Jarvan needs a mega nerf

Zelnick·Aug 13, 2016·4 votes·1,389 views

After hundreds of Jarven games observing him in every elo, he 100% for sure indisputably no-question-in-any-way-shape-or-form needs a nerf, I have seen too many skilless jarvan one-shots, he should not be able to one-shot people that effortlessly especially while not being fed, he does more damage than zed and talon put together in only 1/10th of a second which is exactly what Riot stated they wanted to avoid, he has to have an nerf, he's meant to be a fighter or tank, not the game's most skilless assassin. When Jarvan can go mid too, and win against a variety of mages, that's like zed being able to win as support with a 54% win rate as such. This was a continuous problem in the past they should never, ever, ever, ever buff him for any reason in any way.

30 Comments

OneMustFallAug 13, 20164 votes

He's definitely in my top 150 champions to ban. Hell I would say he's even in the top 6 champs to ban that start with the letter J. Right behind Jhin, Jax, Janna, Jinx and my man Jayce.

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He's definitely in my top 150 champions to ban. Hell I would say he's even in the top 6 champs to ban that start with the letter J. Right behind Jhin, Jax, Janna, Jinx and my man Jayce.

Janna is definitely ban-worthy, basically soraka but with more utility. Jhin also gets banned and has an excessive win rate right now, so glad you agree.

zlumpyAug 14, 20161 votes

I uh...I think you missed the joke there.

ZelnickAug 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I uh...I think you missed the joke there.

No I'm just mocking it because of how poorly constructed it is, from an objective standpoint you didn't get your point across since janna and jhin are some of most often banned champions right now along with being some of the highest win rate champions right now.

http://champions.pickban.com/

FiddlesOnTheRoofAug 13, 20161 votes

LOL. I literally lol'd

BeoridasAug 13, 20162 votes

typical, omg plz nerf full squish j4. I play in high elo, hes not an issue at any rate whatsoever.

btw, a fighter can be played as an assassin if build approprietly, but since j4 is a generalist diver, he can pay for it heavily compared to a proper assassin. Hes not meant to be played as a tank the same way Garen isnt a tank, these are subtle nuances you prolly need to understand before making posts like that. you talk about j4 going mid, so does irelia, wukong, panth...is that a bad thing? design is a complex thing.

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

typical, omg plz nerf full squish j4. I play in high elo, hes not an issue at any rate whatsoever.

Because you obviously don't play with or against him.

{quoted}

typical, omg plz nerf full squish j4. I play in high elo, hes not an issue at any rate whatsoever.

btw, a fighter can be played as an assassin if build approprietly,

Nope, because he's garunteed to kill someone, he never pays the price, that's the issue. Zed does, leblanc does a little bit, fizz does, but never ever jarvan, his damage is just too skilless and too easy.

BeoridasAug 13, 20162 votes

Yes i do have played him AND against him. I have over 6k+ games at league. YOU obv do not understand the nuances of types and subclasses.

You make no sense in your comparaisons.

Zed has a potential of 2 escapes and one slow, LB has potential of two escapes and two hard CC. Fizz...

J4 is a diving fighter. He needs to combo two abilities AND succeed. (above for more info about the class) He isnt garanteed to kill cause if that was true, since his ulti comes every minute or so, then he would have the highest kill avg for the class and lane role. which he does not. Also paying the price means that once you are in, there is no way back immediately. Just like Irelia, xin, panth and nocturne.

When you make baseless and shallow claims like you are doing, Its hard to take it seriously. Im not saying no one every brought out the hidden op from the unknown. That being said however, you bring no stats, no proofs, you have no depth to your claims besides omgz no skillzorz and he insta kill anyone cause his Q is 2k dmg ofc while its point and click even tho its not.

Saying hes an assassin is false, saying hes skillless is a half true in term of skill floor, but is mostly false in skill ceiling, saying he doesnt pay the price is false by design, saying hes designed as a tank is false and ignorant of his core design and how champ design works.

And before you decide to ''try'' to bring proofs. Do try to find out what it should be like.

