Brutalizer. I dont ALWAYS want a youmuus.

Bârd·Apr 30, 2015·115 votes·6,449 views

Ok, riot, we need a talk.

Is a damn good early game item, great stats, cost effective.

But what if I dont want to build on , , , etc.

With the rework of Black cleaver, the speedy sword is the only item that builds from brutalizer that doesnt require smite.

Champs that benefit from building a bruitalizer early (generally) don't have the best synergy with a phage.

may thank you for giving him an option to run even faster, but most champs dont like it. Initially, I thought would like this, but it forces him to choose between armorshred for his team with cleaver, or generally higher damage with a

tl;dr

Add another brutalizer item. I would reccomend either some kind of heal reduction AD item (a good version of executioners culling), or something that heals you based on the physical damage you deal (like the red pot, but effective vs minions).

198 Comments

metaworldpeace10Apr 30, 201518 votes

Now is the time to fix essence reaver by removing the BF sword and adding the brutilzer into the build path!

SH AzykanApr 30, 20156 votes

this would be kinda cool tbh, would give it a much better build path that lets you actually want it first item instead of something else if you are a mana heavy AD (like Jayce, Ezreal, Pantheon, etc)

VenowolfApr 30, 20155 votes

item 3134 + item 1053

This need to be the "selected" IMO.

I put on: item 3508

60 AD 10% Life Steal 20%CD

Unique Passive: 10 Armor Penetration

UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your basic attacks restore mana equal to between 2% and 8% of the physical damage dealt, based on your missing mana.

The price can be lowered to 3000g

SociopathFriendMay 1, 20155 votes

This man/woman needs more upvotes

ProfDrDeathApr 30, 201513 votes

Brutalizer is in kind-of a bad spot atm, true.

However, it might have something to do with the item on a conceptual level: Brutalizer is an item that gives three self-synergistic stats for its primary users (AD based casters), effectively giving you a major powerspike, on a rather low cost.

At the moment, I can't picture another item that has that kind of tripling down on on the self-synergy in the same price category (1200 to 1500 gold, first back-items). item 3010 item 3136 item 3155 item 3145 item 3044 item 3191 item 3057 item 3211

The closest thing to Brutalizer is Haunting Guise - it also gives Pen and primary damage stat (AP), but also HP - which is an unrelated stat to the other two. If it gave CdR instead...

DeliothApr 30, 20152 votes

First back 1200 gold? Must be nice to CS.

Braum First back item 3097 item 1001

Wînter FoxApr 30, 20158 votes

Should be item 2049

BladeSteelApr 30, 20155 votes

Doesn't matter that much. If he goes with that as a first back he'll get more money, and as long as he's purchasing wards as well there's no reason to get a sightstone first.

CoolKnightSTApr 30, 201512 votes

So probaly one of these 6:

StephenizgodApr 30, 20152 votes

item 3134 + item 3086

PartholonianApr 30, 20159 votes

Wouldn't that just lead to another autoattacker item? A pure ad caster isn't going to want Zeal or anything that builds from it. The whole point is to have an option for people that don't necessarily want to repeatedly autoattack. Khazix Talon Zed for example.

AtheosisXApr 30, 201511 votes

Fair point. Brutalizer is in a weird spot now. Most bruisers really don't want YG.

AFK PushApr 30, 20158 votes

I don't have a problem as Rengar or Hecarim because they both like item 3142 , however this is going to make my Renekton feel strange if I accidentally buy a brutalizer instinctively thinking it goes into a item 3071

PartholonianApr 30, 20154 votes

Or just because you really want its stats early game. Khazix Zed Talon will have a similar problem.

Riven might not mind the item 3142 because of her passive, though.

phantomsaberMay 1, 20155 votes

The main problem I see is that for pseudo-assassin bruisers (khazix/riven) they are now having to deal with a heavy tank meta. That incentivizes building item 3071 over item 3142 . This becomes even more viable when you take into account the phage passive. Unless crit is essential to your bruiser...... starts to look really good but no so good as to nullify the lack of brutalizer synergy item 3070

RisurinMay 1, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Or just because you really want its stats early game. will have a similar problem.

might not mind the because of her passive, though.

kha'zix aside, the other 3 were more then fine with ghostblade over old black cleaver. Ghostblade was in fact a better dps spike if completed early. As for Kha'zix tho, since he is mostly a jungler now and kinda suck in lane, he still get it for warrior enchant, and can get hydra instead, which will help clear and have isolation + better burst.

