Why is he still at 70% presence with 52+% win rate?
Crit ADCs were buffed back up on 9.3 and most of them are doing well in solo Q. Take for example Jinx who currently has a 53% win rate with over 15% pick rate.
I think anyone who is honest can agree that Crit ADCs aren't weak anymore. ADC+support has pretty much reclaimed the 2 v 8 status they had prior to 8.11 and then some.
Was/is Lucian still just really overpowered.
BALDG1VEN BOOMER13 votesNo, Lucian is strong because of his passive that Riot refuses to change despite it showing it’s problematic. This gives his dueling potential and out trades all ADCs not to mention he can proc things quickly that requires stacks like Braum passive, PtA, Cleaver etc.
The only time Lucian has been garbage was when his itemization has been garbage.
GigglesO6 votesBecause ADC mains lie about being weak.
Just like zoe and yasuo mains lie about being balanced.
Metal Janna5 votesI'm honestly disappointed in Riot for buffing crit itemization back up to improve the state of Marksmen. ADC is supposed to be the late game class Riot! Not the two-item class! You want to buff ADCs? Just give us late game back.
LTK KoRo1 votesor just nerf the 2 items spike since you guys still have most ridiculous lategame in the game
HàrrowR2 votes[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-20T20:12:40.413+0000)
I'm honestly disappointed in Riot for buffing crit itemization back up to improve the state of Marksmen. ADC is supposed to be the late game class Riot! Not the two-item class! You want to buff ADCs? Just give us late game back.
Oh no ADCs can play the game now, oh no please riot fix i want them to farm for 35 mins so they can win/lose one teamfight and finish the game.
hhaavviikk5 votesbecause Lucian is 1 of those rare champions that is strong at all stages of the game, why wouldn't such a champion be good
Stupafly5 votesAh the age old problem: Is Lucian strong because the rest suck? or do the rest suck because lucian is strong?
A Bad Nasus2 votesyes
Saianna4 votesCrit ADCs reclaimed their king of the hill spot not too long ago after the nerf actually. This whole "we are finally balancing crit adcs" was nothing more 1 step back and 2 steps forward with making sure everyone still thinks "they are weak, gotta buff 'em more".
The thigh guy3 votesI don’t see how Adc is stronger than is 8.11 but w/e
And Lucien is only strong because black cleaver is too strong an item. It needs the cdr either ripped off of it, or the armor shred nuked down. Bork also could do with some changes. Maybe have it’s lifesteal Not apply to the bonus damage from its passive.
Jaspers2 votesPassive melee only?
The thigh guy1 votesPassive melee only?
That just guts urgot, gnar, mf and a few other champions. And Bork simply cannot be made melee only. That would just result in an actual tank meta. (Not the tank meta people think is coming)
Daddy Ants2 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T21:24:31.708+0000)
That just guts urgot, gnar, mf and a few other champions. And Bork simply cannot be made melee only. That would just result in an actual tank meta. (Not the tank meta people think is coming)
MF can work with a crit build.
It guts her braindead lethality build sure.
The thigh guy1 votesMF can work with a crit build.
It guts her braindead lethality build sure.
I hate to break this too you buuuuut, mf’s lethality build is significantly harder to pull off, and is more easily countered. She has to actually land her q bounce to do anything.
LTK KoRo1 votesthey aren't obviously stronger than before 8.11, but they're broken again. Just a bit less broken.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-21T08:25:03.733+0000)
they aren't obviously stronger than before 8.11, but they're broken again. Just a bit less broken.
Not even close to broken. A midlaner will fuck any adc any day. Doesn’t matter how fed the Adc is unless it’s like 20+ kills.
LTK KoRo1 votesgood luck fucking any adc with pd+legend bloodline+overheal, burst mages don't work vs adcs anymore
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T17:11:51.768+0000)
good luck fucking any adc with pd+legend bloodline+overheal, burst mages don't work vs adcs anymore
That’s just a lie.
LTK KoRo1 votesunless you're incredibly far ahead you can't deal 1200-1800 (base hp)+300-600 (pd shield)+10% of max hp from overheal. In this time any crit adc will rampage. Tristana can kill any zhonyaless mage with bomb+4 autos after 2-3 items.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T18:56:44.503+0000)
unless you're incredibly far ahead you can't deal 1200-1800 (base hp)+300-600 (pd shield)+10% of max hp from overheal. In this time any crit adc will rampage. Tristana can kill any zhonyaless mage with bomb+4 autos after 2-3 items.
Overheal only works if they have time to auto minions before hand. That’s like saying zed Landing 3 shurican shouldn’t do 1/3 of my hp.
Also pd is rarely built in the first 2 items of an Adc. So if you chose not to build Zhonya in 3 items. That’s your poor assessment of a team.