Bottom line: hes not a tank, isnt designed as one, and unless played full assassin build, his base dmg do not warrant your silly claims. Just looking at champion.gg is evidence enough of all that.

im not trying to be rude, but your claims cannot be be taken seriously. If someone brought nocture is op post the same way you did, even if he WERE op, it would still not be taken seriously.

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

im not trying to be rude, but your claims cannot be be taken seriously.

Not by people who lack a basic understand of the game, no, but I have no regard for what you say anyway, this is more for Riot.

{quoted}

Yes i do have played him AND against him. I have over 6k+ games at league. YOU obv do not understand the nuances of types and subclasses.

Since you clearly don't understand the issue at hand I doubt you have even 100 games. Doesn't matter what other classes there are, what matters is Jarvan is being played as an assassin and extremely effectively which was not intended. If you even clicked on Jarvan's champion info, you'd see it says "tank, fighter" not "assassin, fighter." No matter how you look at it, everything you're saying is completely meaningless.

{quoted}

Bottom line: hes not a tank, isnt designed as one,

Did you even read his champion info? Bottom line: it doesn't matter what you say, what matters is what people do and what Riot says, and Riot says he's a tank/fighter and what people did (until recently) is build him as a tank or fighter which is why Riot allowed him to have that ridiculously overpowered ad-scaling, since most tanks and get some kind of damage scaling from defensive items and most fighters have moderate damage from passives and consistent dps modifiers, which Jarvan has little of. THEREFORE WITH BASIC COMMON SENSE since he is no longer being played like a tank or even a fighter, he should be reworked so that his abilities scale more from health or just plain don't have such high scaling. If Zed had 150% ad scaling league of legends wouldn't exist, yet Jarvan's combo to get to a target and deal his maximum damage output is even quicker than Zed's, he's simply too skillessly overpowered an as assassin and thus Riot needs to change it, same way Riot changes old poppy or old gankplank, it's indisputably, all you have to do is look at the scaling and dps of other assassins to see Jarvan greatly excels above all of them.

Characters are designed to fit specific platstyles and general itemization paths so that Riot can control their balance of gameplay, and Riot always reworks them when they become suited to an unintended playstyle. If you want to play an assassin, you should have the option of playing Zed or Talon or any other character labeled as "assassin," not Jarvan who is clearly intended to be a tank/fighter.

BeoridasAug 13, 20161 votes

your insults are so devoid of meanings and poorly directed, its laughable. If you are going to make a proper ad hominem, make at least an accurate one, qq boy.

The issue at hand is that you show 0, nada, niet complete worthless subjective opinions with no stats or facts to back it up. Doubled by the fact that you do not understand what a subclass is.

YOU said he's meant to be a tank while you do not know what makes a tank--a tank, or what makes a fighter--a fighter. YOU said hes one shotting with no skills (aka point and clicks ) YOU said hes safe and that he DOESNT pay for his all ins. Almost everything on subject was false, half false or ignorant about him. you are just warrior typing omgz op op op one shot. That would be a stupid essay in university, at work, in college, in high school the way you did it.

Now, the issue here, is that you THINK you know all Riot's philosophies on the matter while barely providing actual references with overloaded baseless statements.

First off, you are going on the god damn shop as a basis of your argument...thats sad. Riot said themselves that these are just directions to have an idea but is far from describing a champ and is also fairly outdated. You would be one of the kids who would see tank on vayne and you would somehow believe it. And i thought only Tom cruise could believe crazy stuff. His kit is the underlying definition of who he is, and wanna know something even better, Riot MADE a list of classes and subclasses that you obv didnt read.

Jarvan is a diving fighter, since you are a slow learner, ill say it again: diving fighter. You know what it means? It means they are more squishier fighters who excels in an all in, with some CC, great dmg, and some form of dmg mitigation.

Pantheon can jumps in, cc, has a form of dmg mitigation Irelia,xin,nocturne are the exact same.

Because diving fighter has great initiation tools, they can focus mainly on their engage tools with their tank items in order to survive and have more than one round of spells, or focus to a more assassin build and engage into a target and kill them. One thing they all have in common is the lack of escapes--hence they pay for that sort of build, but the reward can be great if ahead.

