with "hurr durr i know better trust me"

Widder88Jun 24, 20151 votes

Eve has high AP/AD scalings, what means that Rabadons is better for her than Lich bane. And other items deal almost the same damage as Lich bane (Zhonyas/Gunblade for example) but have better utility. So it is fine that you don't have to buy Lich bane now.

AND Runeglaive converts one E strike into magic damage! With magic pen Runeglaive deal probably more or the same damage as Lich bane in the late game.

LittleBlastJun 24, 20152 votes

I cant find a single eve game in your match history. Correct me if im wrong or match history is being really derpy.

jDVL20eCYsJun 24, 20151 votes

was long time since. but if you see my ranked stats you see i have play eve

ChronyJun 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=ekko or feed,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AeNxlJ4m,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-24T10:19:23.496+0000)

no it was a buff to ap evelyn please. I'm was the highest ranked ap evelyn jungler beginning season 5 when she and lowest win rate of all champs. i know this change is really good for her. so stfu

And I'm wildturtle....this change is bad for her so stfu

jDVL20eCYsJun 24, 20151 votes

when was you last time in master prom? thats right never. its good for her and really help her clear and mana sustain. also its so good with her kit.

FrikgeekJun 24, 20153 votes

building Magus on Eve

What the fuck is this? Just build warrior's like every normal eve and go tank after that.

Pink Punk ZebraJun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What the fuck is this? Just build warrior's like every normal eve and go tank after that.

oh hi sheep can you beeeeee for me a bit? i would like to hear it before you say anything else in order to know that you are a ship and your comments mean nothing

Widder88Jun 24, 20152 votes

But some players can actually play the champion and want to carry, instead of feeding/being useless like "every normal Eve". AP is for good Eve players. AD-Tank is for New Eve players to learn the champion without too much feeding, and for lowering the win rate to protect AP Eve from being nerfed.

FrikgeekJun 24, 20151 votes

Which is why every pro that played Eve did just that. I guess they're all noobs and new Eve players.

Widder88Jun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Which is why every pro that played Eve did just that. I guess they're all noobs and new Eve players.

Diamond built Magus. But yes, pro players don't main Eve, and play her bad. Indeed. And by the way LCS is something different than Soloqueue. To use a LCS build in Soloqueue is dubious at best.

FrikgeekJun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Diamond builded Magus.

Built. Also he went Magus into full tank, it was his only AP item. A bit weird but still within normal unlike full AP eve which is just bad.

pro players play her bad

Coming from someone who's gold. Yeaahhhh, I'm sure someone not even in the top 25% knows better than the pros in the top 0.01%. You don't have to copy the LCS builds but building a bruiser full AP is just bad. It's like going AD Renekton.

Widder88Jun 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Built.

Sry, I am german.

Also he went Magus into full tank, it was his only AP item. A bit weird but still within normal unlike full AP eve which is just bad.

But why do I have 61% win rate with Full AP Eve if it is bad? You have obviously no idea about the champion.

Coming from someone who's gold. Yeaahhhh, I'm sure someone not even in the top 25% knows better than the pros in the top 0.01%.

I see how good AD-Tank Eve is in LCS and how good it is when I play it in Gold. It is exactly the same at both Levels. Good in the early game as long as you don't have items, so items doesn't matter, but bad once some items are build. You don't see how useless AD-Tank Eve is mid-late game? A champion that is strong mid-late game played as AP.

You don't have to copy the LCS builds but building a bruiser full AP is just bad. It's like going AD Renekton.

But she is classified as Assassin. And it is the truth.

FrikgeekJun 25, 20151 votes

Personal experience from playing anything in super low Elo like gold is kinda useless. I could probably play jungle Annie or AP Malphite in gold and it would work. Nobody even tried going AP Eve in LCS because her mid-late would be 10 times worse. AD-Tank eve is the only build that gives you some mid-late power in exchange for your good earlygame. Build full AP or full AD and you might as well be a ward against decent players.

Also, Teemo is classified as a Marksman, do your really think those classes mean anything?

Widder88Jun 26, 20151 votes

27.7% of players are bronze. 40.7% of the players are silver. That is the main part of the LoL player base. High Elo is actually kinda unimportant and unrepresentative.

But I could show you players, which play AP Eve in high Elo very succsessful. For example: http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/RU/Hurricane%20Eve/matches . this is the best Eve player according to Lolskill. But I waste my time with you. You are just a meta sheep, and have obviously no plan about Evelynn at all.

FrikgeekJun 26, 20151 votes

A guy who plays AD and tank Eve about the same as he does AP Eve and has a 57% winrate is your big proof? Come on, I know plenty of hard mains with winrates well over 60%. Lolskill is absolutely worthless as it gives away points for simply spamming the champion or for prolonging the game to get more kills and cs. I mean, according to lolskill the best Janna in the world is a plat 4 player on the Turkish server.

