For how strong Xayah's DPS is, the burst on her E is pretty ridiculous

THE RlVER KlNG··56 votes·4,681 views

I've played against/with around a dozen or so Xayah's and there hasn't been a single instance in which she hasn't completely popped off and gotten insanely fed, completely dominating the late game.

She's like a Twitch who trades stealth for a huge root, except her AoE auto-attacks have little to no downtime with how low her CDs are. Even if you manage to catch up to her, she has two ways to completely nullify that with her E and ult, which is a pretty bonkers ability to put on an ADC if you really think about it.

I get that she's statistically balanced right now (like a 51% winrate with a 10% pickrate if I'm not mistaken), and I don't think she's broken or anything, but I've recently been playing against a few and she feels impossible to deal with as anyone melee because of how insane her kiting and utility is. It's certainly not very fun to deal with at all.

If Riot is open to any light nerfs I think her E damage needs to be reduced. Too many times have I finally caught up to her for me to instead be rooted and lose 1/3 or more of my health bar as she continues to whittle me down with her W. If I'm forced to sidestep I lose momentum and either run straight into someone else or have to watch as she zooms away. Sometimes its impossible to even sidestep the feathers, because of how large of an arc they can easily cover. Anyways my main point is that she's designed to be this absolute DPS powerhouse because of her passive and such, but her E lets her completely destroy opponents with the touch of a button as well. It goes against the design.

I hesitate to compare her to Kalista but she really feels like it - hard to catch, has CC, and super punishing stacking damage while also being relatively safe. Certainly not as badly designed, but just about as frustrating to play against.

A lot of streamers I watch play her and she seems really popular at high elos with retired pros like qtipie and Doublelift, who play her often, even over Lucian. She also does really well and can _beat _ Lucian and Caitlyn, which is probably why she's strong in this meta, but the general consensus seems that she's really strong right now and a really good generalist pick like Caitlyn. (her mana costs are also egregiously low) Just wanted to add that here.

101 Comments

Puttyblo33 votes

I think it's more she just exploits a flaw in the current game where people are just blatantly stupid and chase.

Almost all of Xayah's damage is dodgeable and requires positioning + pathing + kiting to even pull off. If you get rid of the damage for her pay off she'd be next to useless. It's more or less the same thing with Illaoi If you nerf her damage, what exactly is she even good for?

I know some would argue that she has her ults special little gimmick, but if her ult was truly as broken as people made it out to be she wouldn't be sittin at a 50% winrate that was originally 47%. Lucian and Kogmaw have no utility at all and are pushing 51-4% winrate and actually have no real bad match up.

THE RlVER KlNG13 votes

Thanks for calling anyone who tries to fight Xayah 'blatantly stupid'. I'd call this comment completely incoherent aside from the Illaoi comment, although Xayah and Illaoi are not comparable in the slightest. Xayah has way more utility and is a ranged champion, whereas Illaoi is designed exclusively to stand in a small circular area and kill people.

If I can't engage on her immediately because of her ult, and can't chase because of E, how am I ever supposed to kill this champion, eh?

Xayah's damage is 'dodgeable' in that if you can go untargetable/dash 40521 times you can get out of her wide fan of feathers. If you're anyone melee who can't do that you're fucked, same for a good many ADCs as well.

Puttyblo5 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXTEHy01,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-05-28T02:28:47.528+0000)

Thanks for calling anyone who tries to fight Xayah 'blatantly stupid'. I'd call this comment completely incoherent aside from the Illaoi comment, although Xayah and Illaoi are not comparable in the slightest. Xayah has way more utility and is a ranged champion, whereas Illaoi is designed exclusively to stand in a small circular area and kill people.

If I can't engage on her immediately because of her ult, and can't chase because of E, how am I ever supposed to kill this champion, eh?

Xayah's damage is 'dodgeable' in that if you can go untargetable/dash 40521 times you can get out of her wide fan of feathers. If you're anyone melee who can't do that you're fucked, same for a good many ADCs as well.

Um, they actually are the same.