An assassin usually have more escape tools that they can use in many forms, they a re more versatile and will NOT usually engage like a diving fighter would. That is the essential thing that is way over your head.

the exemple you give with the scalings is the EXACT reason why hes not a tank, he has no defensive steroids to speak of, lack the cc and his kit has armor shred or form of main dmg tool (like all fighters).

Now, the spot where you could have been right is the items. The issue is, i could easily play assassin braum and it would work, but would that mean that braum is the issue? When tank yi, Maw+sterak grave build were a thing, the issue was hardly the champs (even if a little) but rather the items they synergize with--after all, no champs is fighting with no items. I would actually agree that the pen items are out of line, and is actually making a lot of champions a bit cancer. Heck, tons of adcs build them now. I could then agree that jarvan can be problematic because of the items, but your whole delusion about omgz j4 one shotting, no risk, no consequence build is as false as the sky's distance from the ground.

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

your insults are so devoid of meanings and poorly directed, its laughable.

What's laughable is your insecurity over an objective argument grounded in empirical data and mathematical reasoning.

{quoted}

The issue at hand is that you show 0, nada, niet complete worthless subjective opinions with no stats or facts to back it up.

Except for the tiny part you missed where I did continuously. I'm not stopping you from obtaining the same data that I obtained from Riot indicating Jarvan's role and ability damage and scaling, which I referenced.

{quoted}

Now, the issue here, is that you THINK you know all Riot's philosophies on the matter while barely providing actual references with overloaded baseless statements.

You're simply so inexperienced that you can't understand any of the references.

{quoted}

Now, the issue here, is that you THINK you know all Riot's philosophies

I don't need to think I know, they state it themselves by making announcements in the forums, interviews with the developer teams and reworking characters and patch notes. If you'd been keeping up with it you'd know everything I do.

{quoted}

Jarvan is a diving fighter which not only isn't a formally recognized class under the concensus of the developer team and high elo players but it says right in his champion information that he is a tank. A tank is not an assassin, a tank is a tank. Ergo, he should not have the same combination of dps and diving capabilities as an assassin. Everyone's fine with maokai's root cc, but that's because his root cc doesn't have 150% ap scaling in addition to high base damage.

{quoted}

the exemple you give with the scalings is the EXACT reason why hes not a tank

Not only does Jarvan have a shield with a cc effect, indicating a prolonged battle (not something an assassin wants), but now you're agreeing that he is being played in a way other than what Riot intended, which of course means that it is harder for Riot to balance him. His scalings are allowed because Riot expects him to be a tank or fighter, which is why they labeled him as a "Primary: Tank, Secondary: Fighter" which, if you look at his typical build path in all elos is what happens often.

First, look at talon. His ad scaling never goes above 100%, in fact it's only 30%-75%. Then, look at his base damage, some 30s, some 60s, 120 only for his ult, with his basic attack only dealing 10% more of its base damage and only to enemies who are cc-ed.

Now, we come to Jarvan, who gets at least 70 base damage on his first ability at level 1, 60 for his other already ability and already twice what talon has, with his basic attacking dealing 10% of the target's health, then he gets a free 14% armor penetration (by level 6), extra 17.5% attack speed and a 200 damage ult with 150% ad scaling. You tell me which one of those does greater damage, as practice.

BeoridasAug 14, 20161 votes

The hell, You completely misquoted me. Im not the one that said that.

Jarvan is a diving fighter which not only isn't a formally recognized class under the concensus of the developer team and high elo players but it says right in his champion information that he is a tank. A tank is not an assassin, a tank is a tank. Ergo, he should not have the same combination of dps and diving capabilities as an assassin. Everyone's fine with maokai's root cc, but that's because his root cc doesn't have 150% ap scaling in addition to high base damage.

..... wtf

What's laughable is your insecurity over an objective argument grounded in empirical data and mathematical reasoning.

Objective? which data, show it! which mathematics that you have showed? which empirical data? you just picked the Rito bio in the shop which they admitted themselves of being outdated and wrong. I showed you this

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

And ill even write it down for you since you prolly dindt read it.

Tanks

Vanguards

Malphite Amumu Leona Zac Gragas Rammus Mega Gnar Sejuani Rek’Sai Sion Nautilus Skarner

Wardens

Braum Nunu Tahm Kench Maokai Shen Thresh Alistar Poppy Galio (hybrid Battle Mage)

So no Jarvan 4.

