What if Aatrox's Abilities' Speed Scaled With His Blood Well?

Jeashi·Nov 3, 2015·38 votes·2,081 views

Just as his attack speed is, his Q and E animation speed could scale up with how full his blood well is, this would fit him both thematically, and it would put more power into his kit, but also increase his reliance on Maintaining his Blood Well. Along with this, you could lower the base animation speed if need be. I feel like this would make him feel a lot smoother to play. Maybe it could be only active when you have a full well, or if you have your passive up.

Thoughts?

28 Comments

landonhammockNov 3, 20155 votes

I don't play Aatrox but this seems like it would give a good indicator of when to trade when laneing against him ( similar to gnar rage bar?) and give him a decent buff

kJsNov 3, 20151 votes

It's already this way anyway, in most cases.

You beat Aatrox by punishing him heavily when he's low in Blood Well because he won't have as much AS to heal or damage you as fast with low Attack Speed. So if you ever fight against an Aatrox at lvl 1 and you can deal a lot of damage safely then dish it out before he gets Blood Well stack or else he will start sustaining well. Or when you proc his passive he is low in Blood Well.

If you're a Riven or Darius you can kite him, preventing him from AAing you if you dodge his Q and harass him from range. In Riven's case you stun and run and knock and run. It's quite demoralizing as Aatrox tbh. You can even cancel his Q by hard CCing him, it's sad really.

Carlos ArcherNov 4, 20152 votes

I had a game not long ago, I was aatrox, the other top was trundle, I got a botrk, he had only a cutlass, I charged my well and went for the kill w/ult on....

He procd my passive and I had to flash away...

Aatrox is VERY weak right now

kJsNov 4, 20151 votes

Trundle is one of those champions that are not squishy in lane even if they don't buy a tank item during the laning phase. This is partly because of his ultimate which is excellent for 1v1s. Lane phase is basically 1v1.

Did you make sure to proc multiple Blood Prices? It deals a lot of sustained damage. Did you then switch to Blood Thirsts to avoid proccing your passive? Aatrox can burst but that's really only with his ultimate. Aatrox is predominantly a sustained damage fighter. At least that's how I play with him anyway.

Carlos ArcherNov 6, 20151 votes

I made sure I had all of my win-the-fight conditions: blood well full (and passive up), changed W when below 50% health for the extra sustain, had ult, had the botrk, few minions. Now that i think of it, he may have had not only the cutlass but also 2 daggers or the bow, but i remember him not having the full item.

kJsNov 6, 20151 votes

Damn, that must have been really surprising.

I'll keep an eye out if I ever face a Trundle as Aatrox again.

MLDzXnRRRNov 4, 20153 votes

Aatrox has crap hp and loses 15 % of his hp for Q + E combo. So you have someone with less hp than Kindred, Graves, Kog, Lucian, Draven (everyone knows that the ADCs have crap hp, well Aatrox is even worse than them) who loses 15 % of it just for using two abilities.

His kit looks like Trynda 2.0, but he gets 1shotted.

I also like how RIOT ignores all the Aatrox posts.

kJsNov 4, 20151 votes

Yeah... Tryndamere does everything he does but better. The reason why he's really squishy without items and early is because he's got a revive passive and really strong sustain, stronger than Vladimir (without items).

AlywanNov 4, 20153 votes

Aatrox in S6, without a rework, and with the way things are headed is going to be this:

"Nobody has seen one lately, but they know from their ancestors that he is useless."

HolowHall of HalNov 3, 20152 votes

I would prefer they did an older suggestion (dunno how long ago) in which they gave aatrox the ult sion used to have

MadraNov 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=HolowHall of Hal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ANLjmRuf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-03T18:30:42.893+0000)

I would prefer they did an older suggestion (dunno how long ago) in which they gave aatrox the ult sion used to have

There's a perfectly good reason why Sion doesn't have that ultimate anymore and why they can't give it to someone with a gap closer and built in attack speed from both his passive and his ultimate.

xFrostKnightxNov 4, 20151 votes

I wouldn't really call it a gapcloser or useful seeing how you don't move for the first moment. Even Triss can rocket jump faster than Aatrox can dash. The problem a lot of Aatrox mains have is;

Q - Using this in a fight means you deal less damage while also damaging yourself, when you could AA instead. So Aatrox mains tend to not use this skill when dueling unless they want to interrupt a skill (near impossible, but doable) or chase someone who flashed a wall.