Illaoi Every single one of her abilities aside from W is a skill shot, all of her damage revolves around tentacles that are extremely telegraphed and dodgeable. Her ult that you speak of that is the "center of her playstyle involving a circle" also is more just a lower elo luxury. Illaoi's true strength comes from cursing people to get as many tentacles out as possible while her team sieges you down and then when you're overwhelmed she exerts extreme punishing force upon you. However, if your team dodges the tentacles and plays her minigame she becomes an extremely underwhelming champion. This is exactly why the vast majority of the threads that cried for her damage to be cut down were essentially ignored. It's simply because That's all she has.

Xayah Her Q is dodgeable. She even has a telegraphed hop + delay before firing them. They will always go in a straight line of where she's facing, so merely stepping to the side dodges it. Every auto attack she does sends a feather in the initial direction of the attack. With that in mind, and the fact she needs 3 feathers to root you means that if you move in a Z fashion she can never ever snare you. To escalate this further her E is designed to collapse like so "V" meaning it's easier to dodge all of her damage by being directly in front of her, and when she does her sweet animation you just step to the side. And yes, it is that easy. This leaves you with the fact the only actual damage she can get off is with her W.

You put two and two together and they are in fact pretty much the same champion. If you take away really any of her damage at all there's actually no reason to ever play this champion. Situational CC, extreme positional requirement, situational damage output, low range???? If I'm going to go with all of that, I'd rather just play KogMaw . MissFortune . Then I look at winrates in OP.GG and loandbehold they both hold higher winrates. Then we escalate this further and look at Caitlyn and wonder why you'd ever play Xayah when this champ is a bigger lane bully with more utility + a really strong late game curve.

So yeah, if your game plan is to run straight at a kiting champion, and then cry when you die to her E because you refuse to maneuver even a little bit you're blatantly stupid. I'm guessing you're the same person who stands in Illaoi's ult and wonders why you die. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Rexxiee4 votes

{quoted}

Um, they actually are the same.

Illaoi Every single one of her abilities aside from W is a skill shot, all of her damage revolves around tentacles that are extremely telegraphed and dodgeable. Her ult that you speak of that is the "center of her playstyle involving a circle" also is more just a lower elo luxury. Illaoi's true strength comes from cursing people to get as many tentacles out as possible while her team sieges you down and then when you're overwhelmed she exerts extreme punishing force upon you. However, if your team dodges the tentacles and plays her minigame she becomes an extremely underwhelming champion. This is exactly why the vast majority of the threads that cried for her damage to be cut down were essentially ignored. It's simply because That's all she has.

Xayah Her Q is dodgeable. She even has a telegraphed hop + delay before firing them. They will always go in a straight line of where she's facing, so merely stepping to the side dodges it. Every auto attack she does sends a feather in the initial direction of the attack. With that in mind, and the fact she needs 3 feathers to root you means that if you move in a Z fashion she can never ever snare you. To escalate this further her E is designed to collapse like so "V" meaning it's easier to dodge all of her damage by being directly in front of her, and when she does her sweet animation you just step to the side. And yes, it is that easy. This leaves you with the fact the only actual damage she can get off is with her W.

You put two and two together and they are in fact pretty much the same champion. If you take away really any of her damage at all there's actually no reason to ever play this champion. Situational CC, extreme positional requirement, situational damage output, low range???? If I'm going to go with all of that, I'd rather just play KogMaw . MissFortune . Then I look at winrates in OP.GG and loandbehold they both hold higher winrates. Then we escalate this further and look at Caitlyn and wonder why you'd ever play Xayah when this champ is a bigger lane bully with more utility + a really strong late game curve.

So yeah, if your game plan is to run straight at a kiting champion, and then cry when you die to her E because you refuse to maneuver even a little bit you're blatantly stupid. I'm guessing you're the same person who stands in Illaoi's ult and wonders why you die. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Xayah does so much more aoe dps than cait lol, cait is basically single target.

Xayah is basically a twitch with a very strong early game and infinite waveclear, thats why shes overpowered.