Fighters

Juggernauts

Nasus Darius Mordekaiser Illaoi Trundle Olaf Garen Shyvana Udyr Dr. Mundo Volibear Yorick

Divers

Vi Xin Zhao Nocturne Pantheon JARVAN Wukong Warwick Renekton Elise Hecarim Lee Sin Irelia Aatrox Evelynn Diana

By definition, diving fighters are squishier, all in champs that has a mix of burst/cc/sustain. They ALL have it, read every single name. Even in the riot post you can read them defining each class. Vi has a shield, Xin has heal sustain, Noc has shield, panth has block, J4 has his W and knock up, wukong has his W and ulti etc.. etc.. etc... THATS reference, THATS how riot intend him to be. Ive played since the varus patch btw so cut the bs inexperience and your logical fallacies straw man and ad hominem.

I don't need to think I know, they state it themselves by making announcements in the forums, interviews with the developer teams and reworking characters and patch notes. If you'd been keeping up with it you'd know everything I do.

yea? where, show the proof or it didnt happen. im done with your inexistant facts and random statements. You know nothing but what you want to believe.

The place i agreed with you is that the itemization is actually the issue, in which, divers CAN build more assassin like and pay the price, but these items are too strong atm. Divers usually can build in 3 possible way (off tank, assassin, tank) but the assassin items are stronger.

All these guys in the list have: Hard engage (all ins) little to no escape after engaging, a form of sustain once into the fight (like diana) and the ad fighters all have some sort of armor shred or an execute/burst combo.

they have NO defensive steroid like tanks do. for instance, malphite is a vanguard (do you know what that means?)go search google cpt experienced. But has decent base dmg and 100% ap scaling. hes still a tank tho. He has a form of sustain, lots of debuff/cc AND a defensive steroid(something that boosts his def like his W)

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Vanguards

We like to refer to Vanguards as “offensive tanks.” Vanguards lead the charge for their team and are specialists at getting action started. Their explosive team fight initiation seeks to catch enemies out of position while allowing allies to follow-up to devastating effect.

(have usually defensive steroids, no armor shred and do not excel in sustained extended fights)

Divers

Divers are the more mobile portion of the Fighter class. Divers** excel at singling out high-priority targets** to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world,** but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat** if left unchecked.

ZelnickAug 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The hell, You completely misquoted me. Im not the one that said that.

..... wtf

Objective? which data, show it! which mathematics that you have showed? which empirical data? you just picked the Rito bio in the shop which they admitted themselves of being outdated and wrong. I showed you this

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

And ill even write it down for you since you prolly dindt read it. Amumu Leona Zac Gragas Rammus Mega Gnar Sejuani Rek’Sai Sion Nautilus Skarner Wardens Braum Nunu Tahm Kench Maokai Shen Thresh Alistar Poppy Galio (hybrid Battle Mage)

So no Jarvan 4. Juggernauts Nasus Darius Mordekaiser Illaoi Trundle Olaf Garen Shyvana Udyr Dr. Mundo Volibear Yorick Divers Vi Xin Zhao Nocturne Pantheon JARVAN Wukong Warwick Renekton Elise Hecarim Lee Sin Irelia Aatrox Evelynn Diana

By definition, diving fighters are squishier, all in champs that has a mix of burst/cc/sustain. They ALL have it, read every single name. Even in the riot post you can read them defining each class. Vi has a shield, Xin has heal sustain, Noc has shield, panth has block, J4 has his W and knock up, wukong has his W and ulti etc.. etc.. etc... THATS reference, THATS how riot intend him to be. Ive played since the varus patch btw so cut the bs inexperience and your logical fallacies straw man and ad hominem.

yea? where, show the proof or it didnt happen. im done with your inexistant facts and random statements. You know nothing but what you want to believe.

The place i agreed with you is that the itemization is actually the issue, in which, divers CAN build more assassin like and pay the price, but these items are too strong atm. Divers usually can build in 3 possible way (off tank, assassin, tank) but the assassin items are stronger.

