tank meta coming back

Dark Vaatu·Dec 16, 2018·5 votes·4,615 views

i think all these adc buff will make tank playable again. notice since adc nerf and tank went downhill too

51 Comments

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20187 votes

nope.

buffing adcs just helps them vs tanks. other then the insane buffs to orrn there is no tank coming back

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20182 votes

Arnt the "insane buffs to ornn" just turning him into a damage dealer/bruiser? They took his shield away and the only way he can get that survivability back is by getting as many upgraded tank items as he can and even then none of those items he can upgrade are specifically tailored to tanking.

And tanks enjoy adc metas because they tend to be the ones peeling for the adc.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20182 votes

yes it makes orrn do more damage but he gets free ARM/MR from any source now.

and typically yes. but with things that already hurts tanks being meta such as conqueror and ignite and crit adcs being stronger getting IE now tanks are now facing a lot more true damage. which makes their ARMOR useless.

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20182 votes

ccing the enemy assassin to save your adc who can now carry the game makes tanks useless? Reread what I said, a tank that can peel for a strong adc is a happy tank, even against a strong adc and an assassin.

and are you forgetting item 3047 item 3143 (which even reduces true dmg from ie) and item 3110 combo

These items have passives that you simply cannot penetrate because they are not armor. They may not look like much but they help keep adcs in check.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20183 votes

yet the enemy adc who is crit ( thats what being buff and vayne ) will do true damage to tanks and armor dont stop that.

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20182 votes

Why are you still talking about armor when I was talking about item passives, if you cannot counter my argument then don't act so ignorant.

I easily tanked a vayne with those items, her attack speed was so slow from the debuffs she kept auto canceling a few times and even then I had plenty of hp left over after killing her, as a tank.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20181 votes

those items dont stop true damage , nothing does

there isnt anything that reduces true damage

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20182 votes

YES THEY DO???

item 3143 reduces true damage from item 3031 (specific item interaction stated by developers) and reduces attack speed which prevents true damage.

item 3110 lowers attack speed further and decreases cooldowns which provides more uptime for cc and defensive abilities, all of which are capable of reducing / preventing / negating incoming true damage.

item 3047 Doesn't block true damage but it still works against armor pen...its a passive, not armor...

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20183 votes

also there is still adcs in every game.

Lucian Ezreal

there has always been an ADC meta

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20182 votes

Those champions are strong because they have enough self peel AND damage (cant do it with either missing) to go toe to toe with assassins and survive, along with the ability to bully scaling adcs out of lane, next argument plz.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20183 votes

there are more then just those two adcs

my point is adcs are still meta and always have been

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20181 votes

Nobody considers it adc meta because the large majority of adcs are not meta with only a select few of the best being good.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20182 votes

lol that is how it been for a long time.

3-5 adcs at the top then every one else

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20181 votes

Season 7 was an adc meta where coincidently, most adcs were good and potentially strong considering the matchups.

LordGeovanniDec 16, 20181 votes

That skeleton argument is bad just because adc mains only play what is considered the top champion not because the other adcs are bad because adcs are notorious glory hogs and thus play what ever is top to keep give themselves the best chance at winning at all times.

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20181 votes

I agree and thanks for even considering that point to be an argument.

But ya, just like any other meta, assassin, adc, tank, etc involves a whole roster of champions being more viable than normal and not just the select few meta ones.

LordGeovanniDec 16, 20181 votes

Not just like any other meta because adcs being mostly 3 champions is predicated on 20% of adc players ego and 75% of adc players being sheep. compared to other roles where there will be people playing their favorite champion the majority of the time no matter how they are in the 'meta' which skews balance numbers for those champions as to where they are balanced or not just like no one wanting to play what isnt the top 3 adcs is gonna skew numbers.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20182 votes

a buffed vayne with a item 3153 item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3036

is going to win vs a item 3110 item 3143 item 3047

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20183 votes

3 items vs 5? And why are you specifically talking about vayne, she is designed to do damage no matter what because she is short ranged, it doesn't matter how many offensive items you give her, if I cc her in my team then she will blow up.

Instead that vayne will need a tank to peel for her to survive group fights, but you ignore that argument all the time so I guess you cant comprehend it.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20181 votes

well see what champ is gonna be effective with that and no damage?

