https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/_86150e45c9ff4cc522ad6784bca59f70-png.jpg Seriously Riot?
Edit 1: if they said they're were gonna remove it because it was buggy and that they would add more power to parts of his kit to compensate for the loss instead or change the way it works I be fine with it (aka his knock up on his e), other wise this is abysmal to see happening to a champ that is already in a bad state as it is.
Krully90 voteslul what do you expect from the guys who reworked champs by swapping ability and passive
EROTIC RAID BOSS61 votesthe alistar mini rework was really good though
Dynamiku Entry9 votesSo was malzahar
resumed19 votesmalzahar didnt have damage reduction and cc immunity on his w
DeathBot6668 votesBut his passive became his W and his old W was added into his ulti, so I can see where he's coming from.
Dynamiku Entry6 votesExactly, literally Malz's passive was given to his e and moved E to Ult. This is a fact. There is no opinion or debate involved. Why am I downvoted for stating a fact Jesus people are fucking stupid. Don't downvote my comment just because YOU lack the reading comprehension to understand it.
Stephenizgod2 votesActually! His Passive was moved to his W and his W was moved to his Ult, i mean read the comment you responded too... it says so right there. And the Malzahar rework was and is terrible, he is worse in literally every way.
Dynamiku Entry1 votesAnd I didn't fucking say that he did, now did I? So what is your point, stain?
resumed3 votesu ok?
WoonStruck51 votesAnd how often have they left unintended 'bugs' in the game because 'its cool and adds skill-ceiling'?
Lee/kat (before rework)/jax wardhopping
Riven animation canceling
Riven CC canceling
Displacement over-riding via ez, trist, etc.
Riot doesn't fix everything. They're kinda known for that selective treatment.
Dengeden23 votesOnly this is a bug that's a nerf, so that's no analogous in the slightest.
ShinobisDemon2 votesOnly this is a bug that's a nerf, so that's no analogous in the slightest.
not really a nerf bc the bugs been around since august. he's going to be the same as he was for the last couple months.
Lauchmelder4 votesCompletely gutted? At least fix this bug and make him a bit viable again then?
Surfer Ashe2 votesThat's a bit different but sure, use any excuse to get triggered and go on a tangent.
WoonStruck6 votesThe only one that looks like they're using an excuse to get triggered and go on a tangent is you lol.
What are you even talking about?
Sand Clone5 votesThe only one that looks like they're using an excuse to get triggered and go on a tangent is you lol.
What are you even talking about?
it's not a trigger, it's like yi not be able to dodge abilities in his alpha is part of the game, but they fixed that bug after so long. its hypocrisy on riot's part.
TheRealBaz12 votesAnd how often have they left unintended 'bugs' in the game because 'its cool and adds skill-ceiling'?
Lee/kat (before rework)/jax wardhopping
Riven animation canceling
Riven CC canceling
Displacement over-riding via ez, trist, etc.
Riot doesn't fix everything. They're kinda known for that.
did they actually say they were keeping the cc cancelling?
WoonStruck12 votesIts been there for a long time, people have brought it up now and again, although it never caught fire, and Riot still hasn't addressed this easily reproduce-able bug, despite being notified about it before.
Same with stuff like Nocturne's R sometimes not doing damage.
Gregor Gysi5 votesThe only public CC cancel was Riven vs Pulls namely the BC hook. But seeing how you could've dodged it with the E anyways it was never important to be able to do it so it was never a priority to fix. Adrian recently posted a video in which he made public how far the bug goes and it was news to basically everyone (on the rivenmains subreddit the only known bug was the BC pull and there are several challengers/master players).
Within one day of the video being public Riot said that they'd fix it.
RiotNot Surrendering45 votesSo a few things here.
It's not laziness. We can add the e functionality in (and we were considering just fixing the bug and adding it in). However, we looked back at when the bug was introduced and determined there was no impact on winrate as expected (given how infrequently 60hp off E shield is the difference between life and death).
There's questions whether azir should even have the shield at all. It promotes strange laning patterns, such as when Leblanc is beating the hell out of you that the optimal play is to E at her to knock her out of W, get a big shield and out trade her. (One of the reasons we removed the knock up in season 5 to open up a wider range of champions that can fight him in lane and stop him scaling).
Having said that, the shield does a lot of good things for incentivising azir to go for aggressive shurima shuffles. During development, one of the reasons the ultimate even has damage and the E has shield and knockup is to incentivise him to use it aggressively occasionally.
We would prefer to buff Azir in places that we are happy supporting rather than adding power back into something we have a possibility of removing later (e shield). For example, his turret is unique and has strategic value, his soldiers are a big part of his base pattern and his ultimate damage would incentivise him to go for more risky plays. Having said that, we have problems saying what is the actual correct spot to put power without taking power from somewhere else. (A pure buff is bound to cause problems somewhere).