Not to mention cc. Adc can’t do anything if you hard cc them. And they no longer have room for a early qss to stop it. And most mages hard hard cc.
1500 is not a lot for a burst mage to cut through with either electrocute or comet. So the pd shield is negated by runes alone.
General Matty1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-20T19:40:56.968+0000)
I don’t see how Adc is stronger than is 8.11 but w/e
And Lucien is only strong because black cleaver is too strong an item. It needs the cdr either ripped off of it, or the armor shred nuked down. Bork also could do with some changes. Maybe have it’s lifesteal Not apply to the bonus damage from its passive.
First, i can't understand your first sentence. Please correct it. second, the items don't need nerfs, Lucian himself needs nerfs.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-02-21T12:45:17.464+0000)
First, i can't understand your first sentence. Please correct it. second, the items don't need nerfs, Lucian himself needs nerfs.
It says “I don’t see how adcs are stronger than they were in 8.11, but whatever.
And second. No. He really doesn’t. If anything the only change he himself needs is to not be able to proc pta with his passive. Believe it or not the problem is black cleaver, Bork and pta. Armor shred was the stupidest idea rito ever had.
SuperTopLFBottom1 votesBlack cleaver one of the worst items in the game that not even its intented users want to build anymore is too strong of an item. Hum.
MAybe just MAYBE when ONE CHAMPION is CONSTANTLY a problem just MAYBE it's not the items but the champion?
The thigh guy1 votesBlack cleaver one of the worst items in the game that not even its intented users want to build anymore is too strong of an item. Hum.
MAybe just MAYBE when ONE CHAMPION is CONSTANTLY a problem just MAYBE it's not the items but the champion?
Or maybe, just maybe, it is the fucking items because even when they do nerf him, he still auto stomps lanes.
Or maybe it’s pta being instant proced.
Also love how I don’t see anyone complaining about Draven who basically auto wins most lanes.
Thimes3 votesUhh what buff? Crit ADC lost huge power spike that Stormrazor gave them, if anything they got nerfed in early mid game, where Lucian is at his strongest. The only crit ADC that profited from 9.3 early was Jinx, while Caitlyn and Tristana still at 48% winrates.
Flashes6 votesUhh what buff? Crit ADC lost huge power spike that Stormrazor gave them, if anything they got nerfed in early mid game, where Lucian is at his strongest. The only crit ADC that profited from 9.3 early was Jinx, while Caitlyn and Tristana still at 48% winrates.
Are you ACTUALLY INSANE?
You clearly either haven't touched an ADC for the past month or haven't understood what the purpose of an ADC is.
Thimes2 votesHere are some of current Crit ADC win rates for you: Caitlyn 48.08% Tristana 46.48% Jhin 48.28% Xayah 46.68% Only Jinx is decent and Sivir because she is good against AD-Casters.
Flashes2 votesHere are some of current Crit ADC win rates for you: Caitlyn 48.08% Tristana 46.48% Jhin 48.28% Xayah 46.68% Only Jinx is decent and Sivir because she is good against AD-Casters.
Ashe is at 52%
Kalista is at 51%
Twitch is at 52%
Xayah is still garbo because they removed the crit on Essence reaver, so there's no point in building it to suppliment her kit. I'm still mad about how they gutted Xayah and left her to rot.
Tristana is still garbo because her powerspike doesn't align with the new items, effectively making it a buff in some ways but a nerf in others.
Jhin isn't a traditional ADC. His crit chance was lowered, and he relied on Infinity Edge to maintain late game relevance against tankier bruisers. Now he doesn't stand a chance past 30 minutes.
Caitlyn feels lackluster because of the decrease in early crit chance, when she used to be able to get 2 crit items before Infinity Edge. As of now, her powerspike if using 1 crit item and Infinity edge is the exact same as her chance was before 8.11, and her ability to run 2 crit items then infinity edge has been taken away. As a result, she has to actually rush Infinity Edge first, which removes her attack speed headshot stacking power, and dramatically reduces her trading effectiveness.
Kai'sa is in the same boat as Caitlyn, but even worse, because of the 100 AD and 100% AS requirement forcing her to go Infinity Edge first THEN Rageblade THEN the FIRST attack speed crit item. Good thing her kit provides her with plenty of AS steroid, poke, and dueling power because if it wasn't overloaded she'd be way worse than Xayah.
Varus will never be good unless rageblade is good or lethality is good, so I don't consider him an actual crit ADC, much like Jhin.
First of all, don't cherry pick information. You left out 3 ADCs who are doing well with the crit changes. Second, think about WHY the winrates are still bad. Each champion is still weak for a specific reason. Whether that be the item pathing forcing them to choose a new path/playstyle that doesn't offer the same power, or the items shifting the times when they are powerful in exchange for a much weaker other phase.
