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Vayne counters.

Bârd··1 votes·2,857 views

Vayne is completely reliant on her basic attacks to deal damage. Condemn technically does damage, but it's pretty damn weak until it's maxed out.

As a result, anyone who can stop her from attacking gets right up here at the top of the list.

Teemo has his blind. It's QSS-able, but forcing her to burn QSS for Teemo Q leaves her vulnerable to everything else. Lulu similarly has polymorph, which serves as a disarm. Yasuo destroys her basic attacks. Jax Pantheon Shen ignore her basic attacks. Malphite Nasus Nunu Fiora slow her attack speed. item 3110 item 3143 item 3075 also help a lot. Obviously, any champion with hard CC fits here.

Vayne is, first and foremost, a duelist. As a result, anyone who makes a 1v1 impossible is good.

Shen Galio Nocturne TwistedFate TahmKench can force a numbers advantage anywhere with their ults. Ivern can give every melee champion on his team a gap closer if he lands his Q in a teamfight. This forces Vayne to fight everyone at once in the teamfight, rather than breaking it up into an extended series of duels as she normally likes to. Trundle Fiora Tryndamere are all notoriously difficult to duel.

Vayne is a squishy, short ranged hyper-carry. As per usual for this type of champion, CC and burst damage are the single best ways of shutting her down in a teamfight.

Talon Zed Kassadin Katarina Kayn Diana Evelynn Rengar Khazix can all kill Vayne in an instant. Lissandra Fiddlesticks Malzahar Ryze TwistedFate all have reliable CC to hold Vayne down in every fight where she doesn't have QSS up. Syndra has the gameplay button. Veigar is less reliable than Syndra, but seeing as he can trap Vayne with E and kill her with Q-R, I feel like he belongs here. Cassiopeia Singed slow her and stop her from Tumbling. This means that almost all skillshot CC or nuke becomes reliable with one of these two on your team. Malphite Nautilus Vi Hecarim Rakan Gnarand most other champions who like diving the back line can dive onto Vayne. Notable exceptions are Camille , who gets condemned into walls if she hookshots at Vayne and gets condemned out of her ultimate, and JarvanIV whose ultimate Vayne tumbles out of and condemns him into. LeeSin Gragas Blitzcrank all royally fuck her positioning.

Vayne (in bot) has a very weak early game. Champions that take advantage of this counter her.

Caitlyn Lucian Corki Draven Tristana Kalista Blitzcrank Thresh Rakan Zyra Zilean Sona Nautilus bully the living shit out of Vayne, snowballing their advantage to a victory in the mid game (except Cait, who can only hope that she's set Vayne far enough behind to make up for her own shitty mid game). Xayah is normally OK in lane. If paired with Rakan, the two undergo DBZ Fusion to become a singular insane lane bully. KogMaw Twitch Xayah Jinx just take the farm lane and match Vayne in mid-late game teamfights, making sure not to get into a 1v1 situation against her. XinZhao LeeSin Nidalee Rammus Hecarim have great early ganks, allowing them to shut Vayne down. Something worthy of note here is that VAYNE is the only one in that lane with a bad early game. Her support is still very much a threat. Don't tower dive a Morgana just becuase her ADC is Vayne.

Silver bolts get a lot of talk for how you "can't counter it". Well that's just wrong.

TahmKench Fizz Vladimir can go untargetable, forcing Vayne to switch targets and waste a bolts proc. MonkeyKing Shaco Khazix can go invis for a similar effect. Kayle Taric render people invulnerable, which can be helpful. I'm just gonna put Aatrox here to represent champions with healing, and Karma to represent champions with shields. Both of these increase your effective HP without increasing your maximum HP, meaning they work against bolts. Props to Zilean, whose ultimate is essentially a heal for 1.5-2k HP. Down that road, item 3190 item 3401 item 3053 item 3107 and every lifesteal item in the game will help you. Also, here's Leblanc to represent every champion who likes dipping in and out of fights who hasn't been represented.

OK that's about all the credit Silver Bolts deserved. Vayne does 71% physical damage, so armor still helps (just not as much as it does against other AD's).

Malphite Rammus Sejuani Taric are the best champions if you want to stack armor. Alistar just ignores 80% of her physical damage.

