CC vs skill

Ash Lockheart·Dec 6, 2015·2 votes·634 views

Seeing how league is going. I find myself picking CC champs more than others. I see so many champs to choose from that have no CC that I can't really play because they just get shut down from champs with CC. I remember Kat being a very skilled champ to play because she has no CC and you have time every thing perfect. So I guess what I am asking is riot wanting more plays or more champs that just CC and stomp the enemy team. From what I see in the game. CC = win most of the time rather than plays or thinking smart. The game feels like who ever can land the most CC will come out with the win. So I guess I want to know is that what riot wants it to be? I mean how do you guys want the game to be? You want it to be over base off of the champ select? That's just how I am seeing each match now a days. I just want to see what players want the game to be base off of.

9 Comments

KougaDec 6, 20153 votes

I think your premise is a little bit off. Having CC in your kit doesn't necessarily mean the champ doesn't require skill. Not having CC doesn't mean that they do. So first off, don't purely associate Skill and CC as if they are mutually exclusive. It isn't just enough to have a stun, but also to know when and where to use it, how to prioritize peeling for your ADC or trying to lock down theirs, etc.

The tier of play as well as Solo v. Premade can make a difference too. Speaking generally, higher tier players and pre-made teams of any tier will have more teamwork, communication and/or coordination than their lower tier or solo counterparts. CC can be very effective for a coordinated team, where it doesn't do much to help you solo if you cannot get in sync with your team. At the Pro level of play, Worlds saw a ton of heavy CC junglers; Rek'Sai, Elise, etc. However you may not see those champs very often at all during Solo Q play; instead you might see more Lee Sins and similar "Carry Junglers" who can apply a lot of pressure on their own even without team coordination.

So I guess I want to know is that what riot wants it to be?

Well, Riot has been more consistent about giving "windows" of opportunity including their CC. Tahm has very strong CC potential, but he also has to get stacks on you. Illaoi has almost no CC (her E has a potential slow, and that's it) but she has a ton of zone/AoE damage that lets her disrupt fights just as much as a CC ult would. Riot has been very determined to make the majority of abilities be Skill-Shot based, rather than targeted, as well as other venues for counterplay.

I mean how do you guys want the game to be? You want it to be over base off of the champ select?

I really don't think it is purely Champ driven. I value and have consistently seen player skill and teamwork trump champ select. My favorite and probably best Champion I play is Ezreal - he has been my favorite Champion ever since he was released. And Ezreal has no CC of any kind. Yet among the ADCs he has been one of the most consistent in terms of play and strength. He is rarely seen as OP (occasionally he breaks a few items.. coughruneglaivecough) but he is also never really trash tier either. He's been pretty much immune to the wild shifts in meta compared to most of his peers.

Ash LockheartDec 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think your premise is a little bit off. Having CC in your kit doesn't necessarily mean the champ doesn't require skill. Not having CC doesn't mean that they do. So first off, don't purely associate Skill and CC as if they are mutually exclusive. It isn't just enough to have a stun, but also to know when and where to use it, how to prioritize peeling for your ADC or trying to lock down theirs, etc.

The tier of play as well as Solo v. Premade can make a difference too. Speaking generally, higher tier players and pre-made teams of any tier will have more teamwork, communication and/or coordination than their lower tier or solo counterparts. CC can be very effective for a coordinated team, where it doesn't do much to help you solo if you cannot get in sync with your team. At the Pro level of play, Worlds saw a ton of heavy CC junglers; Rek'Sai, Elise, etc. However you may not see those champs very often at all during Solo Q play; instead you might see more Lee Sins and similar "Carry Junglers" who can apply a lot of pressure on their own even without team coordination.

Well, Riot has been more consistent about giving "windows" of opportunity including their CC. Tahm has very strong CC potential, but he also has to get stacks on you. Illaoi has almost no CC (her E has a potential slow, and that's it) but she has a ton of zone/AoE damage that lets her disrupt fights just as much as a CC ult would. Riot has been very determined to make the majority of abilities be Skill-Shot based, rather than targeted, as well as other venues for counterplay.

I really don't think it is purely Champ driven. I value and have consistently seen player skill and teamwork trump champ select. My favorite and probably best Champion I play is Ezreal - he has been my favorite Champion ever since he was released. And Ezreal has no CC of any kind. Yet among the ADCs he has been one of the most consistent in terms of play and strength. He is rarely seen as OP (occasionally he breaks a few items.. coughruneglaivecough) but he is also never really trash tier either. He's been pretty much immune to the wild shifts in meta compared to most of his peers.

So far with what you talking about I don't see it at all in matches. I also did not at all talk about CC champs not having skill. I did say champs that have no CC Required more skill and timing. Your post feels more like your trying to pick apart my post rather than just say how you would like to see the game based around, and say what champs you see yourself picking more often.

VesarixxDec 6, 20152 votes

Inb4 you're torn apart by the boards community for saying Kat requires skill.

Ash LockheartDec 6, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raith alghul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMmmN7Rp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-06T04:43:13.373+0000)

Inb4 you're torn apart by the boards community for saying Kat requires skill.

Are you even going to say how you want the game to be or are you going to troll?

VesarixxDec 6, 20152 votes

That wasn't trolling, I play Kat and yeah she requires skill, but when was the last time someone posted that on the forums/boards and got a positive response?

http://i.imgur.com/wJ5fcq8.png

Whut Thuh Dec 6, 20152 votes

im not sure you get the concept of a wombo combo... also every cc beyond pantheon taric and a few others have targeted hard cc and pantheon and taric both have long cds and pantheon suffers from dramatic mana sustain issues

Ash LockheartDec 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

im not sure you get the concept of a wombo combo... also every cc beyond pantheon taric and a few others have targeted hard cc and pantheon and taric both have long cds and pantheon suffers from dramatic mana sustain issues

Are you saying you don't understand what I am talking about in my post? I mean I am talking about CC champs vs the Champs that don't really have CC and were the game is going. I don't think my post is that hard to get.

The Sword SaintDec 6, 20152 votes

Having a large cc disadvantage isn't an auto loss except in low elo.

Honestly, my main is fiora and she only has cc when she's parrying someone else's cc. I play kat all the time. Orianna is one of my go to mids, and outside of her ult she doesn't really have cc either.

CC doesn't win games, but it does make it easier to teamfight and since that's all people do in low elo it has a disproportionate association with winning. Having 5 aoe cc ultimates isn't gonna work against a splitpush/poke/siege team that doesn't get caught out for example.

Ash LockheartDec 6, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AMmmN7Rp,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-06T06:47:15.664+0000)

Having a large cc disadvantage isn't an auto loss except in low elo.

Honestly, my main is fiora and she only has cc when she's parrying someone else's cc. I play kat all the time. Orianna is one of my go to mids, and outside of her ult she doesn't really have cc either.

CC doesn't win games, but it does make it easier to teamfight and since that's all people do in low elo it has a disproportionate association with winning. Having 5 aoe cc ultimates isn't gonna work against a splitpush/poke/siege team that doesn't get caught out for example.

So you don't think there are champs selected more often because others have less of a chance of winning? I mean I see some champs play less in all games cause they just can't do much. In other words I see a small window of champs played most of the time because of ether High CC, so much in there kits, there damage keeps going up, and so on. And that's in high or low ranks, and normals. I just don't see the game being open to all champs, but normally just a few. I even see many videos showing all that has changed.