Puttyblo5 votes

{quoted}

Xayah does so much more aoe dps than cait lol, cait is basically single target.

Xayah is basically a twitch with a very strong early game and infinite waveclear, thats why shes overpowered.

Oh, look. It's Rexsaur the biased Cait main that spends every season swearing Caitlyn's underpowered as she pops countless people in the face with Runaan's headshot procs.

Ahristocats5 votes

except that this time he's right

xayah is busted, at least in high elo but you can't get this because you're not in high elo, you will just state her win rate when multiple champions were nerfed with 49% win rate

Puttyblo6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXTEHy01,comment-id=000600000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T09:05:41.001+0000)

except that this time he's right

xayah is busted, at least in high elo but you can't get this because you're not in high elo, you will just state her win rate when multiple champions were nerfed with 49% win rate

If she was busted in high elo she'd be constantly seen in competitive and IMAQTPIE/Dlift and friends would have her on a constant rotation. Instead it's one-two games here and there of XAYAH and the rest is almost exclusively Cait + Lucian.

Since those are pre' much the two best ADCS I'm curious what you seem to consider high elo, since you know, you're in extreme garbage ELO compared to them.

Ahristocats2 votes

{quoted}

If she was busted in high elo she'd be constantly seen in competitive and IMAQTPIE/Dlift and friends would have her on a constant rotation. Instead it's one-two games here and there of XAYAH and the rest is almost exclusively Cait + Lucian.

so cait+lucian being broken and being nerfed, makes xayah balanced?

{quoted}

Since those are pre' much the two best ADCS I'm curious what you seem to consider high elo, since you know, you're in extreme garbage ELO compared to them.

Xayah isn't picked in competitive because she isn't viable in competitive for now, and will be viable in world please shut up if you're ignorant

Puttyblo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXTEHy01,comment-id=00060000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T14:13:56.187+0000)

so cait+lucian being broken and being nerfed, makes xayah balanced?

Xayah isn't picked in competitive because she isn't viable in competitive for now, and will be viable in world please shut up if you're ignorant

You just said she's super busted OP, and is the bees kneez of high elo.

So, she's not viable in competitive, and she's not being pick banned in high elo, and two of the best ADCS in the world don't religiously pick her ((And they really only do play the strongest of ADCS on a regular rotation)). You've been proven wrong. Deal with it.

Now with all of that said, if I look at your OP.GG I have a 90% chance that I'm going to see you running something extremely stupid which is going to make you blatantly biased, what do you think the odds are?

And oh there it is, you play Darius bot lane. You can't religiously cheese your way to victory against a champion who doesn't give you the satisfaction of level 2 cheese so it's immediately "busted in high elo" Ecks. Dee. You guys make this way too easy.

Ahristocats3 votes

{quoted}

So, she's not viable in competitive,

SHE ISNT VIABLE BECAUSE SHE'S DISABLED FFS

do you at least know how pro scene works? LMFAO

Puttyblo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXTEHy01,comment-id=0006000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T14:24:03.573+0000)

SHE ISNT VIABLE BECAUSE SHE'S DISABLED FFS

do you at least know how pro scene works? LMFAO

We both know she wouldn't be viable in competitive not because she's disabled but because she's inconsistent. You're never going to pick her over Ashe/Varus/Jhin/Cait/Luc unless you have no other option.

You also just tried to flutter over everything else because you have nothing useful to retort back.

Since you have absolutely nothing useful to say, your "low elo" excuse didn't work, and we both know why I know why you're QQING you might as well just not bother talking. Good day because I'm not responding to you anymore.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

I agree with you on this

they aren't understanding the situation

AgentBlack17 votes

No, he said blatantly chasing Xayah is stupid, which it is. He also didn't say Xayah and Illaoi are comparable Champions, he just used Illaoi to make a point about Champions with set-up damage. Why make a "discussion" thread like this if you'll just make excuses to ignore good counterarguments?