All these guys in the list have: Hard engage (all ins) little to no escape after engaging, a form of sustain once into the fight (like diana) and the ad fighters all have some sort of armor shred or an execute/burst combo.

they have NO defensive steroid like tanks do. for instance, malphite is a vanguard (do you know what that means?)go search google cpt experienced. But has decent base dmg and 100% ap scaling. hes still a tank tho. He has a form of sustain, lots of debuff/cc AND a defensive steroid(something that boosts his def like his W)

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Vanguards

We like to refer to Vanguards as “offensive tanks.” Vanguards lead the charge for their team and are specialists at getting action started. Their explosive team fight initiation seeks to catch enemies out of position while allowing allies to follow-up to devastating effect.

(have usually defensive steroids, no armor shred and do not excel in sustained extended fights)

Divers

Divers are the more mobile portion of the Fighter class. Divers** excel at singling out high-priority targets** to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world,** but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat** if left unchecked.

http://gameinfo.oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/jarvaniv/

There's my data

and not only did Riot state that the list is merely a guideline and that all of those specific categorizations are debatable, you've only shown that Jarvan isn't suppose to be an assassin which is my only point, thank you, now my concerns are even more justified, now there's even more evidence that he's not intended to deal 1000 nearly true damage at level 6 in 1/10th of a second.

And, for the record, I'm not doing your work for you, Riot already displayed their statements, so if you doubt me, I'm not stopping you from getting the information. If you're writing a math paper about calculus you don't have to prove 1+1=2, but you're free to look it up if you doubt it. If you're writing about meteorology you don't have to prove the sky is blue, that info is already verified, but you're free to run your own experiments on it.

BeoridasAug 14, 20161 votes

do you go to university by any chance? Would your teachers accept a statement without any data to back it up? or an essay without references?

So you are doing a donald trump and say: oh well i can make statements all i want but its up to you to prove me wrong? thats the contrairy of any logical and modern analytics. Can you imagine that in the court of law?

According to your logic, i could say the exact samwe thing, Riot displayed their statements about him not being a tank(with proofs i showed you) but im not doing the work for you. you are a special kind arent you?

What i said is that J4 ISNT the issue but the items.

YOU said he isnt paying the price for going squish with no data, YOU said Riot mentioned it as a tank with an outdated link that Riot said doesnt hold value anymore.

Then i bring you these two links and even a list:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

so why you not commenting on it? a Rioter who is part of the Lead Design Team with the support of his team wrote specifically that J4 isnt designed as a tank and that he is a diver which i even described for you. And since you did not comment on it, you know VERY well that you were flat wrong and cannot come up with anything else.

But as far as assassin J4 is concerned, its not an issue as a diver since you potentially pay the price, but he isnt the only one building it.

Vi, noc and ADCs.

Your WHOLE post is about j4 being skilless, which you cannot prove, about him being designed as a tank, which i quote:

Riot has said for awhile now that the class tags are severely outdated and will either be updated or removed in the future to something else.

Now if you want to say that Riot Stattik is a liar and you know better than him, by all means, do it, and send a ticket to Riot Employees to ask why is he classified as a tank in his bio when two months ago the whole Riot team categorized him as a diver (which he always was) A shield, is not the only god damn thing that define a tank, and a tank doesnt have armor shred.

ZelnickAug 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

do you go to university by any chance? Would your teachers accept a statement without any data to back it up? or an essay without references?

So you are doing a donald trump and say: oh well i can make statements all i want but its up to you to prove me wrong? thats the contrairy of any logical and modern analytics. Can you imagine that in the court of law?

According to your logic, i could say the exact samwe thing, Riot displayed their statements about him not being a tank(with proofs i showed you) but im not doing the work for you. you are a special kind arent you?

What i said is that J4 ISNT the issue but the items.

YOU said he isnt paying the price for going squish with no data, YOU said Riot mentioned it as a tank with an outdated link that Riot said doesnt hold value anymore.

Then i bring you these two links and even a list:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

so why you not commenting on it? a Rioter who is part of the Lead Design Team with the support of his team wrote specifically that J4 isnt designed as a tank and that he is a diver which i even described for you. And since you did not comment on it, you know VERY well that you were flat wrong and cannot come up with anything else.

But as far as assassin J4 is concerned, its not an issue as a diver since you potentially pay the price, but he isnt the only one building it.