And does anyone really care about balancing for the total retards in bronze, silver, and gold? They're going to suck no matter how you change the game and their feedback is pretty useless.

Widder88Jun 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A guy who plays AD and tank Eve about the same as he does AP Eve and has a 57% winrate is your big proof?

It is just an example, that already disproves your statment, that AP Eve is not better than a ward against good players.

And what do I have still to proof? Your opening advice for a Bronze 1 player was to play Eve as AD-Tank. Then you argue with high elo. Guys like this rank 1 Eve proof that AP Eve is good in high elo too, but lets say it would be bad in high elo, what would that mean? It would mean nothing for every normal unranked to platin player, which are 98%+ of all players. There is no reason to copy LCS shit. My believe is that too many Eve players do that, and it keeps her win rate down, but its good for me because it makes it unlikely that AP Eve gets nerfed. She even gets buffs like Runeglaive.

And does anyone really care about balancing for the total retards in bronze, silver, and gold? They're going to suck no matter how you change the game and their feedback is pretty useless.

90% of ranked players play in bronze-gold. They are important for Riot. It would suck if Riot would balance only for high elo, where many people have probably no real life. Thats not healthy. This is the reason why champions like Katarina or Amumu, which are not used in LCS, are not buffed. But Riot cares about every Elo, Low Elo as well as LCS.

FrikgeekJun 26, 20151 votes

If you win your earlygame on Eve hard enough your fed team will easily win no matter how useless you are. You can even pick up kills when cleaning up fights. The reason why you build tank on Eve is because that gives you a lategame without relying on your fed team to absolutely shitstomp everyone. Some eve players have winrates well over 57% and some of them can even win games where they didn't absolutely destroy early. If your team isn't at least 5000 gold ahead and you build damage on any jungler you're basically throwing the game.

And no, low Elo doesn't matter because it's impossible to balance for. Everyone is extremely bad and pretty much any champion can stomp against low Elo players, regardless of how OP or UP they are.

Widder88Jun 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you win your earlygame on Eve hard enough your fed team will easily win no matter how useless you are. You can even pick up kills when cleaning up fights.

But AP Eve and AD Eve are equal strong in the early game. AP Eve has more Ability damage, AD Eve has more AA damage. If Eve gets Autos off she does a bit more damage with AD, but if somebody kites her or if she has to run away, or if she dies to fast, she does not as much damage as AP Eve. So there is just more counterplay against AD Eve. And in the late game AP Eve outscales AD Eve just very hard, because of AP scaling items like Rabadons/Lich Bane/Runeglaive and because she don't has to buy as much defense as AD Eve, because she has burst and kite potential.

The reason why you build tank on Eve is because that gives you a lategame without relying on your fed team to absolutely shitstomp everyone. Some eve players have winrates well over 57% and some of them can even win games where they didn't absolutely destroy early.

AD Eve still relys on her team in the late game. AP Eve snowballs harder and can turn around a game from behind. I had some games I turned around in few minutes like crazy. It is really remarkable.

http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2092769106/204544131?tab=overview http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2094076204/204544131?tab=overview http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2043796186/204544131?tab=overview

If your team isn't at least 5000 gold ahead and you build damage on any jungler you're basically throwing the game.

This is somewhat true. If I am ahead, but not much I like to build semi-tanky AP items on Jungle Eve like RoA. It removes the comeback potential from your opponents. If behind it is probably the best to build just full AP to enforce your own comeback potential.

But while AD Champions/AD Eve have to buy real tank items like Randuins, AP champions/AP Eve have only to buy semi-tanky AP items (RoA, Zhonyas, Rylais, Abyssal etc.). That is enough for them.

And who said Eve has to be a jungler? Mid and Top works great too for her.

And no, low Elo doesn't matter because it's impossible to balance for. Everyone is extremely bad and pretty much any champion can stomp against low Elo players, regardless of how OP or UP they are.

I don't think it's true, but whatever.

FrikgeekJun 26, 20151 votes

Again, you're gold, anything can happen down there as enemies are much more likely to get caught out by Eve's burst. In higher ratings if you go tank you can at least provide some utility and hope someone on your team has enough lategame scaling to win eventually. You basically can't come back by yourself but if you're tanky you're much better for scouting and unless extremely behind you can still provide enough pressure to force the enemy to play more safely and delay their pushes a bit.

Rylai is good and is often built on Eve as a semi-tank later pickup but RoA is just too reliant on stacking to pick up unless you're very far ahead. Abyssal isn't the best option(Banshee veil is probably better) but it's decent if you have lots of magic damage elswhere on your team. Zhonya isn't a semi tank item, it gives you 45 AP and while the stasis is good on squishy carries who can wait for their cooldowns Eve doesn't really have high-impact spells aside from her ultimate she needs to wait for. You'd simply be better off with a real tank item because your AP scaling isn't that great anyway.