Sp33d Zer019 votes

Would you intentionally run into teemo shrooms while fighting him? Would you stand in the middle of a bunch of zyra plants when her ult goes off on them? Would you ignore daisy if ivern is fighting you? Would you continue to brawl with draius when he gets his 5th stack of bleed? Would you run into Gangplank barrels on purpose? Would you run into caitlyn traps in the middle of a teamfight? Would you flash into a blitz hook? Would you stand still while a kog'maw auto's you? Would you dive a full HP Nautilus at level 6 with no back up?

I feel like all of these are obvious things you do not do, and chasing a Xayah into a path that she can set up 5+ feathers to clip you is one of those things you do not do.

Fefnil2 votes

item 3070 Singed item 3070

MohawkBird6 votes

[deleted]

MetalGearTeemu2 votes

That sounds great, a carry with enormous sustained damage that you dont actually want to try and get to. She'll absolutely run roughshot over LCS for a couple weeks and then she'll get nerfed. the cycle continues.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

wow okay then ill just never kill the hypercarry and let her run free because im not allowed to get close to her

Joxcab1 votes

Or you'd pick someone who's meant to kill a hypercarry in the first place maybe? Like an assassin who can jump and delete her whenever her ultimate's on cooldown or even when it's up if they play smart? Or a mage who can just instantly delete her from range with CC + burst + range? Or just have the tank engage and CC her first?

Are you trolling or are you just that thirsty for upvotes?

korg0232 votes

i can count on all my body fingers how many times my team just stood in Illaoi ulti and typed in chat "WTF DMG AND HEAL" dude you just need to walk out of her ult until it expires and then go back and kill her.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

{quoted}

Kogmaw have no utility at all and are pushing 51-4% winrate and actually have no real bad match up.

???????????? An MR/Armor shred, an aoe slow, and a reveal aren't utility?

Praetor Notorias1 votes

What I see the most is an adc with zero concept of lane control and they push push push push into the xayah and she just fucks them up cause the feathers are ALWAYS behind them. I tell the adc the same thing when there's a xayah on the otherside. Don't die. Just don't. Don't go 1 for 1 cause Xayah wins in that.

But she's like any other adc, enough CC and they aren't going anywhere except back to the fountain.

Ahristocats12 votes

She's not balanced at all, quite using win rate as an indicator of balance galio is going to be nerfed with 49% win rate and i can tell you that he is not balanced right now

Xayah has 35% ban rate for a reason, and in high elo she's almost always banned

THE RlVER KlNG6 votes

I'm saying statistically balanced, to appease the inevitable Xayah mains who will come onto this thread touting those exact numbers.

Personally I think she IS too strong but you have to be diplomatic sometimes if you want your thread to be visible.

Ahristocats7 votes

i already read your thread, and i said quite using win rate as an indicator of balance, i know that you said she is statistically balanced

Xayah E damage is strong but needs to stay that way, the design was xayah putting feathers and then nuking you by drawing them back, counterplay is being mobile

What she needs is A HUGE MANA COST change because in early game she can just spam spells harasses+waveclear making her early game decent for such a hyper carry

P Z1 votes

That's no counter play.

You use a mobility tool to sidestep you aren't gaining any ground on her, so even if you avoid the E you still have to contend with her AAs, her W and if necessary (or preferred) her R.

Which pretty much leaves you with the option of running away with her feathers tucked behind your legs or you know, dying. She's more independent and overall effective than Caitlyn while having a drastically lower skill cap, oh and guess what? Functional combat ultimate that puts her ahead of the Assassins which are supposed to be killing the semi-vulnerable Mages and Marksmen.

Cosmic Warper8 votes

[{quoted}](name=P Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXTEHy01,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-28T00:04:26.615+0000)

That's no counter play.

You use a mobility tool to sidestep you aren't gaining any ground on her, so even if you avoid the E you still have to contend with her AAs, her W and if necessary (or preferred) her R.