Vi, noc and ADCs.

Your WHOLE post is about j4 being skilless, which you cannot prove, about him being designed as a tank, which i quote:

Now if you want to say that Riot Stattik is a liar and you know better than him, by all means, do it, and send a ticket to Riot Employees to ask why is he classified as a tank in his bio when two months ago the whole Riot team categorized him as a diver (which he always was) A shield, is not the only god damn thing that define a tank, and a tank doesnt have armor shred.

Either way, the general consensus and Riots intention is that Jarvan isn't meant to be an assassin who can deal 1000 nearly true damage in 1/10th of a second at level 6, nothing you've said is going to get around that and I can't fathom why you're incapable of comprehending that. He also still builds like a tanky fighter most typically which is his intended play-style if you simply look at the most common build paths and the fact that he's still labeled as a fighter after all this time. Tanky was definitely his intended play-style, but Riot is willing to negotiate after seeing his usage change and make some updates for the new meta which is no longer tanks as it was in season 5, but regardless what I've said still stands. If it didn't, he never would have been labeled as a tank in the first place, just like zed is never going to be renamed "marksman" or "support."

Now, if he was fed like 4/0, ok, I could see some insane burst potential, but not before that point, not even a fed jax or pantheon would deal as much damage as him.

BeoridasAug 14, 20161 votes

subclasses didnt exist back then, thats the only reason why.

The reason why they were added is that two champions who had vastly different kits and purposes couldnt be both defined as tanks or fighters etc..

The issue with j4 is that he has all the fighter/off tank kit. Which by definition is better off, building some health and mitigation since he's an all in guy. But divers are also what they are and have assassin patterns.

PERSONALLY speaking, i think they should scale down his scalings and add more base dmg to remove some sustain dmg on top of his burst.

Historically speaking, he was tankier also back when his flag gave armor. Then, Riot said he was designed as a top laner and should promote that gameplay instead and added more frontloaded dmg on his passive which made him more of a diver even tho he mostly already was. (back when that subclass wasnt a word)

But Duskblade is cancer as hell. Im fine with youmuus but i think they should remove the active.

ZelnickAug 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

subclasses didnt exist back then, thats the only reason why.

The reason why they were added is that two champions who had vastly different kits and purposes couldnt be both defined as tanks or fighters etc..

The issue with j4 is that he has all the fighter/off tank kit. Which by definition is better off, building some health and mitigation since he's an all in guy. But divers are also what they are and have assassin patterns.

PERSONALLY speaking, i think they should scale down his scalings and add more base dmg to remove some sustain dmg on top of his burst.

Historically speaking, he was tankier also back when his flag gave armor. Then, Riot said he was designed as a top laner and should promote that gameplay instead and added more frontloaded dmg on his passive which made him more of a diver even tho he mostly already was. (back when that subclass wasnt a word)

But Duskblade is cancer as hell. Im fine with youmuus but i think they should remove the active.

You're still not getting it: Subclasses being introduced doesn't mean he's now an assassin. Sub classes are "sub" classes, part of another class, so if they actually finalize all their classifications and he is formally recognized as a diver, that's still a type of fighter (part of his original intended playstyle) which is not an assassin.

BeoridasAug 14, 20161 votes

i think thats where you arent getting it.

A subclass means its different from the class they originate from but have most of its attributes.

Divers

Divers are the more mobile portion of the Fighter class. Divers excel at singling out high-priority targets to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world, but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat if left unchecked.

He is ALREADY recognized as a diver. hello, i showed it to you?!

2 months ago- http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

Divers:

Jarvan.

I never said he was an assassin, i said divers have an assassin pattern but they pay the price for it as they are all in-ers.

ZelnickAug 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I never said he was an assassin

Alright then you agree, having an assassin like pattern doesn't mean they deal 1000 nearly true damage at level 6 in 1/10th of a second, more than talon, just because they're labeled as a fighter, as I kept saying.

BeoridasAug 14, 20161 votes

My point still stand 100%.

and unless you have tangible proof. I highly doubt that 1000 true dmg at lvl 6 is accurate, specially at 0.10 sec. If it was really the case then sure, i would agree, but its not and you know it.

