I feel like I should stop playing Nidalee

Reynard the ƒox··3 votes·1,327 views

Everytime I play her I end up feeling like a different champion would have been more beneficial to the team. When i play her mid I typically feel that My Azir play would have been better for his utility, and when I play her top I end up feeling like I should have played Irelia for her anti-carry burst and/or frontlining potential. I haven't really played her in the Jungle yet, but why would I pick her over my main Wukong, who provides team-wide utility and damage?

Nidalee's really flippin' fun to play, but I just feel like im crippling my team by picking her in ranked. Maybe I'm just Silver and don't know how to play her right.

17 Comments

thinking man3 votes

Yeah it's since you're silver since she's one of the most goddamn broken junglers in the game right now.

Reynard the ƒox3 votes

What makes her Jungling broken? My Silver eyes see a champion with no CC and assumes they're a trash tier Jungler. Genuinely curious. I know I'm bad just trying to learn something new about an old favorite of mine.

Fox Tango2 votes

Looking at Kaellrus 's Match history he played a game with Neso Cat, a Plat 1 Nidalee main. He has been taking her jungle with a 75% winrate out of 30 games with her in season 5. In the game they played together Neso cat secured 23 kills to 8 deaths, but ultimately they lost the game. Perhaps Kaellrus could give insight.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/27702107#ranked-stats

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

See that's kind of why I want to stop playing her altogether. Imagine if, instead of Nidalee, he had the teamfighting power of Wukong's Cyclone, or the peel provided by Lee Sin's R, or the lockdown that JarvanIV and Vi bring.

I'll try it for myself and see how it goes in my Elo. Thanks for replying!

Fox Tango2 votes

No problem! I am doing a lot of this research to help me better understand my wide champion pool and bringing it down to whats fun and viable. :D

Anatharion1 votes

He's obviously a great player judging by his insane winning percentage on all his champions. And great players can make any good champion look good.

Look at his Ahri 3-0. And his Leblanc is 85% win rate. His Nidalee thought he's played a lot more games is 75%.

Nidalee is balanced and fun as hell right now.

thinking man1 votes

[{quoted}](name=a god damn hero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWAtfppE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-06T02:28:19.119+0000)

What makes her Jungling broken? My Silver eyes see a champion with no CC and assumes they're a trash tier Jungler. Genuinely curious. I know I'm bad just trying to learn something new about an old favorite of mine.

A combination of the fact that she has insane burst at all stages with good poke late-game and takes no damge in the jungle.

Fox Tango1 votes

I think she is a Niche pick. She brings high mobility to the jungle and can provide more pressure to lanes even with a thrown javelin. If you miss, then transision back to jungle camps or the next lane gank while the enemy team thinks they know where you are. Correct me if I am wrong, but I suppose the best time to gank for Wukong is when your ultimate is up. Nidalee can gank without a cooldown restriction. Mid lane meta has shifted in low MMR to champions that had a lot of burst without DFG. Cassiopeia Ahri being popular for carrying games counter a lot of the play style of nidalee who has to all in to be effective. A lot of dual AP comps in TOP and Mid lane also makes picks like Kassadin popular. These make a strong case against Nidalee being in the mid or top lane. Low MMR allows you to take Nidalee as a support, but if you dont get ahead in lane is a dangerous risk. Especially when peel supports like Janna and Leona are popular. With this I feel that the jungle is one of the best places for her, assuming that at least one of your laners in the mid and top lane are bringing some AD to the fights.

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

This may or may not work in higher Elo, but with Wukong I do a lane gank bot after my first b, so I have Red Buff and Cold Smite. It turns kills often enough in Silver for me. The 'best' time to gank is with your ult up, but E-aa-Q does enough damage to give my laner an advantage even without scoring a kill. I guess what I got from your post is that I would play Nidalee more or less the same way I play Wukong in the early game; gank when you have a chance and try to do as much damage to the laner as possible.

Provengreil1 votes

with no CC, a nid "gank" can be as easy as chucking a spear from an unexpected direction for enough damage to let your laner breathe easy. and it can happen ANY TIME. I havent used or seen it myself, but that's my first impression.