Maokai well he still needs at least two hp items so item 3068 item 3065 ?

which would allow vayne to do more % hp damage with item 3153 plus her W plus item 3031

Maokai item 3068 item 3065 item 3110 item 3143 item 3047 Vayne item 3153 item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3036

so now we have a maokai building purely against the vayne

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20181 votes

Maokai would easily press W on her, walk behind her and q her into his team....

If Maokai was on vayne`s team, she would last a lot longer and possibly even carry.

You should note that this is a team game and vayne`s drawbacks are cataclysmic in group fights making her more of a squishy duelist with potential to carry.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20182 votes

lets not forget how bad Maokai currently is either in top lane

RagnaveilDec 16, 20181 votes

I can agree with this, as a person who loves and mains him (not anymore since pretty much he's unplayable toplane atm)

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20181 votes

i am a maokai OTP and have been since season 5. since they implemented stats in profile in midseason i have a 52% win rate on him. and life time about 57% i have nearly 1 million mastery points on him. i love the champ , i miss what he use to be. i dont find the game fun nor really care to play due to the state he is in. i love tanks and i love playing support. i wish true supports and tanks would come back but due to changes in the over all gameplay of the game its just not likely.

drastic things have to change for it to be a tank meta again but with the faster game pace, people wanting to "express skill" by doing damage and all the hyper mobile champs it will never be that again.

RagnaveilDec 16, 20181 votes

I suggested some tank items gain damage reduction (that isn't stackable or is stackable but are small amounts) and Conqueror loses its true damage (basically becoming FoB). The change to LW was so under the radar to everyone they dont even understand the implications it had on other items. (And well, Void got buffed to be the perfect anti tank single counter item, regardless what type of mage buys it)

Daddy AntsDec 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

a buffed vayne with a

is going to win vs a

That Build..... [zombie-brand-facepalm]

LordGeovanniDec 16, 20182 votes

Nobody playing tank wants to just baby sit the back line when your champion is supposed to be bulky and in the middle of the fight. Who is happy with that? investing in those items will make you paper when you come across any item 3035 or item 3071

Those items are better than other items for dealing with only an adc with no armor pen (unless they have random magic damage) but that doesnt make those items good.

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20181 votes

You arnt babysitting you are ccing the biggest threat to your adc and hopefully disrupting the enemy team enough to give them time to mow the enemy team down. (usually doing your own thing , with more weight on targeting whoever is dangerous.)

Also black cleaver is broken I think we all agree on that.

LordGeovanniDec 16, 20181 votes

all the games penetration is broken. Why cant you cc the biggest threat to the adc from the front line even more so why cant the you let the adc kite with their self peel until you have won the fight on the front line even if they have to die for it. fights should be able to be won without the adc. their job contrary to what people think is to deal consistent ranged damage not win every fight because they have been nicknamed attack damage carry.

RagnaveilDec 16, 20181 votes

Not to mention the forgotten change to LW allowing ADCs to have even more damage against tanks. "They changed it from bonus to total, whats the difference?" It accounts base armor, meaning you can have a 200 armor tank be only 130 just with an item like Lord Doms (This also changed how BC's armor shred works, and Darius' E passive. Basically anything with % armor pen was changed to have total and not bonus)

Also, with the addition of Conqueror Tanks can't survive this meta. With or without the IE change, they are still unable to do anything with how their base stats and items are as is. They need to go through each item, and see if more can be done to make them better for both tanks and juggernauts (a subclass that is half bruiser and half tank) and add like at least one new armor item and one magic resist item.

So, with these upcoming adc buffs, the meta is gonna remain the same, and tanks will still be inferior to bruisers as long as stuff like Conqueror exists.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20181 votes

thats my whole argument

RagnaveilDec 16, 20181 votes

This is the thing i've been preaching ever since 8.11 (8.6 if you count Conqueror). And people look at me like im crazy. Sorry that im reading the notes that have been in front of us for the past few months. Like, i get some people are salty about the long tank meta we had in the past, but jesus christ can they open their eyes for once and realize how bad they are atm. Sure, support tanks are popular and have a good winrate, thats because they are not going against true damage sources like conqueror or high base damage bruisers and juggernauts like Darius in lane, not to mention they have high armor base stats compared to tanks like Maokai and Ornn, meaning they take less damage from physical harass (and relic is a thing)

LordGeovanniDec 16, 20186 votes

Thats not tank meta thats protect the adc meta. Not tanks being strong thats adcs being so strong you protect them at all costs even the cost of the other 8 players enjoying the game. Tanks suffer the most when adcs are strong what tanks need to be played again is have assassins be punishable when they jump in whether they get a kill or not.