Its not because a champ isnt an assassin that he cant build like one. Its just a risky playstyle. I build wukong and pantheon like this, but it can cost me big time.

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Hes not meant to be played as a tank the same way Garen isnt a tank,

Obviously roles change. He's definitely meant to soak damage for the team with the way his kit is designed, which is exactly what a tank does. Garen is also meant to tank but he is also meant to charge and dive, but still, he's meant to absorb damage while doing so otherwise he'd have a lot more range and a dash.

BeoridasAug 13, 20161 votes

garen is a juggernaut, subclass of fighter, which means dealing lots of dmg with little cc or mobility. J4 is designed as a diving fighter the same way xin, less so irelia, panth and nocture. They all have assassin pattern but usually have no escape so they have more upfront dmg as a result. they are different.

a proper tank design would be sion or alistar, they have usually serious defensive steroids, some way of sustain and loads of cc. which j4 only has one of if he does a proper chain of two of his abilities. Assassin have usually a lot of escapes and sometimes an execute, which diving fighters does not.

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

garen is a juggernaut, subclass of fighter, which means dealing lots of dmg with little cc or mobility. J4 is designed as a diving fighter the same way xin, less so irelia, panth and nocture. They all have assassin pattern but usually have no escape so they have more upfront dmg as a result. they are different.

a proper tank design would be sion or alistar, they have usually serious defensive steroids, some way of sustain and loads of cc. which j4 only has one of if he does a proper chain of two of his abilities. Assassin have usually a lot of escapes and sometimes an execute, which diving fighters does not.

In the exact same way as Jarvan, assassins often have to use their "escape" as an engage, Fizz definitely isn't safe when he uses his full combo. But even so, all of what you're saying is still completely irrelevant. Click on the champion info for Jarvan, does it say "assassin" anywhere? Nope, it doesn't. It's extremely obvious that he's meant to be played as a tank/fighter and it's worrying that you can't grasp that basic concept. Since he is no longer being played as a tank/fighter but rather excels at an assassin-like playstyle even better than zed or talon or fizz, he needs to be reworked or nerfed.

BeoridasAug 13, 20161 votes

as stated above, you are very sad if your whole argument is based on the shop description hence ignoring his kit purpose, to whom hes compared to and Riot's own admission about the shop bio and their own list of subclasses.

irrelevant also doesnt mean what you think it means. im astonished how all these things are beyond you. lets just drop it before u embarass yourself even further.

heck the worst part is that you are like: agree with me or you know nothing of the WHOLE GAME. very very sad fellow. you have my sympathies.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list for your education

Meep ManAug 13, 20161 votes

Epitome of hyperbole

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMoEaL7Y,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-13T02:27:46.611+0000)

Epitome of hyperbole

I wish it was a hyperbole, but unfortunately it's mathematically literal. I've seen Jarven in bronze, silver, gold, plat, diamond, customs, LCS, he needs a nerf, that one-shot capacity is just too skilless and I'm finally taking a stand against it after both skillessly winning with it and skillessly losing against it, it takes at least a 3/0 talon to do the damage Jarvan can do at 0/3.

Irelia BotAug 13, 20161 votes

I would not get upset about his ult's base damage and AD ratio getting nerf if it had better tank utility.

.75 root and increases damage to the enemies in it by something like 5/10/15%

He is a tank/fighter not a fighter/assassin

ZelnickAug 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMoEaL7Y,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-13T23:11:16.700+0000)

I would not get upset about his ult's base damage and AD ratio getting nerf if it had better tank utility.

Same here, just think that should be reworked a bit to fit the role of a tanky fighter, sacrificing damage for cc or scaling through health.

KETSU0Aug 13, 20161 votes

Lol, boards know balance.

I Lam HaiJul 28, 20171 votes

Anyone who says j4 doesnt need a nerf is brainless...a 1 item j4 can literally flag jump and ult to kill someone, nothing else, not even an auto, literally just that, I just seen one outdamage a veigar...name one other jungle that can 3 shot anyone on the team? the closest ive seen to that is a nasus with a ton of stacks but theres literally no counter play to that, e,q,r and your dead, at best you have a split second to flash away and his ult comes up before your flash