Mid eve is situational, toplane eve is just trash. Her base armor and HP are too low to survive against bruiser bullies and she has dashes to deal with CC tanks if she gets ganked.

Widder88Jun 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Again, you're gold, anything can happen down there as enemies are much more likely to get caught out by Eve's burst. In higher ratings if you go tank you can at least provide some utility and hope someone on your team has enough lategame scaling to win eventually.

But there are AP Eves with good results in high elo, so i don't worry, if i once get to this elo. Atm I don't have to care anyway. 99% of the players don't have to care.

if you're tanky you're much better for scouting and unless extremely behind you can still provide enough pressure to force the enemy to play more safely and delay their pushes a bit.

I see it in LCS. It is super useless if not ahead.

Eve doesn't really have high-impact spells aside from her ultimate she needs to wait for. You'd simply be better off with a real tank item because your AP scaling isn't that great anyway.

Q has 55% AP scaling on 0.9 s CD with 40% CDR. E has 100% AP scaling, 110% with arcane blade, 140% with runeglaive, 160% with Lich bane and 190% with Lich bane and Nashors Tooth. Runeglaive turns one E strike into magic damage, so E is mainly magic damage if you have that item.

Mid eve is situational, toplane eve is just trash. Her base armor and HP are too low to survive against bruiser bullies and she has dashes to deal with CC tanks if she gets ganked.

She can farm from range with Q, and run away with W. She has one of the highest health regenerations in the early game. I like it against something without early kill pressure. But Mid and Jungle are probably a little bit better, Mid more situational/risk-reward than jungle.

FrikgeekJun 26, 20151 votes

I see it in LCS. It is super useless if not ahead.

It's eve, she always struggles when not ahead. The reason you don't see AP eve in the LCS is because pros know it would be even more useless than tank eve when not ahead.

Being able to farm from range doesn't make a toplaner. And your W is kinda usless if any kind of CC lands on you. What can you do if a Mao flash snares you and a sejuani follows up? You'll just explode before the CC wears off. She's not even situational unless they have a crap non-tanky top and jungler.

Your hpregen can't compare to actual sustain. Irelia or Mao will simply outsustain you no matter how good your hpregen is. Especially Maokai if you farm with your Q, you're giving him so many passive procs.

If you buy Lichbane and Nashor's then you won't end up with as much AP as a normal midlaner would(700-800) and you're still super squishy and have to get into melee range with no dashes to actually use your E. Without being tanky you'll simply get kited and blown up before you can even use that E on their backline.

But there are AP Eves with good results in high elo, so i don't worry, if i once get to this elo. Atm I don't have to care anyway. 99% of the players don't have to care.

Not caring about your rating is the only reason you can play AP eve. If you actually wanted to rise you wouldn't even play her at all. No eve main can match the winrates of really good Gragas or Sejuani mains.

jDVL20eCYsJun 24, 20152 votes

you never went lihcbane second item on evelny jungle do

just go

item 3708 item 3020 item 3089 item 3157 item 3001 item 3115

Widder88Jun 24, 20152 votes

Nashors tooth is very late for 40% CDR. Better buy item 3158 . Q does more DPS with Ionian boots than with Sorcerers. Then buy Lich bane later instead of Nashors Tooth because of the cap. But great build otherwise. I build her in the same way.

jDVL20eCYsJun 24, 20151 votes

no its dose more damage with sorceress ....

Widder88Jun 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=ekko or feed,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AeNxlJ4m,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-24T15:32:52.909+0000)

no its dose more damage with sorceress ....

If you have 25% CDR (Magus+Masteries), additional 15% CDR increase the Q DPS by 1-(0.75/0.6) = 25%. Sorcerers increase the Q DPS by only 15% in the best case if the enemy has 15 MR. More likely is 12%, if the enemy has 42 MR (Adcs have often 42 MR). One Q does more damage with Sorceres, but DPS matters because it is a spam ability. E doesn't benefit from Sorcerers, but from CDR. And the W reset benefits from CDR even twice (W CD, CDs of other spells which decrease W CD if they hit champions).

FyshinaTuxJun 24, 20151 votes

The issue with Evelynn is that Riot tried to make her an assassin, determined she did that WAY too well, started turning her into a bruiser, but tried to keep her as an assassin, so now we have a bruiser that's too squishy and doesn't deal enough damage, or an assassin that can't assassinate.

Pretty much sums up what I've seen from Evelynn since her rework (after the initial rework that left us with OP Eve).

Widder88Jun 24, 20151 votes

You need knowledge if you want to be successful with Eve. Then it is easy.