NorthernDruidApr 30, 20159 votes

Really, what we need is a new Brutalizer upgrade with medium-high attack damage (50-60), potentially one with more CDR (15% sounds really nice btw) and without the crit from Ghostblade.

Something focused around being a purely offensive item revolving around AD ArPen and CDR, and being competitive in AD.

VenowolfApr 30, 20155 votes

item 3134 + item 1053

This need to be the "selected" IMO.

I put on: item 3508

60 AD 10% Life Steal 20%CD

Unique Passive: 10 Armor Penetration

UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your basic attacks restore mana equal to between 2% and 8% of the physical damage dealt, based on your missing mana.

The price can be lowered to 3000g

5000000000000000Apr 30, 20157 votes

item 3140 item 3077 No alternate build path. These items also need different options.

NilokApr 30, 201532 votes

Yes, but they build into a better version of themselves, Brutalizer goes from a great early AD caster/bruiser item, into an auto attack focused item that doesn't work for the people who normally like Brutalizer.

Dr PoroApr 30, 20155 votes

Well, you can argue with QQS. Sometimes you'd want the item on a mage but you don't really want to be building an AD item. As for hydra, you often don't want the lifesteal, but hey, everyone building tiamat benefits from it, even if it's a small portion of your damage. It would probably have some balance issues if it gave all the stats you wanted.

But yeah, you're right. They are not only the same level as brutalizer-youmuu's differences. Completely different target groups. I guess only Talon and Zed still like to build this (and certain ADCs but they don't get brutalizer earlygame). I'm not sure if you still buy brutalizer early game just to sell it lategame on other champs, though.

It Hertz When IPApr 30, 201512 votes

You realize Tiamat didn't use to build into anything, right?

TerchioApr 30, 20154 votes

Same with QSS.

RebonackApr 30, 20155 votes

Make it build into an item with the following passive.

UNIQUE passive: You gain (amount) armor penetration for every (other amount) bonus attack damage.

DreadlocksApr 30, 201529 votes

lol no.

NinjaToad99Apr 30, 201570 votes

Riven Heavy breathing

Tis a nice dayApr 30, 201524 votes

NO NO NO DO NOT WANT ANYMORE ASSRAPINGS WITH BROKEN SWORDS

Mango LocoApr 30, 201527 votes

Riven weird fanart pops up

RikariApr 30, 201513 votes

Fiora Zed Heavier Breathing

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20154 votes

Ghostblade is really good on Garen to be honest.

Only Play DariusApr 30, 201534 votes

If you think it is anywhere near as good as Cleaver on Garen, you are smoking something.

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20151 votes

Says the Bronze V guy to me? Ok....I will accept your opinion since its based on the experience of playing Garen at 800 Elo where it really matters what you build.

TotalJerkApr 30, 201536 votes

That "Bronze V" is correct though, Mr. LCS pro.

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20151 votes

Says the guy who finishes his game with 72 cs on Garen top. Or 110 in 33 mins. See why would I have any reason to discuss with guys who have no clue how to play this game? The op wasnt talking about Garen in Bronze elo as far as I know.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 30, 201513 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaJNYABc,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-30T10:42:06.140+0000)

Says the guy who finishes his game with 72 cs on Garen top. Or 110 in 33 mins. See why would I have any reason to discuss with guys who have no clue how to play this game? The op wasnt talking about Garen in Bronze elo as far as I know.

Lol wtf man.

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20152 votes

Well no reason to be polite if they are trying to talk down to me is there? I simply stated that Ghostblade is good on Garen to which that Bronze V replied I must be smoking something, so idk what answer he expects?

DeathToHereticsApr 30, 201522 votes

that Bronze V

Is still a human being. Just because your rank is higher than his doesn't mean you get to treat him like he's subhuman. You are part of the reason why this community is thought of as toxic.

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20152 votes

How about you read the "argument" from the beginning? :) And see who started insulting? I don't mind what rank you are as long as you are polite. I made a simple statement which was: Ghostblade is good on Garen...the reply was you must be smoking if you think its better on Garen than Black Cleaver...so not only is that totally irrelevant since I never made that comparison but its also very impolite no? Then I reply in the same impolite way and now have a bunch of people crying and telling me I am toxic and judge people by rank.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 30, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaJNYABc,comment-id=000600000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-30T12:01:44.320+0000)

How about you read the "argument" from the beginning? :) And see who started insulting? I don't mind what rank you are as long as you are polite. I made a simple statement which was: Ghostblade is good on Garen...the reply was you must be smoking if you think its better on Garen than Black Cleaver...so not only is that totally irrelevant since I never made that comparison but its also very impolite no? Then I reply in the same impolite way and now have a bunch of people crying and telling me I am toxic and judge people by rank.