RagnaveilDec 16, 20184 votes

Or, be allowed to do their job and soak damage.

Tahminatrix Dec 16, 20181 votes

We all want tanks to be more viable like that but protect the adc meta is unfortunately the most realistic thing we will get from riot.

LordGeovanniDec 16, 20181 votes

I dont want what is realistic from riot because most of what riot does sucks and only benefits back line carries and flashy assassins. I want riot to change what is realistic from them from half way into season 3 where they made kassassidin kha zix rengar op. and season 4 where they changed the base stats for everyone nerfed bruiser and tank defenses and sustain and buffed mage and adc defense sustain and dps. I dont want tanks to be viable againt at the expense of having to sit on top of the adc and mage again which is in all effect afk for the tank player with all that they get to to do in interact with.

FemalesAreLesserDec 16, 20184 votes

Vayne Did someone say Tank meta?

hoganftwDec 16, 20182 votes

true damage just ruins tanks and damage levels have gotten so absurd that tanks can't even tank hits anymore.

Cats Are FoodDec 16, 20182 votes

"Extreme damage drives tank Metas, as players attempt to survive play long enough to have a presence." -Morello

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20182 votes

havent we been in a extreme damage meta with tanks not being viable ?

Cats Are FoodDec 16, 20181 votes

Give it time. I watched the build up to both Cinderhulk metas, and the first Tank Meta. They take a year or two each time. The only reason it didn't happen last season is due to the monstrous kite of the ADCs. The buffs to the ADCs that are coming won't be enough to tip assassins off the top spot, and in frustration people will do the only thing they CAN do... be hulks that chain lock the assassins.

Nobody likes running a bunch of tanks, but they will to survive the game.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20185 votes

thats not happening now.

its a bruiser/fighter meta with conqueror + ignite

and buffing adc damage dont make tanks stronger. cuz tanks are still bad top and in jungle

so if a tank is in a bad match up in top they are behind, get bullied and cant get the gold/items they need to be a tank therefore the damage that they are facing is stronger as they are playing from behind.

tanks cant clear jungle for shit right now and their ganks are typically weaker due to the damage and mobility in the jungle.

and buffing adcs and majority of those are CRIT base adcs who will all buy item 3031 means their will be more true damage in the game

one of the strongest adcs is getting buffs too. Ezreal the strongest adc Lucian isnt getting nerfed. and he benefits from item 3153 item 3071 build which is good vs tanks

then the buffs to vayne who has always been good vs high HP TARGETS aka TANKS

Cats Are FoodDec 16, 20181 votes

You're mistaking "stronger" for more viable. We will wait and see.

MrFawknSunshineDec 16, 20182 votes

if they are STRONGER then they are VIABLE over other champs

Cats Are FoodDec 16, 20181 votes

Why is Lucian more favored over Jinx? She hits harder, an ADCs job.

Why is Talon preferred over Zed in upper level play? Zed hits harder, an assassin's job.

Functionality is important. More important than most other things.

D4M2X0Dec 16, 20182 votes

how does buffing ADC's make tanks playable?

IT DOESNT!

IT JUST HELPS ADC'S KILL TANKS FASTER

TANKS ALREADY CANT DO SHIT VS ALL THESE BRUISERS/ASSASSINS

Dark VaatuDec 16, 20181 votes

yall need to understand if ADC do well Fighter, mage and assassin will fall off to ADC's dammage. Tanks can just peel them off for them.

RagnaveilDec 17, 20181 votes

Right, if they can survive for more than 5 seconds vs the meta shit that can easily carve them in less than 2 seconds, which the likely result will be them dying in less than two seconds if they are not a tank like Ali, Braum, or Sion.

Pandemic PunchDec 17, 20181 votes

ADC's primary job is to kill tanks. ADC's struggle vs divers. This will just encourage more divers and assassins to be picked. You don't pick tanks to fight ADC's.