A big portion of Vayne's strength comes from her ability to go invisible in teamfights. Even with the removal of actual pink wards, you can counter this.

summoner 14 DOES NOT REVEAL VAYNE. That said, it's a damage over time effect. Because of that, it causes shimmer on every tick, allowing you to keep track of Vayne. Any champion with a DoT or sufficiently large splash attack can reveal Vayne in this way. Anivia Brand Cassiopeia Darius Fiddlesticks Fizz Malzahar MissFortune Mordekaiser Rumble Singed Teemo Trundle Twitch Udyr Vladimir Karthus Ziggs Katarina Gangplank can do that. Caitlyn Fizz Illaoi Karma Kled LeeSin Lulu Nidalee TwistedFate Morgana can all provide true sight on Vayne. Rengar Poppy Thresh Zyra can also do it, but it's a lot trickier. Fiddlesticks crow can bounce to units he can't see. I don't know if Pyroclasm, Ricochet, Bouncing Grenade, or Ebb & Flow work in a similar way, but if so that'd help a bit. item 3364 will reveal Vayne's position. item 3092 will reveal Vayne, but getting to go on who you want is tricky. item 2013 is incredible if you're lucky enough to get it off Kleptomancy, but don't rely on it.

Miscenanious

Mordekaiser isn't great at killing Vayne, but if he and his team can pull it off, Vayne is a pretty good Ghost to have. You can do baron easily with it. Taliyah Go ahead. Tumble. Olaf Ornn Morgana Fiora Sivir Nocturne can ignore condemn. This is useful. Gangplank can ignore condemn's stun. This is less useful, but still useful. TahmKench brings a buddy to gank with him, so he can actually turn a 1v1 into a 1v3 (or a 1v4 if Shen is tagging along... OR A 1v5 IF YOU EAT AN ULTING KALISTA). Kled can't reliably dive onto Vayne since his ult WILL get bodyblocked. That said, there's nothing quite like an entire team running at 950 movement speed towards a Vayne. Sivir is similar to Kled, but more boring. Chogath Malzahar Soraka have silences. As it turns out, Vayne isn't very mobile if she can't tumble. Yorick not 100% sure. Vayne might be able to tumble out of his W like she can J4 ult, but then again maybe not. His W might not count as terrain for Condemn, since he can walk through it, but maybe it does. Fuck it.

There may be other counters, but that'll do for now.

Hope this helps.

21 Comments

thefourtysn1 votes

You forgot her early, and mid game isn't her strongest, and where she really shines is in Late (if she ever gets there...) So the enemy team has time to shut her down early before she goes crazy late.

cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes

username is Bard

plays top and support

hasn't played Vayne since febuary 2017

But yeah sure I'm just a Vayne OTP defending his baby.

Everything else you've just said is about as valid as your first point.

cheenis boosh1 votes

{quoted}

username is Bard

plays top and support

hasn't played Vayne since febuary 2017

But yeah sure I'm just a Vayne OTP defending his baby.

Everything else you've just said is about as valid as your first point.

Except you really did exaggerate everything in all of your points, if you actually PLAYED any of the champions you've mentioned, it's a lot harder to do the shit that you're talking about, remember, they REMOVED VAYNE COUNTERPLAY, which means you can't fucking spot her while shes invisible, so doing almost anything is fucking impossible before she 3 shots you. You also mentioned mostly 1v1 scenarios, and when you did mention a teamfight, literally nobody is going to fucking go in on Ivern's Q because the window for dashing in on her is so fucking small that you'd have to have quite the reaction time and ping, which most players don't have. Also, if everybody blows their shit on Vayne, it leaves the mid laner, top laner, OR jungler to kill your entire team, considering one of them would be high damage, brand, karthus, yi, illaoi, etc. So how is everything in my other points wrong? Please EXPLAIN, instead of just saying shit like "no u" or "ur wrong." It's unprofessional, and if you're trying to be, not even funny.