You obviously judged people by rank. Are you in delusion?

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20152 votes

I answered in the same rude way he replied to me.

WarlockLawMay 1, 20151 votes

Actually you were the first person to be rude in this "argument." Saying "you must be smoking/on something" isn't rude in my opinion, and it definitely isn't as rude as "you're bronze V" and the implied your opinion doesn't matter.

The Bíg TicketMay 1, 20152 votes

So accusing me of smoking something because I made the statement Ghostblade is good on Garen is not rude...but telling someone he is Bronze V (which is true) is rude? Makes sense.

AFK PushApr 30, 201513 votes

Well maybe if you weren't playing the victim after you were corrected and called someone out for being Bronze. You're backing yourself into a corner like a defenseless animal, the more you respond it isn't getting any better. Just move on.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 30, 201529 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaJNYABc,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-30T10:42:06.140+0000)

Says the guy who finishes his game with 72 cs on Garen top. Or 110 in 33 mins. See why would I have any reason to discuss with guys who have no clue how to play this game? The op wasnt talking about Garen in Bronze elo as far as I know.

http://champion.gg/champion/Garen Data is based on Plat+ games, before you say something like "don't fucking use bronze data lololol dumbass."

Highest Win % Core Build item 3068 item 3009 item 3071 item 3065 item 3083 item 3143

Most Frequent Core Build item 3068 item 3111 item 3143 item 3065 item 3075 item 3083

I must be blind because I can't see ghostblade anywhere. It must be fake because cleaver has the highest win rate. Seriously WTF.

I transferred to TW server since S3. I was Plat S4, and is currently Gold 2. Well, if you think it matters. http://lol.moa.tw/summoner/show/Mundo

Guess you are some LCS pro though, so the data is certainly invalid for you. :(

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20153 votes

Well don't know why you think I would call you dumbass. There is no reason to be impolite or insult someone just because he has a different opinion. In case you didn't notice I will repeat it again for you, he was the one trying to sound like a smartass not me :) I never said Ghostblade is better than Black Cleaver, my simple statement was that Ghostblade is good on Garen. Nothing else. So please keep it real before you are trying to make me look like a jerk who judges people by rank. If you wanna discuss why the old Black Cleaver is better on Garen than Ghostblade I am open for that (even though I never claimed that) but as I said keep it real then.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 30, 201522 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaJNYABc,comment-id=0006000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-04-30T11:09:12.353+0000)

Well don't know why you think I would call you dumbass. There is no reason to be impolite or insult someone just because he has a different opinion. In case you didn't notice I will repeat it again for you, he was the one trying to sound like a smartass not me :)

He might be overreacting, but no near as rude as you were. At least he didn't answer you based on your identity. Check these out: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=what+are+you+smokin%3F http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=What+have+you+been+smokin%27 His expression is really common among chatting scenarios. I really don't find it rude.

I never said Ghostblade is better than Black Cleaver, my simple statement was that Ghostblade is good on Garen.

Well, he made an reasonable point. Both cleaver and ghostblade were built from Brutalizer. You saying that ghostblade was really good actually implied it was better than cleaver, according to the context of this thread. (the context is cleaver can no longer be built from brutalizer, in case you are wondering.)

You even used the expression "to be honest.", which implies you were pointing out a solid fact against the majority in the discussion chain. And that majority said cleaver was better than ghostblade on Garen.

Readers have every reason to assume that you were implying ghostblade was superior to cleaver.

Nothing else. So please keep it real before you are trying to make me look like a jerk who judges people by rank.

"Says the Bronze V guy to me? " "Says the guy who finishes his game with 72 cs on Garen top. Or 110 in 33 mins." hmmm....

If you wanna discuss why the old Black Cleaver is better on Garen than Ghostblade I am open for that (even though I never claimed that) but as I said keep it real then.

So you think that ghostblade was better than old cleaver on Garen, right?