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

That's more or less exactly how Wukong ganks work.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Actually she brings a ton of utility to the team in the form of instantly murdering them and then jumping away. She has super strong long range poke and high burst, also a heal :D.

She is doing very well as a Jungler right now, she can throw a spear from outside ward range and deal 3/4th's of their life then hop in and execute them then take the turret and go to another lane.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

your main jungle is wukong? ok could you give me some tips i wanna learn this guy jungle i just cant quite figure it out in the new jung

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

While I do have what I would consider an admirable w/l and k/d ratio with Wukong jungle over the Season 3, 4, and 5, I should let you know that I've never been higher than Gold 1. That being said, I might not be the most qualified to give advice on gameplay.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

i honestly dont really care what rank someone is. so if you could give me a few tips that would help

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

I start on the bottom side of the map always, although I think this is the norm with any jungler. On Red side I farm Gromp, Blue, Wolves, then go kill Krugs with smite. on Blue side I kill Krugs, Red, then go do Wolves and smite Gromp. I drop a ward on my top side buff, then recall. If the enemy jungler knows anything about Jungle Wukong, they'll try to take your top side buff because they'll know you have to b. But in Silver no one knows nor do they try. When I get back I get Cold Smite and go take my top side buff. Afterward I immediately walk to a lane and try to gank, because with both Red and Cold Smite you can mitigate the lack of CC in Wukong's QWE skills and give you a surprising amount of potential for first blood. I usually like to go to bottom lane for this gank attempt, because the enemy support or ADC will be squishy, and my support will likely have a CC that is easier to hit once I've applied Red and Cold Smite slows. Just be sure that your top laner understands that, because you must go b before top side buff, you will not be available to countergank if the enemy jungler comes. It is for this reason that Wukong jungle will never catch on with the pros, because he has an extremely predictable path.

In the event that a jungler takes your top side buff while you recall, don't sweat it too much. All it means is you can't get your level 3 gank off. Just farm the small camps and watch out for over extended enemies. Also, now that you're level 3, remember this: wait until you see the jungle camp winding up it's aa animation to use your clone. It'll cause the monster to re-target and restart it's animation, which means less total attacks performed by the monster. When ganking before level 6, keep in mind that Wukong has alot of base damage in his kit, with both an Armor Shred and Attack Speed Boost, so even getting your E-aa-Q combo on a mid or top laner only to have them dash away is a success, because you've likely dealt 20% of their health or more to them, which gives your laner some breathing room if they were behind, or kill potential for later if they were ahead. That's about all there is to jungling before level 6.

Once you hit level 6, go bot to ult and then do Dragon. Inform your bot lane of the plan so they don't try to recall or keep farming after the gank. With the damage and utility provided by your R you are almost ensured a kill. However, the goal here is merely to send the enemy bot lane back to base, so under no circumstances should you dive or chase. With the enemy bot lane either dead or coming out of base, it's time for you and your bot lane to collect a free Dragon. Note that on one of your trips to base you should have gotten a pink ward and some green wards if you can afford them. Never, ever, attempt an early dragon without True Sight in the pit, as Wukong or any other jungler. The exception is if you see that the enemy jungler is on the to side of the map, because in that case you'll be done with Dragon before he can run down and attempt a steal.

That's my formula for every game levels 1-6. Just remember you are weak in the jungle as compared to other, more popular champions, so don't get flustered if they invade you. Just remember that you have excellent scaling, damage, and utility in fights and just do your very best to stay up in farm and levels if you get behind. Your ultimate will almost always be useful to the team even if you are not fed.

Once you're 6 your job is to keep your farm up while you wait for your ult to come off CD, and also to be cognizant of any potential ganks you could perform without your ult, whether it be on an over extended enemy or with the help of a laner's CC. It's also your job to maintain Dragon control. You should never not be aware of the Dragon timer, and you should never go top side or b if Dragon has 90 seconds or less to spawn. Always take care of top lane ganks or trips to the shop while there are 6-2 minutes left on the timer. Of course, at this point I'm just giving general Jungle tips. I can give General Wukong tips (hehe) too if you like. I've been playing him since 2012.