For example, if we improve his ultimate damage to incentivise risky plays, we also improve his strength for normal team fights which can lead to a lot of frustration (Eg. I fight at range, get poked out and die, I fight up close, I get bursted and die.) An example solution would be to reduce Q range while buffing ult damage, but now we've added a nerf to the changelist.
Having health scaling on the E sends weird optimisation messages. We don't want azir feeling bad about building zhonyas or abysmal because it's losing efficiency due to not having health on it.
So yeah, kinda went on a tangent off that one, but just wanted to give the thoughts on what we were thinking and some of the considerations when working on Azir. We did give him a small buff in the hotfix on 14 December so he wouldn't be awful over Christmas, but not large enough that he solely dominates competitive again.
Peace.
Photos of Ghosts4 votesWhy do you keep supporting the Shurima Shuffle + R engage combo if it's one of the things making his winrate so different at various skill levels? Shouldn't you just cut the ult damage and revert it to higher duration?
EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votesWhile I think shuffle is probably the problem nerfing the damage isn't the solution. Its the long range of the move that's a balance issue imo. Azir should get a level 6 power spike like every other mid lane though his ult shouldn't be useless other than peel
Guy Fox Teemo1 votesbecause if they remove then then Azir becomes like even more of a poke bot where the only times he ever uses his R is too, push someone away and thats it. They'd have to buff teh shit out of that if they were to remove the Shuffle.
EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votesPersonally I think it's a mistake to not incentivize risky plays on azir. I think every champ with mobility has that incentive built in, like ezreals e damage, and it's a big part of the fun of the champ.
In fact for your dilemma over buffing ults damage, I'd say the most obvious solution is buffing his e damage instead. That encourages the riskier plays without making him stronger when he just wants to get away from you. I hope you guys seriously rethink possibly removing the shield or otherwise not incentivizing risky play with azir.
I feel pretty strongly that he's healthier and more fun if you're supporting risky all in patterns in some form, as his way to get kills in lane. I don't think it necessarily has to mean supporting the extreme long range dash though. Ie if you reduced his e to one dash but made it deal damage to anyone around the soldier you dash to you could vastly reduce the impact of insec plays where you push enemies towards your team (significantly less potent repositioning) while supporting aggressive dashes into ults used for their burst damage (but you'd more than likely be knocking them away instead of towards your tower unless they severely misposition)
I'm not sure if you can picture what I'm picturing just from my description...
I can also see you guys are talking about how to window his power more, things like what's the right way to fight an azir who's ahead if he has good self peel. Well he's a control mage. The most intuitive answer would be avoid soldiers. Rylais nerf helps with that maybe you should also be looking at the cd on his q? If he uses q to extend his range and or poke you but the cd is 2 seconds longer does that open meaningful counterplay where you can hit him and he can't hit you back nearly as hard for 6 seconds
IxtaliKing6 votesA few months I heard you guys were considering either removing his Shurima shuffle to allow him to be a long ranged hyper carry, or reducing his range and making him a Battle Mage to support Shurima Shuffle. Is it safe now to assume that Riot has decided to go with maintaining his long ranged hyper carry status?
RiotNot Surrendering10 votesNo, we are still exploring several different directions for him and haven't really decided.
IxtaliKing5 votesCan you say how far you are willing to go to make Azir work? Are we potentially looking at new skills replacing old ones?
Silverjust1 votesmaybe you should split azir into 2 champions, one hypercarry and one batllemage
Jmman1 votesI know you have messed with Azir a lot. I just don't understand why you are all bent of fine tuning him when my champ fiddle has been crapped on for years. How about you stop mess with the #biglcsplays and help all the champs that need it.
Supreme Senpai6924 votesI mean it's not a nerf, since it wasn't ever there, but... it's not like Azir is in a good spot right now. If anything, they should add it in, not remove the tooltip.
WTBeGirl100EUhr19 votesIf they think that returning the power elsewhere is a more appropriate change then it's balance. They didn't go "Well we cba to re-instate it" they went "We think that he functions well without this functionality and that he should receive changes elsewhere in his kit if he is not at an appropriate power level."
Serika Zero1 votesexcept he doesn't get changes and still has abysmal win ratio
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesExcept he's getting changes on PBE already...