W- mix replies on this, some say because of this he's not a real Aatrox and his whole kit is built around it. People wanted Aatrox's kit to be more like his lore and not a weaker Tryndamere with built in lifesteal.

E - You take more damage than this skill usually deals to the enemy, and unless you build Pen it's not effective to use this for poke this past mid game.

R - A ton of people want this skill changed as with an already weak kit which is dependent on Attack speed to function, he gets shut down by Frozen Heart and Omen.

Passive - There was complains simular to Sion how lategame this passive was near pointless because the enemy gets time for their CD to come off. Along with the new GW as a core item which doubles to weaken his W and revive health.

Overall every Aatrox main hates how he has weak late game, cant use skills in a duel because he kills himself faster and deals less damage, useless passive which does not scale with anything and is dependant on a stat which can be weaken by 2 items. You can't build HP because it is counter productive and all you can build is damage while having the hp to be 3shot by an adc yet not have any burst despite the fact you are walking glass which kills himself just to stick to you (poorly) so he can AA.

When you get attacked by an Aatrox, it always better to kill him than run. Like swatting a fly. If you want to play Aatrox, play Jax.

kJsNov 3, 20151 votes

Not really good at early levels but probably good mid-game and late game. This would weaken his early even more if his cast speeds are slowed down even more. His Q Dark Flight would be way easier to cancel early if that's the case.

He'd be easier to punish as Riven and Darius, lane bullies in general. He already suffers unable to duel against them if taking Blades of Torment. I can however duel a Riven 1v1 with a W start heal from Blood Thirst and burst damage her with well timed Blood Prices. It's risky but it works and it lets me farm in lane at lvl 1 without getting zoned as hard as an E start.

Overall I don't think it would change the problems Aatrox faces that much.

I think if Aatrox got Q resets on kill and assist he'd be more impactful in fights with CC and an Aatrox flying around the battlefield would already satisfy (some of) his lore and theme. Doesn't have to be 100% CD reset, maybe 80% current cooldown reduction.

EDIT: You should probably clarify what you mean by Blood Well scaling. % or Flat? I was thinking you meant flat so late game his animations are seamless but early his animations are still obvious. If it's % then most of my first two paragraphs are pointless and irrelevant.

JeashiNov 3, 20151 votes

If the Animation Speed were to be lowered early, it would be to the point that Blood Price proc+E proc should put it slightly faster than live, while it gets a lot stronger later in the game. Aatrox is not made to win the early game vs. Bullies such as Riven and Darius are going to make life difficult anyways, in those situations, your goal is to out-sustain them and trade in ways that you aren't in danger of getting combo killed. Darius specifically is a really hard match-up though.

As to the CD reset or lower on kill/assist, the only issue I see is that his Q, unlike other resetting abilities provides hard CC. However, I do like the concept, but it also scares me since resets on jumps are notorious for breaking champions. :D

kJsNov 3, 20151 votes

Well an enemy can just stun him or snare him whilst he's casting Q so I don't see it being as strong as Katarina or Yi resets. And I'm glad you do find the reset idea cool. Wish a Rioter who can change Aatrox is reading though.

JeashiNov 3, 20151 votes

Definitely, i don't think it would break him, but I also fear that it wouldn't do enough.

MadraNov 4, 20151 votes

If kills and assists gave Aatrox a reset on his jump, they would have to remove the knock up from it and replace it with a slow. You just can't give a reset mechanic to a move with the strongest form of CC in the game.

kJsNov 4, 20151 votes

It's not like Aatrox brings anything as strong as the current top tier bruisers and tanks anyway.