LilxPaprikaJun 24, 20151 votes

I still think the solution for jungle items is to give us temporary/disposable jungle items. The thing is riot wants us to really use smite all game long. For the longest time junglers could never use smite on champions and it was fine. There are ample items available that do practically the same thing as smite active what's the difference if it comes from pressing f or d for summoner as opposed to 1234 for item slot. Would be nice if you could sell jungle items for little cost that way you can trade it for lichbane later in the game. While early game it can help you get past jungle phase...

Come late game I still will often sell my jungle item. Why keep say warrior when you can get Triforce/bortk/gunblade/BT/ghostblade/blackcleaver/mallet/scimitar etc instead. Its just mostly in extended games. Games should usually end before then.

Post I made on this: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5eovZTAH-i-want-you-guys-to-take-an-objective-look-at-this-and-tell-me-what-you-think

PartholonianJun 24, 20151 votes

If you get to 50 minutes and 20k gold, it's OK to sell your jungle item no matter what it is for a regular item. Your smite will revert to base smite, but this is probably ok at that point (depending on what you are gaining in exchange obv).

You wouldn't really want to keep magus at that point either, you'd probably be trading it for something like ludens, so why is it bad for runeglaive to have a potential to upgrade to lichbane or iceborn? (It's not cost efficient to do that early ofc, but full build allows you to do things that would be wastes of gold otherwise).

LilxPaprikaJun 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you get to 50 minutes and 20k gold, it's OK to sell your jungle item no matter what it is for a regular item. Your smite will revert to base smite, but this is probably ok at that point (depending on what you are gaining in exchange obv).

You wouldn't really want to keep magus at that point either, you'd probably be trading it for something like ludens, so why is it bad for runeglaive to have a potential to upgrade to lichbane or iceborn? (It's not cost efficient to do that early ofc, but full build allows you to do things that would be wastes of gold otherwise).

mostly because its not easy to get to full build majority of games tend to end before that window. And there's usually always other stats for late game like elixirs / upgraded boots that you might want before selling your jungle item for new item. unless you got fed might be looking at 50 minute mark.

i actually have a better idea: you could still upgrade to full jungle item if you wanted to. or have it disposable your choice.

http://i.imgur.com/80jwsQ2.jpg i think this would be a good solution for fiddle.

BastionKrossJun 24, 20151 votes

The only meta that Riot is trying to enforce with Eve is that you shouldn't play her.

Widder88Jun 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Punk Zebra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AeNxlJ4m,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-06-24T10:12:50.722+0000)

I guess riot only want us to play evelynn like the "pro" build her with the new item and full Tank after that!!

Because if you play AP evelynn you lose 10% CDR 40AP 15% Extra damage from lich bane because you cant build lich bane and have the new item too! 5% ms lost from lich bane! Plus the nerfs that happen on in the previous patch hit her hard too!! With the new patch evelynn lost 250 extra magic damage from her E good job riot good job nice item that gut 250 damage from a champion!

So yeah guys riot "really dont enforce build and metas" no no no....

Runeglaive has low base damage and low stats but good AP scaling. It enforces an Full AP build, not AP-Tank.

I tested Runeglaive on Eve, and I think it is slightly better than Magus. Magus was great, the best enchantment, but Runeglaive is even more useful.

You have to compensate the loss of 10% CDR with runes. But this makes you stronger in the early game. CDR is the single best stat for Eve, get it as early as possible, if you can get it with runes - do it, if that doesn't mean that you are overcapping with items later. With rune glaive you can take 15% CDR from runes/masteries, 10% from runeglaive and 15% from boots. You have 15% during the early game and that is really good.

Once you buy runeglaive, your Q is not as strong as with Magus, but your E and your Sheen AAs are way stronger. Overall my feeling is that it is worth.

Later you don't have to buy Lich bane. There are so many other good items, but Lich bane was necessary for burst. Now you have it in your Jungle item, what is great because you are more free later to buy other items.

And runeglaive converts one E strike into magic damage! this means magic penetration is now a good stat again for Eve like before 4.1. In the next patch Liandries and Void staff will be buffed. This will be great for Eve.

And Ludens Echo was never a really good item for Eve, even before the nerf. item 3089 , item 3100 , item 3146 were always better for her, damage-wise.

Runeglaive -> Rabadons is the best build.

Arcane EzrealJun 24, 20151 votes

and she gets buffed when the ap item changes come by.

The EllimiistJun 24, 20151 votes

good, ap eve is crap anyways xD

SwampmajikkJun 24, 20151 votes

Ap eve has sucked in the jungle for a while. Really u can just use warrior or cinder hulk and build hybrid/tank which works better anyway. Sucks she can't use magus anymore. So much for the dps spike.

You can always take her back to mid and build ap..