Feel free to LoLKing me and take a look at my masteries. I have a page called 'Damage Jungle', which I use if I think I can get fed, and one called 'Beef Jungle' if I know I need to be a frontliner/initiator for my team. I've got another one called '3 Pot Jungle' which delves deep into the Support tree for the +40 starting gold, which allows for a third Health Pot at spawn. I don't think it's an optimal page. For runes, I use the one called 'Jungle' pretty much every time. The movement speed Quints help you get from camp to camp, and allow you to more easily chase down targets. Plus, your R grants movement speed, which compounds with your Quints for a very speedy monkey. Attack Speed Reds help you clear camps and compound with the Attack Speed buff your E has. Sometimes If I'm feeling ballsy I'll use the rune page called 'Attack Damage'. Since Wukong has two abilities that scale with more than 100% total AD, the 15 damage you get from the page goes a long way. I usually like Attack Speed and Movement Speed for utility, however. I use Armor Yellows and Magic Resist/Level Blues on all my Rune Pages.

Leveling skills for Jungle Wukong is the same as Lane Wukong. Max E first because it is both your gap closer for ganks and your Attack Speed buff to clear camps with, and Q for damage, and lastly W. I'm quite certain it goes without saying, but take a point in your R at every opportunity.

In a standard game, my first three items are Mercury Treads, Blue Jungle Item with Red Enchantment, and Sunfire Cape. I like Sunfire Cape on him because it add to the the AoE damage you deal while you ult. The order of purchase depends on the game, and which type of resistance I need to deal with a fed enemy. If no enemies are fed, or you yourself are fed, go for Red enchantment first to keep up the pressure. After those three, I get Black Cleaver, Randuin's Omen, and Banshee Veil. Again this is assuming that they have more or less equal amounts of mixed damage. If you're significantly behind, or your team really needs a tank, get the Green Jungle Enchantment. Never build 6 tank items on Wukong though. Still get the Black Cleaver, because the % Armor Shred is not only for you but for your team as well. Imagine you get a perfect R off, reducing the armor of the entire enemy team by 15-25%. Your ADC will have a field day. So if you need to be extra beefy and have to choose between Red Enchantment and Black Cleaver, get Black Cleaver.

I'm sure you're smart enough to know how to build if the enemy team's damage is skewed heavily to either Magic or Physical. Similarly to how you don't want more than 5 tank items, you also don't want more than 2 damage items, your Red Enchantment and Black Cleaver. If you invest too heavily in damage you'll die too quickly in fights, and as Jungle Wukong your team needs you to stay alive, especially if you're fighting over a Dragon or Baron.

I guess that's it. If I keep going the tips won't be relevant to Wukong Jungle and will start just being overall Wukong tips. I didn't think I'd type this much, so if you read to the end I appreciate it.

Hope I helped.

AsphodelNext1 votes

The recent jungle buff was huge, her clear time is just so much better now. I remember right after rework, seeing level 1 kitty and thinking AOE clear in jungle, then being disappointed with no passive proc. But now, she can hit a spear on an immobile jungle creep and combo her cougar abilities with Pounce resets. Crazy fast, almost manaless clear, with sustain from her heal.

As for why Nidalee jungle works without CC, it's because she provides a very different role than junglers with CC like Wukong. She doesn't have initiation, but she has excellent poke and mobility, along with execute damage after she hits her spear. Compare to an assassin jungle like Kha'zix or Rengar; not all junglers have CC. Nidalee is like an assassin; eventually, she will hit a spear and maybe kitty pounce and get a kill, or just jump back and repeat.

Here's some LCS jungle Nidalee play. She's been getting popular ever since her jungle buff went through. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NU1FAIFBgc You can see how Nidalee counterjungles, using her mobility to jump Dragon pit. Then, she uses her assassin damage to take down Elise by surprise, closing in with boosted Pounce. Later in the game, she continues to go deep into Elise's jungle, taking her blue knowing that she can get out with jumps.

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