Bârd1 votes
  1. No, no I didn't exaggerate. Almost all of the counters listed above are base interactions that are not open to interpretation; Vayne can't tumble away if she's in Singed's adhesive, Vayne will die if Syndra gets her combo off, Vayne will be all but useless if she get's Withered and can't cleanse it. Anything past that are simple power levels, which are only slightly more open to interpretation; Xayah-Rakan is a powerhouse lane even at level 1, and can easily win fights throughout lane if Vayne's support isn't a hard counter.
  2. Stealth counterplay has not been removed. Any champion with a True Sight ability (which I have conveniently listed in the above post) can straight up see Vayne through invis. Any champion with a DoT or large splash attack can reveal Vayne's position through shimmer. Any champion with neither of these can buy a red trinket to reveal Vayne's position.
  3. No, most of my advice does not revolve around "1v1's". Exactly three champions in the above post (Trundle, Fiora, Tryndamere) were recommended as champions who could reliably duel a Vayne. The rest of the advice is expressly about AVOIDING a 1v1 situation with a Vayne, because that's where she's strongest.
  4. If you aren't a good enough player to capitalize on the good plays of your allies, that's on you, not on me or Riot.
  5. First, you probably shouldn't have to burn EVERYTHING on Vayne. She's strong late game, but she only has one QSS and a small HP pool. One CC to force QSS, a second to hold her down after, and some follow up damage. That said... If a teamcomp has multiple hard carries, it's gonna have weaknesses elsewhere. Having more than two screws you completely, since you won't have enough CC or tanks to keep your carry lineup safe. Of the champions you listed, only Karthus and Yi are true carry champions. Champions like the other two are better classed as semi-carries; certainly dangerous, but they're either too unreliable or aren't good enough at killing certain types of champions. Both Illaoi and Brand are very unreliable. Illaoi suffers especially from being kited or just straight up walked away from. Brand mostly struggles to kill mobile champs who dodge his spells and bursty champions who kill him first, not to mention Adaptive helm. Say their second carry is their mid. That limits it to Azir, Corki, Cass, Karthus, Kayle, Lucian, Mordekaiser, Riven, Ryze, Taliyah, Teemo, Viktor, and Yasuo. Most of those champions are hard countered by Adaptive Helm, meaning they can't kill your tanks. This leaves us with Kayle, Lucian, Mordekaiser, Riven, Viktor, and Yasuo. Of those, Kayle and Morde still suffer from Adaptive Helm, just not nearly as much as the others. Every true carry mid that didn't make the second list is dealt with fairly easily once Vayne is gone; have your Adaptive-helm clad tanks hold them down while your team kills them with whatever damage you have left. Kayle is dangerous. If she burned her ult to try and stop you from killing Vayne, you're likely down a member; either a tank or the diver who tried killing her through Kayle ult. That said, she's squishy without her ult, so she'll drop fast to focus fire, just don't let your main DPS be the one getting hit with the fire sword. If she didn't get to ult Vayne, you likely haven't lost that member. Threaten Kayle to force her to ult herself, and somehow pause her damage (Locket, Exhaust, Stun, whatever) while you can't damage her. If you're past the mid game, Lucian shouldn't be a threat. If you're still in the mid game, and their Lucian isn't useless for whatever reason, he's probably a higher priority than Vayne at that point. Mordekaiser is simple; kite his ass and whatever you do, DON'T GIVE HIM A GOOD GHOST. If you do, this is what happens. If the enemy Riven isn't a god, she's probably feeding because she went mid Riven. If she IS a god, hold onto your butt. Save locket to block Riven's burst combo and try to keep her off your DPS. In this scenario, the Riven might have target priority over Vayne. A good Viktor is terrifying. I wouldn't prioritize him over Vayne, but absolutely make sure you have some burst damage and CC left over, since he can kill a squishy assailant in Q-Auto-E come late game, and can kite out most tanks. If the Yasuo is bad, you've already won. If the Yasuo is good, see what I said about Riven. I don't feel like staying here to outline specific counterplay on carry tops/junglers, but you get the idea.
cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes

So you're gonna ask for an explanation, and then pussy out because you can't back yourself up?

lul

cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes

You're right, I'm not going to give an explanation.