Which pretty much leaves you with the option of running away with her feathers tucked behind your legs or you know, dying. She's more independent and overall effective than Caitlyn while having a drastically lower skill cap, oh and guess what? Functional combat ultimate that puts her ahead of the Assassins which are supposed to be killing the semi-vulnerable Mages and Marksmen.

You don't need to use a mobility spell to get away from her feathers... the fuck lmao. Her feathers are very thin and can be easily sidestepped with a simple micro movement.

crippler383 votes

I just wish they were easier to see, because they're easily forgettable.

P Z1 votes

Cool story if you're ranged.

If you're melee, get fucked. Whether you use a mobility tool or sidestep, Xayah can sidestep in the opposite direction meaning you're basically helping her kite you.

SnakDatSmilesBak4 votes

I agree, hitting her incredibly strong early waveclear is the way to go. Her feathers and her e reward careful management and thought, therefore while it is strong i think it should stay.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Yeah, Xayah's perform is a bit interesting. While champion.gg might not be the best source, she's listed as second best ADC performance wise, but why? Could her high AoE damage be the cause or is she actually powerful (Eg: GP is high performance because of his high amount of gold income to confuse the numbers.)

King of Demons9 votes

And then you sidestep it

Targon8 votes

She's probably be pick/ban at the summer split this year and then she'll receive some nerfs.

Her burst is too high in my opinion and giving burst to the class that's supposed to deal sustained damage has only caused balancing issues.

FiddlesOnTheRoof8 votes

Dominating games with that 50% win rate. And no, Cait destroys her. She's her strongest counter.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

As JxR said above, you can have champions that deserve nerfs who are within 49-51% winrate range.

She has a huge ban rate at high elo and a very healthy pick rate. Just because her winrate says 50% does not mean she is balanced.

FiddlesOnTheRoof1 votes

Yes, I agree. But the OP claiming she's "dominated every game he's seen her in" is clearly a stretch. She needs nerfed. Early e damage or early mana costs, imo

Dextix LT3 votes

So make an ability that punishes stupidity less punishing? hat would be the purpose of that?

Qukslice8 votes

Funny how while you guys have been complaining about about Xayah, I've beat every Xayah I laned as an ADC main.

You'd think that a dumb Silver 2 would've had no chance in hell of beating an "OP, Overtuned, Overloaded pile of shit" but here I am.

I wonder why?

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Wow, you're low elo and have won against X champion?

Pray, regale us with more stories of your legendary skill and knowledge!

Dextix LT5 votes

Wow, you have lost against X champion many times?

Pray, regale us with more stories about how that X champion is op!

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

You'll notice that wasn't even my main point, it was an anecdote?

The people on this thread......

Dextix LT3 votes

It was the response to the comment, not the thread.

And the point the comment was making was stupid, nothing more.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

The point Qukslice was making was even stupider, not to mention condescending and passive-agressive.

You are implying I only made this thread because I've lost to Xayah a bunch of times? I've lost to plenty of champions, in fact, each and every one in the game. I put up a thread postulating that she may be too strong and gave some reasons for my claim. Your comment makes no sense.

Dextix LT2 votes

Not gonna argue with that, both his point and yours were not good.

And no, my comment was made in response of the COMMENT not the THREAD as i said in PREVIOUS comment.

IcyPepper7 votes

I've played against/with around a dozen or so Xayah's and there hasn't been a single instance in which she hasn't completely popped off and gotten insanely fed, completely dominating the late game.

http://champion.gg/champion/Xayah/ADC?league=

She seems middle of the pack in the kills and damage department while falling off slightly in the late-game.

The data of thousands of games seems to contradict your anecdotal evidence.

However, having too much burst can be a thing so that doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong, but using your games as a reference doesn't come off as credible.

Raiyza5 votes

I mean if you're allowing that many feathers behind you then something is wrong.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

Yeah, wish I had control of the enemy Xayah too so I could make her stop moving and casting spells.

Gee, wish I could just force her to stop proccing her passive with how low her CDs are.

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

You could step to the side. They're only a problem if you're between Xayah and 4+ feathers.

Teemodanegro3 votes

Xayah is fine.

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