It's also incredbly hard to knock-up more than one person with his Q and Q can get cancelled if Aatrox is hard CCed during its animation. I don't think it would too strong. I think it would give him a stronger presence in teamfights. If it turns out to be too disruptive then a 50% CD refund would do the trick.

junglerboy16Nov 3, 20151 votes

maybe instead make it so their base cooldowns get reduced by a certain % instead?

AzteryzNov 3, 20151 votes

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111124037/3441652-ibefzmqcb9qe11.gif

perhaps make his q have a cost refund and cd refund on kill/assist but only when hes in his max blood well "rage" mode and this is what im thinking will happen ;o

JeashiNov 3, 20151 votes

If anyone is afraid of having no Well to work with out of coming out of passive, using your Ult after reviving is extremely useful :D

Chicken4dinnerNov 4, 20151 votes

I feel his abilities just don't work with him anyway, he needs a decent rework.

Cloud PotatoNov 4, 20151 votes

Aatrox already suffers from being a ball of stats. This change would remove all counterplay from his abilities, further cementing his identity as a champion you outscale, not outplay. No thanks.

JeashiNov 4, 20152 votes

This change punishes people who don't counter play. With Aatrox's passive, you know that he is looking to fight more, the higher his Blood Well is, except right now, the actual threat provided by a full Blood Well is completely irrelevant because any displacement before his Q lands will completely negate his capability to get in range to efficiently trade, meaning that he can simply get outclassed. This change makes it harder to land the displacement in time, forcing you to respect the filled Well and play around his Well. It also gives you incentive to keep his Well in check, utilizing your base stat advantage over him to zone him whenever possible. Currently you can, as you said, simply outscale him and chill, now you have to actively work to control him if you want to achieve the same goal.

Shield VillainNov 4, 20151 votes

Aatrox has no strong points in the game...like at all. His laning phase isn't anything worth bragging about, his dueling potential is adequate, and his late game is easily one of the worst. Unless you can out play and somehow manage to get maybe 5 kills on your opponent before 10 minutes, you're not going to have a fun time with Aatrox.

All of his abilities are lacking, his W heal really doesn't give him as much as people say. So you're forced to build life steal and a spirit visage to try and buff that a little. Even then it's still nothing like going up against an Olaf.

Aatrox's ult is just an Attack speed steroid with a little range thrown onto it, and some mediocre damage on activation.

48983507DEL1Nov 4, 20152 votes

He is actually pretty strong in the lane, but he has weaknesses to specific champions like Riven. He has a ton of sustain and can cheese really heavily with his W. After the lane tho, he is pretty much a split-push-bot.

He absolutely dominates specific matchups and loses others hard. Against a tanky top laner like Maokai and Tahm Kench, Aatrox can win hard and push until 2+ people come to stop him.

kJsNov 4, 20151 votes

mediocre damage when used against those who buy MR. Squishies don't buy MR and it deals surprising amount of burst to them.

48983507DEL1Nov 4, 20151 votes

I had a few ideas regarding Aatrox. Whenever his Bloodwell is full, he gains additional effects on his abilities.

Q, costing 10% CURRENT HP, could give him a shield for 10% MAX HP. Kinda like how Zac's blobs heal him for MAX HP when they cost CURRENT HP.

W could give him a movement speed buff every time he procs either Bloodthirst or Bloodprice

I would rework his E to be an auto-attack enhancer/reset that slows the target and sends out the blades behind the target to deal the magic damage and slow.

The bonus effect on his E would be a reduced cooldown every auto-attack.

I would rework his R to deal the magic damage, but also give out an aura to nearby allies that increases the amount of healing they receive from all sources by 10/20/30%

Of course, the damage on his Q, E, and Ultimate would be reduced to compensate, but I think it could make him a much better champion while keeping a lot of his identity and gameplay in check.

Also, they need to increase the time it takes for his Bloodwell to start decaying. I can't even go ward my lane without it starting to drain.