  1. No, no I didn't exaggerate. Almost all of the counters listed above are base interactions that are not open to interpretation; Vayne can't tumble away if she's in Singed's adhesive, Vayne will die if Syndra gets her combo off, Vayne will be all but useless if she get's Withered and can't cleanse it. Anything past that are simple power levels, which are only slightly more open to interpretation; Xayah-Rakan is a powerhouse lane even at level 1, and can easily win fights throughout lane if Vayne's support isn't a hard counter.
  1. Stealth counterplay has not been removed. Any champion with a True Sight ability (which I have conveniently listed in the above post) can straight up see Vayne through invis. Any champion with a DoT or large splash attack can reveal Vayne's position through shimmer. Any champion with neither of these can buy a red trinket to reveal Vayne's position.
  2. No, most of my advice does not revolve around "1v1's". Exactly three champions in the above post (Trundle, Fiora, Tryndamere) were recommended as champions who could reliably duel a Vayne. The rest of the advice is expressly about AVOIDING a 1v1 situation with a Vayne, because that's where she's strongest.
  3. If you aren't a good enough player to capitalize on the good plays of your allies, that's on you, not on me or Riot.
  4. First, you probably shouldn't have to burn EVERYTHING on Vayne. She's strong late game, but she only has one QSS and a small HP pool. One CC to force QSS, a second to hold her down after, and some follow up damage. That said... If a teamcomp has multiple hard carries, it's gonna have weaknesses elsewhere. Having more than two screws you completely, since you won't have enough CC or tanks to keep your carry lineup safe. Of the champions you listed, only Karthus and Yi are true carry champions. Champions like the other two are better classed as semi-carries; certainly dangerous, but they're either too unreliable or aren't good enough at killing certain types of champions. Both Illaoi and Brand are very unreliable. Illaoi suffers especially from being kited or just straight up walked away from. Brand mostly struggles to kill mobile champs who dodge his spells and bursty champions who kill him first, not to mention Adaptive helm. Say their second carry is their mid. That limits it to Azir, Corki, Cass, Karthus, Kayle, Lucian, Mordekaiser, Riven, Ryze, Taliyah, Teemo, Viktor, and Yasuo. Most of those champions are hard countered by Adaptive Helm, meaning they can't kill your tanks. This leaves us with Kayle, Lucian, Mordekaiser, Riven, Viktor, and Yasuo. Of those, Kayle and Morde still suffer from Adaptive Helm, just not nearly as much as the others. Every true carry mid that didn't make the second list is dealt with fairly easily once Vayne is gone; have your Adaptive-helm clad tanks hold them down while your team kills them with whatever damage you have left. Kayle is dangerous. If she burned her ult to try and stop you from killing Vayne, you're likely down a member; either a tank or the diver who tried killing her through Kayle ult. That said, she's squishy without her ult, so she'll drop fast to focus fire, just don't let your main DPS be the one getting hit with the fire sword. If she didn't get to ult Vayne, you likely haven't lost that member. Threaten Kayle to force her to ult herself, and somehow pause her damage (Locket, Exhaust, Stun, whatever) while you can't damage her. If you're past the mid game, Lucian shouldn't be a threat. If you're still in the mid game, and their Lucian isn't useless for whatever reason, he's probably a higher priority than Vayne at that point. Mordekaiser is simple; kite his ass and whatever you do, DON'T GIVE HIM A GOOD GHOST. If you do, this is what happens. If the enemy Riven isn't a god, she's probably feeding because she went mid Riven. If she IS a god, hold onto your butt. Save locket to block Riven's burst combo and try to keep her off your DPS. In this scenario, the Riven might have target priority over Vayne. A good Viktor is terrifying. I wouldn't prioritize him over Vayne, but absolutely make sure you have some burst damage and CC left over, since he can kill a squishy assailant in Q-Auto-E come late game, and can kite out most tanks. If the Yasuo is bad, you've already won. If the Yasuo is good, see what I said about Riven. I don't feel like staying here to outline specific counterplay on carry tops/junglers, but you get the idea.

I already did.

GodlyBane1 votes

too bad these counters are only a fantasy...

GodlyBane1 votes

btw, tanks are the worst vs vayne.. but wait so are squishies.. hmm

Alex h87211 votes

1 of your team's bans is the greatest counter to vayne

cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes
  1. Name one example where I cited this.
  2. If you're going to insult my debate skills, you should first work on your own. You are a walking embodiment of the ad hominem fallacy, and fail to supplement this with any actual contribution to your own side. Your argument boils down to willful ignorance and personal attacks.
  3. Are you admitting that I would a moron if I didn't use the strategies I listed above? If so, I agree fully; their effectiveness is pretty obvious, so it would take a moron not to put them to use.
  4. Yes, I do use my own advice. As a result, Vayne is no more a problem to me than any other carry.

Now, If you aren't actually going to contribute anything of value, I'd appreciate it if you stopped spamming the dead thread.

cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes

Look at your own comments.

You just described the way you've been acting here; like a %%%%.

Now, stop spamming the dead thread.

cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes

One of us is racking up reports for harassment and spam, with records that back them.

One of us is eating popcorn, watching as the other appears to regress to playground antics.

Being louder and and more obscene does not make you correct, only less pleasant.

cheenis boosh1 votes

[deleted]

Bârd1 votes

munch

munch

munch

cheenis boosh1 votes

{quoted}

munch

munch

munch

Why are you arguing with yourself? ;)

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