Thimes2 votesI don't cherry pick information, I left those champions out because they are either BotRK champions or in meta for other reasons then crit items. But if you want, here we go:
Twitch has bottom lane pick rate of 2%, his win rate is skewed because mostly dedicated twitch players play him and he was already decent even before crit items changes because he goes BotRK first, he was just not meta.
Ashe still goes in most cases BotRK first and she was popular even before crit items in Korea as an ult-bot, it just carried over to NA/EUW and has not much to do with crit item changes.
Kalista is not even a crit ADC.
Basically BotRK champions are good and full crit champions are still garbage with exception of Jinx and Sivir for earlier mentioned reasons. Even before 8.11 crit ADC were not on the top of food chain, the meta was actually on-hit Varus and Kog'maw.
Glaricion1 votesYou talk about cherry-picking, but you leave out any other context to their winrates.
The average crit ADCs are usually king late-game even if they aren't as hypercarry as Twitch or Kog'maw. Their item path leaves them large swathes of time where their damage is only very slowly ramping up. IE powerspike, then they slowly ramp up their damage with zeal items, not getting another large spike in power until they are at 100% crit.
What happens in the meantime?
Lucian, an excellent lane bully who can afford to constantly ramp up his damage, constantly abuses them.
SpongebobIsLife2 votesthey actually put the crit back on ER.
Håneri1 votesbelieve it or not, lucian kaisa and ez are still the top 3 adcs, look at LCK match history
so you tell me what changed
Irelia Bot3 votesUhh what buff? Crit ADC lost huge power spike that Stormrazor gave them, if anything they got nerfed in early mid game, where Lucian is at his strongest. The only crit ADC that profited from 9.3 early was Jinx, while Caitlyn and Tristana still at 48% winrates.
And this is why trying to make marksmen happy is a impossible to do joke and a waste of resorces.
Håneri1 votesno because it goes the other way like 10 times more often lol
SuperTopLFBottom1 votesNot to mention how it ruins the game for everyone else who isn't adc/supp player.
Risk of Fate3 votes[deleted]
BALDG1VEN BOOMER11 votesLucian has been strong without Thresh, if anything Lucian and Braum is by far the scariest lane.
You literally can’t get tagged by one Braum Q or you’re simply dead
Risk of Fate1 votes[deleted]
BALDG1VEN BOOMER6 votesIt’s his passive that allows him to out trade any ADC and apply stacks of whatever fast such as PtA, Cleaver, Braum passive.
If PtA was really that bad as people are making it out would it still be a popular choice on Lucian? No, that’s because he can proc is quickly.
Remove/change his current passive and you’ll have a balanced champion.
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Risk of Fate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-20T20:16:59.543+0000)
One simple answer:
is meta. I don't think I've ever seen any Lucian tied to another support more than he is and they make the perfect pair. I see other picks, but it's almost exclusively the Warden with the Wife Hunter.
Thresh is the perfect play making tank that has a great engage, great disengage, great zoning, and probably one of the better escapes for their partner. He can pick a fight whenever he feels as long as he has a competent enough team.
Plus, crit only helped the mega hypercarries, the moderate ones like Xayah and Ashe are still suffering.
Ashe isn't suffering...
She's a very strong and very viable ADC.
Sir Saltarin2 votesAnd that's why he's getting a nerf tomorrow
BestPudgeNA2 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-20T20:16:36.731+0000)
And that's why he's getting a nerf tomorrow
Meme nerf LUL
Sir Saltarin3 votesSpoken as someome who has never played Lucian and ignores what makes him strong.
I do think he needs more nerfs, but it's far from being a meme nerf due to how fast he goes oom already.
AjXtar1 votesI have checked probuilds and lolalytics and almost nobody does max w or puts more points than 1 into that ability.
Sir Saltarin1 votesI never said that W is maxed (even though pro players as GRF Viper sometimes do it on some matchups)
But since I sometimes play him and specially play agaist him a lot I know that he usually picks W as first skill (but max Q then) to get the Mana Band procs easier because you practically cant evade the W poke through minions, you can play around the low range Q to denie his Mana Band procs but you cant be out of his W range on lane at all.
So yes, 20 more mana on W and a bit less dmg is not a meme nerf, but I do think that his Q ad ratio should be reverted from the buff he got on 8.17 (I think) because it wasn't needed by any means.
BestPudgeNA1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T01:54:23.173+0000)
Spoken as someome who has never played Lucian and ignores what makes him strong.
It's a partial revert of one of the 3 unnecessary buffs he was given. It's a meme nerf
Daddy Ants1 votesThe "nerf" has done nothing.
He's still the oppressive "you can't do shit against me" champion he was.