Serika Zero1 votesyeh right, and those won't break the champion and make him broken again? we both know where its going
Hige16 votesO.o you've been using the champion WITHOUT the bonus health scaling SINCE AUGUST, all they are doing is modifying the tooltip so that the description is accurate. I don't think that making Azir situationally tankier is the answer to his balance problems either way, his gameplay theme is based around his soldiers, not his shield, nor does he need to get facefirst onto anyone to fulfill his role as a mobile mage
Sand Clone17 votesO.o you've been using the champion WITHOUT the bonus health scaling SINCE AUGUST, all they are doing is modifying the tooltip so that the description is accurate. I don't think that making Azir situationally tankier is the answer to his balance problems either way, his gameplay theme is based around his soldiers, not his shield, nor does he need to get facefirst onto anyone to fulfill his role as a mobile mage
you've never played azir have you?
EROTIC RAID BOSS12 votesI'm guessing they decided the HP synergy didn't make sense anyway
sit kid2 votesBecause Azir didnt get HP/level yellows and Rylais
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votesbut you don't want to incentivize going after HP in general when you play him.
Dengeden8 votesHe built Rylai's and that's it. It's not that big a deal. Might as well streamline the champion when they have bugs like those.
10110011100011 votesThat doesn't mean he can't build other AP health items like 
or 
. Considering how shit tier Azir currently is, I'm surprised we're trying to pretend like anything outside of 
and 
are mandatory on him.
Guy Fox Teemo8 votesThe HP on his E didn't make sense anyway and they'd rather add power somewhere else. THey've been doing this for a long time, removing un-needed thing from his kit.
I"d rather get rid of a shitty mechanic, that probably traps players into bad builds.
Sraeg20136 votesThe fuck you expected from Riot?
Vayne's Q started rolling a separate crit chance despite it was never critting before? Let's make it a feature!
TeCoolMage4 votesBecause it's better to remove the parts that don't matter and give compensation buffs than to let Azir continue to have all these different elements that make things confusing in terms of optimizing a build.
I hope they add an AP ratio or something to the shield, or remove it entirely and give a compensation buff elsewhere, so he can get power back in places where it matters (zoning, cc, damage, range)
Sand Clone2 votestbh riot should give Azir's turret taking ability back to give him some midlane pressure vs roamers.
Spoofghoul6 votesno, just no
maybe if turrets where really tough as a unique strenth for azir but as it stands a fart pushes them over
and they canged so with ap you can deal more damage to turrets and azir has high attackspeed
Nilok2 votes~~Side note, as far as I can tell, this bug was privately known by Riot for about 4 months and never publicly announced or was known about until now. There is no information online that I can find that it ever existed, let alone a bug report in august.
I could be wrong, so if anyone can find a dated report of this bug please link me. This all seems rather strange with Riot not only knowing about a bug, but decided to never inform the player base about it, who were making builds based on false information, but also decide not to fix it.
Quite honestly, it undermines a large amount of trust we put into League of Legends if the information being reported by the game is known to be wrong and won't be fixed in a timely manner, or at the very least informing the player base about instead of duping them into testing a possible change.~~ I stand corrected. At least my paranoid mind is at ease about that.
RiotNot Surrendering15 votesWe didn't know about the bug until about a week ago, but it's been on live since around August when we found the root cause.
Elikain11 votesWow, just wow...
This bug was privately known by Riot for about 4 months and never publicly announced or was known about until now?
The fact that you asked if Riot is "hiding" champion bugs from us is just sad... You do know about that Kindred bug in LCS last year that killed that poor Lee Sin with 50% HP on a third attack on her Mounting Dread (E)? That bug was there since Kindred was released but it was super rare and almost never happened, like 99% of the time. The only reason Riot finally knew it happened because it was captured on video, in LCS, which launched an investigation. How many bugs did Azir have on release and Riot was deploying a fix with every patch for him?
It's not about Riot "hiding" the bugs from us, it's about first realizing there is one, replicating it internally, finding out why it happens and then deploying a fix. Is there a reason why would Riot "hide" the bugs from us, other than your "Riot is a shady business" argument?
Sometimes a bug may be giving an advantage in game that's not intended and depending on the severity (and how easy it is to replicate), a champion might be disabled until it is fixed. Or if it's quite hard to replicate, no one would be the wiser until Riot fixes it, at most during the next patch. Oh, and the best part is that at the end of each patch notes, last notes are always about various bug fixes that most people browse through because they're not interested.
The point of a PBE is to primarily test new content for bugs and Riot fixes a lot of problems for the actual Live release. But again, a bug is nothing more than an error in coding that causes unintended things to happen. No one programms a bug into a game, they just happen and bring along unintentional functionality that may be bad for the game. Sometimes, bugs may even expose better functionality that may be fixed by bringing that functionality to Live but i don't think that has happened yet.
XxxLumberJackxxX3 votesTHat isn't what was said at all. THe man said "We found the bug right away and announced what it was and what we did, it was caused by unrelated thing that happened in AUgust. We didn't know AUgust thing caused this thing until this week" Dear god man.