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20151 votes

So its not rude to a) accuse someone of a statement he never made and b) tell him he must be smoking something to make that statement. Ok...but telling someone he is Bronze V (which is true in his case) and that it doesnt matter what you build there is rude. How about you stop being a hypocrite?

And no, I did not say that Ghostblade is better than Black Cleaver and nothing in my statement leads to that comparison no matter how much you are trying to justify that dude's reply. The op was talking about not wanting to build Ghostblade on certain champs (including Garen) and that he would like to see another item building out of Brutalizer. Then I replied that Ghostblade is really good on Garen. Does that mean its superior to the old Black Cleaver? No. My statement was that you are totally fine building an early Brutalizer on Garen and later finising Ghostblade because it is a good item on him which helps him splitpushing, chasing down people, dueling and also increases his damage by alot.

Those were facts. Yes he is Bronze V and yes the other guy has 110 cs in 33 mins which is very bad. Is there anything wrong with that? No, there are people who are not that good at this game but that doesnt make them bad persons, if you consider these facts as insults you probably have a low opinion of Bronze players. If these guys keep it real and polite I will do the same, if they try to look down at me because they misunderstood a statement then yes I will be rude too.

Again, no I don't think that. Both the old Cleaver and Ghostblade are/were good items on Garen. Black Cleaver was better if you were looking for teamfights and shredding the enemy tanks by applying Cleaver stacks on them, Ghostblade as I mentioned earlier helped alot if you had inferior teamfight and needed to splitpush as the active helps you take down towers and duel people. There are situations were Black Cleaver is better and situations were Ghostblade is the optimale choice, both items are very good on Garen.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 30, 201517 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AaJNYABc,comment-id=000600000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-30T12:25:36.535+0000)

So its not rude to a) accuse someone of a statement he never made and b) tell him he must be smoking something to make that statement. Ok...but telling someone he is Bronze V (which is true in his case) and that it doesnt matter what you build there is rude. How about you stop being a hypocrite?

a) He made a reasonable assumption, not accusation. b) You don't take idioms literally.

What you were doing is "Hey, you are bronze. Your opinion is nothing."

Wow calm down. No one is trying to be a hypocrite. Another rude statement by you. Well done.

And no, I did not say that Ghostblade is better than Black Cleaver and nothing in my statement leads to that comparison no matter how much you are trying to justify that dude's reply. The op was talking about not wanting to build Ghostblade on certain champs (including Garen) and that he would like to see another item building out of Brutalizer. Then I replied that Ghostblade is really good on Garen. Does that mean its superior to the old Black Cleaver? No. My statement was that you are totally fine building an early Brutalizer on Garen and later finising Ghostblade because it is a good item on him which helps him splitpushing, chasing down people, dueling and also increases his damage by alot.

It doesn't matter what you really wanted to say. People interpret a statement differently. It happens. In your comment, they had enough evidence to guess your assumption. I suggest you read my last reply again. I already explained in detail.

Those were facts. Yes he is Bronze V and yes the other guy has 110 cs in 33 mins which is very bad. Is there anything wrong with that? No, there are people who are not that good at this game but that doesnt make them bad persons, if you consider these facts as insults you probably have a low opinion of Bronze players. If these guys keep it real and polite I will do the same, if they try to look down at me because they misunderstood a statement then yes I will be rude too.

Don't try to build a strawman argument.

"See why would I have any reason to discuss with guys who have no clue how to play this game?"

Yes, very polite. You basically asked them to shut up. You only pointed out their ELO and CS without any explanation related to the items. Now, tell me, why did you point out their ELO and CS?

Oh, you actually answered me already. "...a jerk who judges people by rank."

Again, no I don't think that. Both the old Cleaver and Ghostblade are/were good items on Garen. Black Cleaver was better if you were looking for teamfights and shredding the enemy tanks by applying Cleaver stacks on them, Ghostblade as I mentioned earlier helped alot if you had inferior teamfight and needed to splitpush as the active helps you take down towers and duel people. There are situations were Black Cleaver is better and situations were Ghostblade is the optimale choice, both items are very good on Garen.

Well, okay.

LL Cool PlayApr 30, 20158 votes

sorry mate, skill and knowledge aren't comparable. he might be bronze or whatever but the fact that you're more skilful doesn't make you more knowledgeable

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Apr 30, 20157 votes

{quoted}

sorry mate, skill and knowledge aren't comparable. he might be bronze or whatever but the fact that you're more skilful doesn't make you more knowledgeable

You replied to the wrong person though.